Everything 2017 Off-Season

[Chr1s1anL]

Didn't the Raptors have an interest in Noel a while back? I could see JV in a Mav's uniform, as their centre piece to build around. Noel can be that hustle defensive guy Raps are looking for. No idea if a sign and trade is possible here.

https://basketball.realgm.com/wireta...With-Mavericks

This is what dreams are made of.

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[Shaolin Fantastic]

Wait, seriously? Ibaka/Vuc started the first 16 games of the season. Ibaka/Biyombo started the next 23 games. Ibaka/Vuc started 17 more games after that.

Also, where the heck is this logic when judging Poeltl versus JV?

Umm, I didn't even finish writing my post. I was going to explain further but decided to write something else, I suggest you go back and look before losing it on me.

[DanH]

Umm, I didn't even finish writing my post. I was going to explain further but decided to write something else, I suggest you go back and look before losing it on me.

My apologies for reading what you posted and responding to what you posted. I should definitely not do that anymore, just in case you edit your post and change what you say.

[Shaolin Fantastic]

My apologies for reading what you posted and responding to what you posted. I should definitely not do that anymore, just in case you edit your post and change what you say.

Apology accepted man.

[LJ2]

It's possible. I just don't see why those two veteran defenders would perform so terribly just because of those factors. And if so, why would a guy like Vucevic somehow have more success when paired with one of them, rather than the two together? Like, Ibaka/Vuc posted a 105 DRTG, while Ibaka/Biyombo posted a 112 DRTG. That's quite a contrast, considering the defensive reputations of Vuc and Biyombo. For the record, the opposite pairing case holds up as well - Biyombo/Vuc played less, but managed a 102 DRTG to that 112 DRTG Biyombo/Ibaka pairing. All of the pairings were terrible on offence, too, to be fair, so that end is probably more to do with the young guards running the offence. But defensively... hard to make the argument.

That's a great question. Vuc, the weaker defender of the three, posted better DRTG with either of Biyombo/Ibaka than Biyombo and Ibaka playing together. I mean doesn't that signal that it could have been a system issue? Now I'm really curious why Biyombo and Ibaka were such a poor combo. Could it have been the size each gives up as a C, or that Biyombo was perhaps is better suited coming off the bench? Won't have that problem with Noel.

[BadDinosaur]

Apology accepted man.

Lol. Sarcasm isn't for everybody...

[Shaolin Fantastic]

I really don't understand this concept of Noel and Ibaka being a terrible fit together as starters. Both guys can guard the 4 and 5 effectively. Both are extremely mobile bigmen who protect the rim very well (Ibaka not as well as his younger days, but he's still good there). They aren't elite rebounders, but the combined rebounding of Noel/Ibaka is definitely better than last year's main 4-5 lineup of Patterson-JV. Offensively Noel won't demand touches and Ibaka spaces the floor really well, and defensively we'd almost never be caught in a bad matchup even if we were playing 2 bigs.

My issue would be the lack of diversity in scoring in the non-Lowry bench units, but that's already going to be the case with JV starting and not coming off the bench like I've suggested anyway.

[DanH]

That's a great question. Vuc, the weaker defender of the three, posted better DRTG with either of Biyombo/Ibaka than Biyombo and Ibaka playing together. I mean doesn't that signal that it could have been a system issue? Now I'm really curious why Biyombo and Ibaka were such a poor combo. Could it have been the size each gives up as a C, or that Biyombo was perhaps is better suited coming off the bench? Won't have that problem with Noel.

Which problem wouldn't we have with Noel? He's small too, and do we know that Noel is not better coming off the bench? For his career, he has a significantly higher TS% off the bench, a net positive individual rating (bball-ref) off the bench, and basically identical assist and rebound rates versus starting.

Noel and Biyombo are very similar style players, if Noel has a higher ceiling in terms of his passing game if nothing else, except Noel is a worse rebounder. I'd be very hesitant to recreate any facet of that dynamic that served Ibaka so poorly.

