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  • planetmars wrote: View Post
    It's not so much the Celtics.. its the Raptors that I'm a little worried about. Casey's still here but now without Tucker who really saved our asses after that trade was made.

    The Raptors started off like gang busters last year and had one of the best offenses ever.. but then everything was falling apart until the trade happened. We won't get lucky with any in season trade this year so we have to hope to hell the team can survive if something bad happens. The best thing going for the Raptors again is continuity.. that's something the Celtics won't have.. but the schedule looks tough early on so we'll see what happens.

    Hoping for the best but expecting some hard/tough times this year.
    The only reason we started sliding is cause we started losing players to injuries. PJ did not save us. Raps fans always over hyping role players. Serge Ibaka is more important to the D than PJ. I'm not worried at all. Combo of Casey/Deebo/Lowry have proven they can consistently win 50 games. Now you add Ibaka to that core...

    Celtics have 4 players returning. Celtics really weren't that good last year overall. IT would save them with his late games heroics. Regular season or playoffs raps will slap Celtics. Rapstors strenght is thier biggest weakness. Raps excel at attacking the paint. They expect a big man rotation of Horford/Baynes/Morris to stop that? That's honestly laughable.

    Sent from my LG-H831 using Tapatalk
    @Chr1st1anL

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    • Chr1s1anL wrote: View Post
      The only reason we started sliding is cause we started losing players to injuries. PJ did not save us. Raps fans always over hyping role players. Serge Ibaka is more important to the D than PJ. I'm not worried at all. Combo of Casey/Deebo/Lowry have proven they can consistently win 50 games. Now you add Ibaka to that core...

      Celtics have 4 players returning. Celtics really weren't that good last year overall. IT would save them with his late games heroics. Regular season or playoffs raps will slap Celtics. Rapstors strenght is thier biggest weakness. Raps excel at attacking the paint. They expect a big man rotation of Horford/Baynes/Morris to stop that? That's honestly laughable.

      Sent from my LG-H831 using Tapatalk
      No way. PJ was way more important to the defense. The reason Ibaka's stats at the 5 spot look so good is because PJ played many of those minutes at the 4 next to him.

      That's not to say we'll fall off without him, but he was a huge reason our D was so good the 2nd half of the season.

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      • Chr1s1anL wrote: View Post
        The only reason we started sliding is cause we started losing players to injuries. PJ did not save us. Raps fans always over hyping role players. Serge Ibaka is more important to the D than PJ. I'm not worried at all. Combo of Casey/Deebo/Lowry have proven they can consistently win 50 games. Now you add Ibaka to that core...

        Celtics have 4 players returning. Celtics really weren't that good last year overall. IT would save them with his late games heroics. Regular season or playoffs raps will slap Celtics. Rapstors strenght is thier biggest weakness. Raps excel at attacking the paint. They expect a big man rotation of Horford/Baynes/Morris to stop that? That's honestly laughable.

        Sent from my LG-H831 using Tapatalk
        Like I said earlier H2H I take the Raps. But by end of season I think Celtics will have the better record. Hope I'm wrong on the second point but I guess we'll have to wait and see what happens.

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        • My concern is with the SF position. As good as I think Norm is, I don't like the idea of a guy his size playing starter minutes in a position where he's out sized. That's going to take a toll on him physically. If they had someone who could take some of the defensive burden off him, that would bump up my expectations. But, with Bruno's development (or lack of), and OG coming off injury and being a rookie, you sort of have to consider the Raps placing 3rd behind the Cavs and celts, don't you?

          If OG is that dude, Norm can come off the bench and play both wing spots, and CJ Miles can stretch the floor. If not, I have my concerns

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          • tDotted wrote: View Post
            No way. PJ was way more important to the defense. The reason Ibaka's stats at the 5 spot look so good is because PJ played many of those minutes at the 4 next to him.

            That's not to say we'll fall off without him, but he was a huge reason our D was so good the 2nd half of the season.
            blackjitsu wrote: View Post
            My concern is with the SF position. As good as I think Norm is, I don't like the idea of a guy his size playing starter minutes in a position where he's out sized. That's going to take a toll on him physically. If they had someone who could take some of the defensive burden off him, that would bump up my expectations. But, with Bruno's development (or lack of), and OG coming off injury and being a rookie, you sort of have to consider the Raps placing 3rd behind the Cavs and celts, don't you?

            If OG is that dude, Norm can come off the bench and play both wing spots, and CJ Miles can stretch the floor. If not, I have my concerns
            This is why I'm worried about that combo 3/4 spot for us. The only guys who have the combination of size/speed/some shooting in theory to play that are Bruno and OG. Bruno is a G-League level player at best and isn't even that good there. OG is coming off an injury and a rookie

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            • Shaolin Fantastic wrote: View Post
              Actually I can absolutely declare myself right when I say it is false that Irving "contributes to losing not winning" because it is completely false and incorrect and I've provided more than enough evidence to show that.
              Do we need any more evidence than this that Kyrie Irving contributes significantly to losing? Kyrie sat a few of those games with LBJ, but still.... this is borderline horrific.

              BOSTON -- The Cavaliers are 4-23 over the last three seasons when LeBron James doesn't play.


              http://www.cleveland.com/cavs/index....uble_anot.html

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              • golden wrote: View Post
                Do we need any more evidence than this that Kyrie Irving contributes significantly to losing? Kyrie sat a few of those games with LBJ, but still.... this is borderline horrific.



                http://www.cleveland.com/cavs/index....uble_anot.html
                That doesn't mean that Kyrie contributes to losing not winning. Stop ignoring the statistics I've posted.

                The Raptors had a better winning percentage without Lowry than with him last year. Does he contribute to losing not winning?

