Everything 2017 Off-Season

[Scraptor]

Even worse. You have to pick the right draft position within the right year within the right decade, or else some other team gets Lebron. Isn't that basically what Casey, DeMar and Kyle just said out loud? And people think tanking is actually a 'strategy'? lol. Hope is a strategy for some, I suppose.

No different than hoping a capped-out team with marginal trade assets and late first round picks will somehow magically secure a star necessary to compete with true championship contenders.

The difference being drafted players are under team control for much longer than pieces added via free agency or trade.

[DanH]

Lowry: either resign or try to get Phi or Spurs to do sign and trade for access to the 5th year
SI and Pj: try to bring back
Put everyone on the wire at next years deadline or next summer. This was a really bad year to fall apart. Keep the younger core, which is way over valued on this site, and try to pick up young talent and picks at the trade deadline, or next summer. I agree with those who want to rebuild, but not at the price of letting everyone walk this summer.

Sign and trade does not give access to the 5th year. Sign and trade deals are identical to the deals another team can offer, presuming they have cap space. There is no benefit to the player in sign and trades anymore. The only upside to the receiving team is if they don't have cap room - the sign and trade then allows the team to sign a player they otherwise couldn't. Almost all the benefit goes to the sending team - assets in return for someone they were losing anyway. With the imbalance in benefit to sign and trades now, they basically never happen anymore. There have only been 3 league-wide by my rough count since 2014.

[Deems]

Wow I just saw DeRozan's and Lowry's comments on how if we had Lebron we would've won. WHEN THE HELL DID WE BECOME THIS SOFT???? This is more reason for me to commit to a re-build. Don't yall see maybe the reason we aren't great in the playoffs is due to the other teams not respecting us; which in turn leads to having full out confidence before the series starts that we are beatable.

Theres no way Cleveland shoots 47% on contested 3's without knowing we're soft ass punks that wilter. This is bigger than X's and O's of basketball, this is being a sheep among wolves.

[Nilanka]

Yeah if Lowry walks, I imagine Ibaka and Tucker go as well. If this happens, and you decide to build with DD, I think your best case scenario is the last two years of the Trailblazers. Maybe Wright or Powell develops like CJ McCollum into a MIP candidate and Bruno+Poeltl+Siakam develop into solid rotation players. With a new coach this could still be fun to watch, and maybe you nail a couple lowkey signings like Aminu or Crowder for Boston, but that would require some serious luck to get to a position to win a championship.

I mean maybe you believe strongly that Wright will turn into a legit starter with an actual training camp and off season free of injury, and Powell thrives with extra minutes. If one of the rookies thrive and look like starters and you end up like a 4 seed maybe you sell Paul George that he is the missing link considering the Raps would undoubtedly have cap space next off season. Obviously that is super unlikely, but if Kyle walks I would try this and reassess at the All Star break; tank if results aren't great or hold on if you are a playoff team.

This is far more reasonable and likely to work than tanking for 4-5 years. Can't believe anyone around here thinks that's a viable option.

And win 45 games tops. Why is this considered a better alternative than flat out tanking?

Really, the tanking/anti-tanking debate comes down to whether one, as a fan, is comfortable with "competing" without a cornerstone player to build around. If so, then by all means stick with the current core and feel surprised when we're inevitably outclassed by better talent in the playoffs. Or sacrifice 3-4 years, cheer on some kids, and at least put yourself on the right path to one day compete for a championship by building around a player who is truly worth building around.

In the 22 years of this franchise's existence, we've only ever had 1 worthy player of building around. And predictably, we have nothing to show for it.

[special1]

Everything 2017 Off-Season

And win 45 games tops. Why is this considered a better alternative than flat out tanking?

Really, the tanking/anti-tanking debate comes down to whether one, as a fan, is comfortable with "competing" without a cornerstone player to build around. If so, then by all means stick with the current core and feel surprised when we're inevitably outclassed by better talent in the playoffs. Or sacrifice 3-4 years, cheer on some kids, and at least put yourself on the right path to one day compete for a championship by building around a player who is truly worth building around.

In the 22 years of this franchise's existence, we've only ever had 1 worthy player of building around. And predictably, we have nothing to show for it.

Are you saying that we never tried to tank in our history?

Bryan Collangelo didn't try to tank?

Lemme guess, we didn't do it properly right? lol. This time the balls will bounce our way.....

We tried tanking and what do we have to show for it? Ross and JV.

We got lucky in the draft and got the number one pick and who did we select? Andrea Bargnani

You expect us to give up a 50+ win team for hope?

We'd still have a chance to draft the next Lowry, Ginobli, Milsap, Draymond Green, etc.

I mean we had the 9th pick in last year's draft and selected Poetl (who I think can be a good player).....Nowitzki was picked with the 9th pick. Kobe was picked with the 13th pick, Kawhi was picked with the 15th pick.

All those picks were had through trades.

You don't need to tank to get a superstar and it's been proven over and over again.

If you like to cheer for some kids, go watch high school, College or D-League games.




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[slaw]

And win 45 games tops. Why is this considered a better alternative than flat out tanking?