[Shaolin Fantastic]

Lol. Sarcasm isn't for everybody...

I understood the sarcasm fine. Best way to respond to snarky sarcasm is to just respond as if the person isn't being sarcastic.

[DanH]

I really don't understand this concept of Noel and Ibaka being a terrible fit together as starters. Both guys can guard the 4 and 5 effectively. Both are extremely mobile bigmen who protect the rim very well (Ibaka not as well as his younger days, but he's still good there). They aren't elite rebounders, but the combined rebounding of Noel/Ibaka is definitely better than last year's main 4-5 lineup of Patterson-JV. Offensively Noel won't demand touches and Ibaka spaces the floor really well, and defensively we'd almost never be caught in a bad matchup even if we were playing 2 bigs.

And that all sounds great in theory and every bit of it applied to Biyombo and Ibaka in Orlando. Except Biyombo is an even better rebounder than Noel (by a decent margin).

As for Noel and Ibaka being a better rebounding pair than JV and Patterson last year... Really? Their raw combined DREB% of 42% is lower than JV/PP's 45%; their raw combined OREB% of 14% is lower than JV/PP's 17%; the similar pairing of Biyombo/Ibaka (and remember Biyombo is a better rebounder than Noel) posted on-court rebounding rates of 20% and 76% to JV/PP's 26% and 77%...

I'm having a hard time seeing how they are demonstrably a better rebounding pairing than JV/PP.

[Chr1s1anL]

Biyombo was better defensively with the raps. Got worse when he went to Orlando. Serge was worse defensively in Orlando but, got better when he got to Toronto. You guys seeing a pattern here?

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[MixxAOR]

Biyombo was better defensively with the raps. Got worse when he went to Orlando. Serge was worse defensively in Orlando but, got better when he got to Toronto. You guys seeing a pattern here?

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They were separated?

[Chr1s1anL]

They were separated?

They went to a team that has constantly had good culture/defensive system. I wonder how Ross did defensively in Orlando compared to Toronto.

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[3inthekeon]

My point is that Masai has watched this offence for years now and has retained the 3 headed monster that makes it go. He has retained Casey twice. He obviously doesn't see a problem with it. If Masai hated the style of play like most of you want to believe than all 3 would not be here today.

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It's not obvious, though. Otherwise he wouldn't have brought up changing our offence at the end of season presser. Masai is a realist however. DD is fantastic at what he does - he's one of the 2 alpha dogs on the team and all-NBA. But building an offence to utilize his skillset is a daunting task. Thats why:

But I don’t know if the Raptors can blow it up. Since the article published, I’ve asked around and a few front-office executives told me they don’t think there’s that much interest in DeRozan.

Source:https://theringer.com/2017-nba-playo...s-f6b9c8062500

As long as DD is here and his skillset doesn't change (i. e. becoming a league average or close 3 pt shooter) ISO offence will still predominate (even if a bit more ball movement is added) and the chances of any new coach coming in and building a more successful ISO offence are slim.

[Shaolin Fantastic]

And that all sounds great in theory and every bit of it applied to Biyombo and Ibaka in Orlando. Except Biyombo is an even better rebounder than Noel (by a decent margin).

As for Noel and Ibaka being a better rebounding pair than JV and Patterson last year... Really? Their raw combined DREB% of 42% is lower than JV/PP's 45%; their raw combined OREB% of 14% is lower than JV/PP's 17%; the similar pairing of Biyombo/Ibaka (and remember Biyombo is a better rebounder than Noel) posted on-court rebounding rates of 20% and 76% to JV/PP's 26% and 77%...

I'm having a hard time seeing how they are demonstrably a better rebounding pairing than JV/PP.

It really is grasping at straws to pull a frontcourt pairing from one of the worst teams in the NBA and then try to apply it to us. Just for one thing, Ibaka also had responsibilities as the #1 or #2 scoring option on that Magic team. It's a totally different situation.