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Thread: Everything 2017 Off-Season

  1. #21
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    Quote KHD wrote: View Post
    the second MLSE thinks Lowry (and thus playoff / good team $$) might leave, casey will be out the door so fast it'll make your head spin.

    I hope you're right.

    But I think the person MLSE is most interested in keeping happy is Masai Ujiri.

  2. #22
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    Quote Odin wrote: View Post
    I hope you're right.

    But I think the person MLSE is most interested in keeping happy is Masai Ujiri.
    pretty sure MLSE is most concerned with keeping the bottom line happy. Fortunately, over the last few years they seemed to realize that spending to win brings in more than pinching pennies and sucking. but to what extent, i don't know, especially with Tim Leiweke out the door.

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  4. #23
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    Quote Odin wrote: View Post
    Things are very interesting now with the Ibaka trade. Obviously he was not traded as a rental. I don't think Masai makes the deal if that is the case (as he has said) and there is strong connections between work in Africa and Lowry/Serge sharing the same agent. I think you get Ibaka and Lowry for $50m combined. I think Lowry gets same amount as DeRozan annually ($27m) and Serge gets around $23m (Ryan Anderson got $20m last year so that seems right).

    With those assumptions, you have about $106,000,000 tied up in 11 players: DeRozan, Lowry, Ibaka, Carroll, Yahkob, Bebe, Caboclo, Delon, Siakam, Powell, and FvV.

    The magic number is $122m (or whatever the luxury tax is as determined around July 1st).

    That leaves about $16M for 4 roster spots and the new mid-level will be around $8m.

    I think Joseph and Valanciunas are gone this summer for draft picks (current year possible and future). Joseph is Canadian but once you get past that he is more than expendable. Jonas is great but he doesn't fit the style of play the team desires and, 5 years in, Casey still won't close a game with him. I hope Okafor doesn't end up in New Orleans - I think JV can make a nice impact next to Anthony Davis (and in the Western Conference).

    Patterson is possible to return assuming he is willing to take a small discount, say around $11M per year. He is a Casey fav, apparently loves Toronto, and has turned down more money 3 years ago to stay in a favorable situation. Lightning strike twice?
    you're missing around $1.5m assuming we keep our 1st rd pick. also, the luxury will be around 122 but the cap will be lower. i think we are lucky to keep pat with is bird rights after resigning serge and kyle. i dont think theres money to add an FA from another team, except with exceptions.
    also, i think we're looking north of $55m to keep kyle and ibaka but will see their performances first.

  5. #24
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    actually has the rookie scale gone up for this draft under the new cba? maybe the pick is worth $3m now?

  6. #25
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    Quote lewro wrote: View Post
    you're missing around $1.5m assuming we keep our 1st rd pick. also, the luxury will be around 122 but the cap will be lower. i think we are lucky to keep pat with is bird rights after resigning serge and kyle. i dont think theres money to add an FA from another team, except with exceptions.
    also, i think we're looking north of $55m to keep kyle and ibaka but will see their performances first.
    In my mind the 2017 first round pick was one of the 4 roster spots and $16m remaining.

    The only way to add a free agent from another team is an exception or minimum contract. The Raptors have no cap space whatsoever. I'm sure you recognize this but I'm not sure all fans realize it.

    It will be interesting to see how much it takes to keep them. Masai has shown to be extremely loyal and willing to stick with guys through good and bad. For all the cliche of building a culture, he has done that in Toronto. I think that kind of reputation allows you to bring up the possibility of taking a little less for team financial flexibility. There are strong opinions on DeRozan either way but one thing he did was take less than he could have.

    Raps have one of the best cap gurus in Bobby Webster too.

  7. #26
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    Quote Odin wrote: View Post
    In my mind the 2017 first round pick was one of the 4 roster spots and $16m remaining.

    The only way to add a free agent from another team is an exception or minimum contract. The Raptors have no cap space whatsoever. I'm sure you recognize this but I'm not sure all fans realize it.

    It will be interesting to see how much it takes to keep them. Masai has shown to be extremely loyal and willing to stick with guys through good and bad. For all the cliche of building a culture, he has done that in Toronto. I think that kind of reputation allows you to bring up the possibility of taking a little less for team financial flexibility. There are strong opinions on DeRozan either way but one thing he did was take less than he could have.

    Raps have one of the best cap gurus in Bobby Webster too.
    I'm just don't understand the $16m available? We might have that room under the luxury but not the cap so best we could do is resign pat, no?
    DD took a slight discount. I think you suggested $48m for ibaka and Lowry? I thinks its $10m+ more or thereabouts. $48m sure would help tho. Then if we got pat for $12m that would be awesome but I think it's closer to $65-75m for those 3. At that point one or more of cojo, jv, bebe and Dmc are all targets to go.
    We will see. Lots of basketball still. I'm leaning yak/ibaka/pat atm.

  8. #27
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    Quote lewro wrote: View Post
    I'm just don't understand the $16m available? We might have that room under the luxury but not the cap so best we could do is resign pat, no?
    DD took a slight discount. I think you suggested $48m for ibaka and Lowry? I thinks its $10m+ more or thereabouts. $48m sure would help tho. Then if we got pat for $12m that would be awesome but I think it's closer to $65-75m for those 3. At that point one or more of cojo, jv, bebe and Dmc are all targets to go.
    We will see. Lots of basketball still. I'm leaning yak/ibaka/pat atm.
    $106m for 11 players originally listed. In that, $50m for Ibaka/Lowry - ~$23/$27m split.