Really, the tanking/anti-tanking debate comes down to whether one, as a fan, is comfortable with "competing" without a cornerstone player to build around. If so, then by all means stick with the current core and feel surprised when we're inevitably outclassed by better talent in the playoffs. Or sacrifice 3-4 years, cheer on some kids, and at least put yourself on the right path to one day compete for a championship by building around a player who is truly worth building around.

In the 22 years of this franchise's existence, we've only ever had 1 worthy player of building around. And predictably, we have nothing to show for it.

I can only speak for myself but no one has ever clearly explained to me the tanking "strategy"? Perhaps it's unfair to put it in quotation marks because I suppose it is a strategy of sorts.

Maybe the better way of looking at it is: how are you going to implement the strategy? Yes, I understand you lose a lot of games but then what? What happens when you don't land a generational player? For one year? Two Years? Three Years? Four Years? Ten Years? What then? Do you keep losing? If you land a bunch of really good players do you trade them all and start over? If not, why not? Wouldn't it make sense to do so? While you are doing this, what is happening to your ability to attract and develop coaches, management, players and your fanbase? Would one even care?

And, even if you get your generational talent, what's the plan afterward to recover from years of losing? What infrastructure has been built around the next great player because it would seem to me that the answer is zero (e.g. Philly and NOP).

So, again, I could be convinced that a complete tear down is in order if you have a 7-11 seed that is getting worse but I really struggle with blowing up a top-4 seeded team that has won a lot of games in order to pray for ping pong balls. Management would have to really sell me as a fan that there was a really smart, logical, short term and long term implementation plan before I could get behind that with this current team.

[tDotted]

Tanking is for losers.

[Jclaw]

Just sitting here waiting for the Masai presser. Have seen him give several of these before. Always excited to hear some news and then not even disappointed, because it's so normal, to not hear anything. Yet here I am again. Anyone else with a similar affliction?

[Nilanka]

I can only speak for myself but no one has ever clearly explained to me the tanking "strategy"? Perhaps it's unfair to put it in quotation marks because I suppose it is a strategy of sorts.

Maybe the better way of looking at it is: how are you going to implement the strategy? Yes, I understand you lose a lot of games but then what? What happens when you don't land a generational player? For one year? Two Years? Three Years? Four Years? Ten Years? What then? Do you keep losing? If you land a bunch of really good players do you trade them all and start over? If not, why not? Wouldn't it make sense to do so? While you are doing this, what is happening to your ability to attract and develop coaches, management, players and your fanbase? Would one even care?

And, even if you get your generational talent, what's the plan afterward to recover from years of losing? What infrastructure has been built around the next great player because it would seem to me that the answer is zero (e.g. Philly and NOP).

So, again, I could be convinced that a complete tear down is in order if you have a 7-11 seed that is getting worse but I really struggle with blowing up a top-4 seeded team that has won a lot of games in order to pray for ping pong balls. Management would have to really sell me as a fan that there was a really smart, logical, short term and long term implementation plan before I could get behind that with this current team.

I've always believed that if you can reach the conference finals, you're good enough to compete for a championship. That all it takes are a few lucky breaks (a extra foul called, a crucial play executed, etc.) to advance. But this assumes that the games are close and competitive, which wasn't the case in our last 2 matchups vs. the Cavs. Which leads me to believe that the Raps aren't as close to competing for a championship as I would've thought.

So what do we do now? Do we bring the same core back, with minor adjustments in roster, style and strategy? Sure, I might be convinced this is a sound approach depending on how this summer plays out.

As for tanking, if Masai believes this is the best approach (for the record, I think this is highly unlikely), yeah, I think you sell all assets (DeRozan, Valanciunas, Carroll, Cojo, and let Lowry, Ibaka, 2Pat and Tucker walk), and plan to bottom out for at least 3-4 years, hoping to land an all-world talent with one of the next 3-5 picks you have available. With the 905 team in place, we now have the infrastructure to cultivate and nurture young talent. We just need to make sure that our Big Club head coach, and 905 head coach are on the same page (whoever they may be).

If after 3-4 years, we haven't found that player, then you survey the market, and re-evaluate your strategy. And either continue bottoming out, or attempt to build on the fly (in the same way the Raptors did over the past 4 years).

[Nilanka]

Tanking is for losers.

Technically, there are 29 losers every season. So what are we going to do to help our chances of winning a ring?

1. Continue building around good, but not great players.
2. Try and land great players through the draft, and build from there.

Perhaps the 2004 Pistons represent a 3rd option. But I'm willing to write them off as an anomaly, rather than consider them a useful blueprint to team-building.

[Jclaw]

Whoa! I take it back. Angry Masai is here. "A culture reset"?!

[rocwell]

[Nilanka]

Masai says it's not "realistic" to expect all 4 free agents (Lowry, Ibaka, Tucker, Patterson) to be back

— Josh Lewenberg (@JLew1050) May 9, 2017

[Jclaw]

"Style of play" is being mentioned a lot. Even specifically "1 on 1" play

[DanH]

Masai is hedging a bit here and there, but he does not sound happy to sit on his haunches this off-season.

Going after play style big time here. Does not seem to like the ISO ball.