                Kyrie is a better version of the type of player DeRozan is, and has a game that translates better to the playoffs than Lowry's does. If he's a player that contributes to losing not winning then I'm not sure there are very many players that don't contribute to losing.

                Anthony Davis has been on losing teams his whole career. He is better than everyone in the east save LeBron, does he contribute to losing not winning?

                The Heat were ~.500 without LeBron. Did D-Wade and Bosh contribute to losing?
                Last edited by Shaolin Fantastic; Thu Sep 7, 2017, 03:34 PM.

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                • Shaolin Fantastic wrote: View Post
                  That doesn't mean that Kyrie contributes to losing not winning. Stop ignoring the statistics I've posted.

                  The Raptors had a better winning percentage without Lowry than with him last year. Does he contribute to losing not winning?

                  Kyrie is a better version of the type of player DeRozan is, and has a game that translates better to the playoffs than Lowry's does. If he's a player that contributes to losing not winning then I'm not sure there are very many players that don't contribute to losing.

                  Anthony Davis has been on losing teams his whole career. He is better than everyone in the east save LeBron, does he contribute to losing not winning?
                  You like statistics? Hard to ignore these......

                  Before James’s return in 2014, the Cavaliers were outscored by at least 5.1 net points per 100 possessions with Irving on the court, roughly the same production we expect from a team that wins 25 to 27 games a season. In 2014-15 Cleveland had a net rating of plus-0.9 with Irving on the court and James on the bench. The next season that declined to minus-0.5 and then again to minus-8 in 2016-17, a mark lower than the 26-win Los Angeles Lakers (minus-7.2 net rating) last season. When Irving was without the services of James and Kevin Love, the team’s net rating dropped even further to minus-12.8.

                  Per ESPN’s Real Plus Minus in 2016-17, which estimates a player’s on-court impact on team performance, measured in net point differential per 100 offensive and defensive possessions, after adjusting for teammates and opponents. He ranked 34th in 2013-14, the season before James decided to come back home.

                  His overall value above a replacement player (2.9 VORP) ranked 14th among all guards qualifying for the scoring title last season, with the top three players, Chris Paul, Steph Curry and Russell Westbrook, all proving they can be the star of the show. He ranked 9th in VORP at the position (minimum of 5,000 minutes played) during his first three seasons in the NBA.



                  https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...=.4acce3d08bb6

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                  • golden wrote: View Post
                    You like statistics? Hard to ignore these......






                    https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...=.4acce3d08bb6
                    Go have a look at the roster that a 21 year old Kyrie was playing with.

                    We're sitting here talking about how a nearly 25 year old Powell and Wright have so much potential, but Kyrie can't have improved at all from his 3rd fucking year in the league to now.

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                    • Shaolin Fantastic wrote: View Post
                      Go have a look at the roster that a 21 year old Kyrie was playing with.

                      We're sitting here talking about how a nearly 25 year old Powell and Wright have so much potential, but Kyrie can't have improved at all from his 3rd fucking year in the league to now.
                      It's not just 21-year old Kyrie. Losing is a trend that has followed Kyrie his entire career except when he's on the court with one of the greatest players of all time, Lebron James. The macro (wins) and micro (net pts/possession) statistics are pretty conclusive.

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                      • golden wrote: View Post
                        It's not just 21-year old Kyrie. Losing is a trend that has followed Kyrie his entire career except when he's on the court with one of the greatest players of all time, Lebron James. The macro (wins) and micro (net pts/possession) statistics are pretty conclusive.
                        Go anywhere besides a Raptors fan site where we hate Boston and keep making false and outlandish claims about them and say Kyrie contributes to losing not winning. See how far you get with that terrible argument.

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                        • As per Woj---potential draft lottery reform:

                          http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/2...d-17-18-season

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                          • Shaolin Fantastic wrote: View Post
                            Go anywhere besides a Raptors fan site where we hate Boston and keep making false and outlandish claims about them and say Kyrie contributes to losing not winning. See how far you get with that terrible argument.
                            This is the same emotional argument that people made in favor of volume scorers like Antoine Walker and Jerry Stackhouse, before advanced stats became available to the general public. Fans are a lot more sophisticated these days so I think you'd get a fair amount of people agreeing with you, as long as you backed it up with solid data, which I just did.

                            edit: Btw, I like Brad Stevens and find it hard to hate Boston since KG & Pierce left.
                            Last edited by golden; Thu Sep 7, 2017, 04:25 PM.

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                            • Rudy Bargnani wrote: View Post
                              As per Woj---potential draft lottery reform:

                              http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/2...d-17-18-season
                              Proposed: no team can pick in the top 3 in consecutive years.

                              I like that one and I hope they accelerate that for approval immediately. Prevents the Celtics from getting another top 3 next year from the Nets.
                              Last edited by golden; Thu Sep 7, 2017, 04:25 PM.

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                              • Rudy Bargnani wrote: View Post
                                As per Woj---potential draft lottery reform:

                                http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/2...d-17-18-season
                                I like having similar odds for the #1 pick for the worst 3 teams and smaller gaps between those teams and everyone else.

                                I don't know if I like that second proposal of not allowing teams to get the #1 pick in b2b years. That usually doesn't happen all to often anyway. Philly only got the #1 pick once (Simmons) and had to trade to get the #1 pick this year. Minny is the only team I can think of that got the #1 pick in b2b years.

                                Are people really pissed off at Minny? That franchise hasn't made the playoffs for over a decade and its not because they're trying to be intentionally bad. They're just bad (well maybe not this year).
                                Last edited by planetmars; Thu Sep 7, 2017, 04:44 PM.

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