Everything 2017 Off-Season

[TrueTorontoFan]

Two questions:

1) What if we resign Ibaka and Tucker and roll with that?
2) I have talked myself into a potential rebuild. Is it really the worst. Is there some how we can do it and keep Demar?

[Jclaw]

The Carroll issue is definitely a problem. But do you view him differently if he comes of the bench with Powell as the starter? Previously, I think they have not wanted to disrespect Carroll in favor of a rook but I think that ship has sailed on both ends. Powell may be small but he guarded Giannis and Lebron at least as well or better than Carroll. Problem spending $16 million dollars on a bench player? But Powell is making little. Just think of it as paying $16 mill + for the SF position. Might work. Might not be the best plan but doesn't it offset the loss of a first round pick or prospect you would likely have to attach to Carroll to dump him?

[MixxAOR]

Two questions:

1) What if we resign Ibaka and Tucker and roll with that?
2) I have talked myself into a potential rebuild. Is it really the worst. Is there some how we can do it and keep Demar?

Nah I think Derozan doesn't want to be a part of rebuild. He wanted to be traded if Lowry was dealt to Knicks i think

[Barolt]

Two questions:

1) What if we resign Ibaka and Tucker and roll with that?
2) I have talked myself into a potential rebuild. Is it really the worst. Is there some how we can do it and keep Demar?

I know at least a few will disagree with me here, but, if it's a rebuild, I don't want DeMar to stay. This isn't about personal feelings about his game either, it's simply he eats a lot of offensive possessions and if we're in a rebuild I want to give the young guys as many touches/minutes as possible to see what they can develop into.

[slaw]

Two questions:

1) What if we resign Ibaka and Tucker and roll with that?
2) I have talked myself into a potential rebuild. Is it really the worst. Is there some how we can do it and keep Demar?

1) Not sure how that happens if no Lowry. Why would Ibaka stay?
2) I can't wrap my head around blowing up a 50+ win team that is still probably the second best team in the conference. I can't imagine Derozan wanting to spend the prime of his career playing on a ~30-win team. No one here, if they were in his position, would want to.

[DanH]

Two questions:

1) What if we resign Ibaka and Tucker and roll with that?
2) I have talked myself into a potential rebuild. Is it really the worst. Is there some how we can do it and keep Demar?

1) We are starting with 81M committed. So if you can get Ibaka and Tucker for, say, 30M combined, then you've got another 10M (roughly the MLE) before you hit the tax. But if Lowry is walking, I'd be smashing this thing to bits.

2) I agree with others saying that DeMar would not be happy losing. He'd be the one big opportunity for making moves for futures as well, to kickstart the rebuild.

[lewro]

I'm kinda happy getting my grassroots/development fix from watching 905.
Raps have been shit for so long that I'm happy to have some good playoff matches vs teams that we can beat/be competitive.
Maybe it's better to tank/rebuild in a few yrs? Seems like Philly and the Celts (both in our Division) have there draft chests fully loaded for the next few yrs. Maybe we cash out Lowry/DeMar/Ibaka half way through their contracts (assuming they resign).

[Uncle_Si]

Maybe we could do a full squad trade with the Bucks and just add a couple 3 point shooters from there. (Coach included).

That's the fastest way to rebuild IMHO.

[CalgaryRapsFan]

I'm kinda happy getting my grassroots/development fix from watching 905.
Raps have been shit for so long that I'm happy to have some good playoff matches vs teams that we can beat/be competitive.
Maybe it's better to tank/rebuild in a few yrs? Seems like Philly and the Celts (both in our Division) have there draft chests fully loaded for the next few yrs. Maybe we cash out Lowry/DeMar/Ibaka half way through their contracts (assuming they resign).

What's the point of waiting, if a rebuild is the ultimate strategy?

First of all, the value of the outgoing assets will be diminished, since they'll be older and controllable for a shorter period of time. Plus there's the inherent risk of injury.

Second, if a rebuild implies getting younger, why not start accumulating assets (ie: prospects & picks) now so they can not only start learning the Raptors playbook/culture sooner, but also begin developing a chemistry (on and off the court) with their teammates more quickly?

Unless you see this team competing for the championship in the next couple seasons, I fail to see a benefit to postponing the inevitable.

[Ebonhawke]

Had a thought cross through my mind this morning (and have been busy the last few days, so haven't had time to go through all the post-season discussion yet - although I have stuck my nose in the politics thread!), so forgive me if this has been implied / stated

In Masai's presser, he quoted

“Yes. Yes. I’m going to build all the scenarios and put them in front of ownership. I think we owe it to everything, we owe it to ownership, to the organization, to the fans. I think it’s something that we have to do, because sometimes when you look at it, what chances do you have now? And do you plan for five years from now?"

Remember that the Raptors and Leafs share an ownership group - the Leafs generated a lot of excitement with Leafs fans with a group of younger players (Matthews, Marner, Nylander, Kapanen) that made the playoffs (of course, somewhat unexpectedly for some), and with a team that was well below ($10M) the salary cap in the NHL ($74M).

Assuming that Masai puts the full array of options on the table as part of his discussions with MLSE, it's not inconceivable that the ownership group transposes the situation with the Leafs to that of the Raptors.

If Option A was to resign Lowry, Tucker, and Ibaka, but knowing that the decision will put the team in 'cap hell' for the next three years, producing a team that would consistently make the playoffs, but would only advance to the second or third round (depending on matchup), but didn't really have a chance to make the Finals, let alone win a championship (and because they were in cap hell, as well as their record ensuring that they would always be picking at the late end of each draft, finding a way to surmount the 'good team' obstacle would be challenging)

If Option B was to commit to a development/youth movement, whereby the team may miss the playoffs for a couple of years, but that's more 'exciting' (ie ball movement / non-iso), with a team that's well under the cap ...

I don't know the answer, but I can certainly see the possibility of MLSE strongly considering Option B, even if simply based on what their experience has been with the Leafs. Had the Leafs languished in the bottom of the league this year, this option would be less likely, but....

Again, just something that crossed my mind

[planetmars]

What's the point of waiting, if a rebuild is the ultimate strategy?

First of all, the value of the outgoing assets will be diminished, since they'll be older and controllable for a shorter period of time. Plus there's the inherent risk of injury.

Second, if a rebuild implies getting younger, why not start accumulating assets (ie: prospects & picks) now so they can not only start learning the Raptors playbook/culture sooner, but also begin developing a chemistry (on and off the court) with their teammates more quickly?

Unless you see this team competing for the championship in the next couple seasons, I fail to see a benefit to postponing the inevitable.

Well 2/3rds of that group are free agents, and can return no value to the team if released. S&T's are atypical these days. So bring everyone back and trade them a year from now. That's what I'd try to do. Lowry's or Ibaka's values will be much higher a year from now when they are on both long term deals than they would be today. Can start the rebuild Boston style instead of Philly style.

[JamesNaismith]

Well 2/3rds of that group are free agents, and can return no value to the team if released. S&T's are atypical these days. So bring everyone back and trade them a year from now. That's what I'd try to do. Lowry's or Ibaka's values will be much higher a year from now when they are on both long term deals than they would be today. Can start the rebuild Boston style instead of Philly style.

Huh?!

In what world is an older Lowry and Ibaka more valuable?!

Lowry is already breaking down pretty much on a yearly basis by the time Playoffs come and Ibaka has the best fake ID in the league because there is absolutely no way he is any younger than 30 and I actually believe he is same age as Lowry at best (go watch his decline athletically, that doesn't happen to a player ENTERING his prime ie/ DeMar and Ross). In a year teams will know they only have a couple more good years at best out of these guys. These guys are win NOW moves, not long term. Also if they fail in what we're trying to acheive that would mean they have disappointed and their values would also decrease from that.

[planetmars]

Huh?!

In what world is an older Lowry and Ibaka more valuable?!

Lowry is already breaking down pretty much on a yearly basis by the time Playoffs come and Ibaka has the best fake ID in the league because there is absolutely no way he is any younger than 30 and I actually believe he is same age as Lowry at best (go watch his decline athletically, that doesn't happen to a player ENTERING his prime ie/ DeMar and Ross). In a year teams will know they only have a couple more good years at best out of these guys. These guys are win NOW moves, not long term. Also if they fail in what we're trying to acheive that would mean they have disappointed and their values would also decrease from that.

Well they have NO value today.. so 1 year into a 4/5 year contract is enticing.. especially for mid market teams who have problems attracting free agents.

[Mack North]

JJ Redick could be available. New NBA, let's go!

[Jclaw]

Had a thought cross through my mind this morning (and have been busy the last few days, so haven't had time to go through all the post-season discussion yet - although I have stuck my nose in the politics thread!), so forgive me if this has been implied / stated

In Masai's presser, he quoted

“Yes. Yes. I’m going to build all the scenarios and put them in front of ownership. I think we owe it to everything, we owe it to ownership, to the organization, to the fans. I think it’s something that we have to do, because sometimes when you look at it, what chances do you have now? And do you plan for five years from now?"

Remember that the Raptors and Leafs share an ownership group - the Leafs generated a lot of excitement with Leafs fans with a group of younger players (Matthews, Marner, Nylander, Kapanen) that made the playoffs (of course, somewhat unexpectedly for some), and with a team that was well below ($10M) the salary cap in the NHL ($74M).

Assuming that Masai puts the full array of options on the table as part of his discussions with MLSE, it's not inconceivable that the ownership group transposes the situation with the Leafs to that of the Raptors.

If Option A was to resign Lowry, Tucker, and Ibaka, but knowing that the decision will put the team in 'cap hell' for the next three years, producing a team that would consistently make the playoffs, but would only advance to the second or third round (depending on matchup), but didn't really have a chance to make the Finals, let alone win a championship (and because they were in cap hell, as well as their record ensuring that they would always be picking at the late end of each draft, finding a way to surmount the 'good team' obstacle would be challenging)

If Option B was to commit to a development/youth movement, whereby the team may miss the playoffs for a couple of years, but that's more 'exciting' (ie ball movement / non-iso), with a team that's well under the cap ...

I don't know the answer, but I can certainly see the possibility of MLSE strongly considering Option B, even if simply based on what their experience has been with the Leafs. Had the Leafs languished in the bottom of the league this year, this option would be less likely, but....

Again, just something that crossed my mind

While I see the way to connect the two, the damage the Leafs caused en route can not be glossed over. While they did do one proactive tank job 2 years ago to get Matthews, they were just sort of plain bad for many years before that and they did well with those draft picks. This is on a background of being terrible for over a decade (lock out seasons aside). The Raptors could not survive this the way the Leafs did.