    $16m to sign 4 roster spots before luxury tax....that isn't cap space.

    With that $16m, as said, no cap space. It is Bird Rights (PP), mid level exception, bi-annual exception, draft picks, and minimum contracts.

    Slice it and dice it any way you wish.

    But all of that assumes JV and Joseph are gone which I think is a given.

  9. #28
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    OK, I thought u were say $16m on the open market, nvm.
    Yeah, Cory seems likely. Not sure whether pat/jv/DMC are back. Bebe too.

  10. #29
    Raptors Republic All-Star Maury's Avatar
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    Quote lewro wrote: View Post
    OK, I thought u were say $16m on the open market, nvm.
    Yeah, Cory seems likely. Not sure whether pat/jv/DMC are back. Bebe too.
    I don't want Bebe back. He's way too soft and I don't want Casey to have him as an option even at the end of the bench.


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  11. #30
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    If we resign Lowry and Ibaka for lets say 27m and 25m
    then trade Carroll, Cojo, Bebe for picks and vets (lets say VC)
    then Trade JV and Pick(s) for a young defensive center (lets say Miles Turner)


    Do we still have cap space to sign a Max player

    Lowry(27m) - Wright - VV
    DeRozan(27m) - Powell
    MAX LVL (25m+) - Carter - Bruno
    Ibaka (25m) - Pascal - Pick
    Turner (3m?) -Jakob
    Quote Abbas wrote:

    First of all i was my own source

  12. #31
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    Quote Abbas wrote: View Post
    If we resign Lowry and Ibaka for lets say 27m and 25m
    then trade Carroll, Cojo, Bebe for picks and vets (lets say VC)
    then Trade JV and Pick(s) for a young defensive center (lets say Miles Turner)


    Do we still have cap space to sign a Max player

    Lowry(27m) - Wright - VV
    DeRozan(27m) - Powell
    MAX LVL (25m+) - Carter - Bruno
    Ibaka (25m) - Pascal - Pick
    Turner (3m?) -Jakob
    It doesn't look like it, cap is projected at 103 mil I believe. Your roster looks to be 90 mil + (without the free agent).

    Did you have in mind Gordon Hayward? I think Utah will just give him 5 year max, he won't leave.

  13. #32
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    Quote KHD wrote: View Post
    casey isn't going to be here after the first round exit this year. highly doubt they're going to make a move because JV doesn't fit a stone-age offence.
    I'd bet good money we don't exit in the first round this year, and if we don't exit in the first round, Casey will be here again next year.

    Odin's right, Masai has shown great loyalty to Casey. The argument will be, let's see what he can do with a full training camp of Ibaka, let's swap out JV for a rim protector, and then evaluate the results in another year.

    If Casey could survive a first-round sweep to the Wizards, he is practically bulletproof. We'll make it out of the first round and then say goodbye to JV (though I hope not).

  14. #33
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    Quote Scraptor wrote: View Post
    I'd bet good money we don't exit in the first round this year, and if we don't exit in the first round, Casey will be here again next year.

    Odin's right, Masai has shown great loyalty to Casey. The argument will be, let's see what he can do with a full training camp of Ibaka, let's swap out JV for a rim protector, and then evaluate the results in another year.

    If Casey could survive a first-round sweep to the Wizards, he is practically bulletproof. We'll make it out of the first round and then say goodbye to JV (though I hope not).
    casey can't survive if lowry doesn't like him.

  15. #34
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    Quote KHD wrote: View Post
    casey can't survive if lowry doesn't like him.
    Your wish is clouding your judgement.

    Lowry was unhappy after the Wizards series too.... Looked like he didn't like Casey then.

    I agree with Scraptor and Odin.....

    Masai will talk to Lowry and Casey will get another chance.

    One thing I like about Casey is when it all seems inevitable, when it appears that he's done.....He gets the team to play for him and saves his job.

    He's also shown that he will play any lineup (4 point guards) and even bench Demar (the highest paid player on the team). I have a feeling that whatever happens.... Casey will still be here.

    The same people have been claiming Casey's gonna be gone for years. Not happening folks....

    It would take a really bad showing in the playoffs and with Patterson and Ibaka coming soon..... I don't see that happening.


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    Quote special1 wrote: View Post
    Your wish is clouding your judgement.

    Lowry was unhappy after the Wizards series too.... Looked like he didn't like Casey then.

    I agree with Scraptor and Odin.....

    Masai will talk to Lowry and Casey will get another chance.

    One thing I like about Casey is when it all seems inevitable, when it appears that he's done.....He gets the team to play for him and saves his job.

    He's also shown that he will play any lineup (4 point guards) and even bench Demar (the highest paid player on the team). I have a feeling that whatever happens.... Casey will still be here.

    The same people have been claiming Casey's gonna be gone for years. Not happening folks....

    It would take a really bad showing in the playoffs and with Patterson and Ibaka coming soon..... I don't see that happening.


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    Lowry wasn't a UFA after the washington series and the expectations were not as high as they are now either.

  17. #36
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    Yeah, the expectations part is key. The team solified itself as a 50 game winner and won the Atlantic back to back. Hard to fire your franchise single season win leader.
    Now masai has raised the bar with Ibaka and moved a high Colangelo pick. Thats a step toward it being his team.
    I'm not gonna quantify success in terms of wins and playoff rounds but I think Casey and individual players have to look like they've taken a step forward and fit or they're not safe.
    Committing $300m-$400m to Lowry/Ibaka/DD in the summer means Casey better be the right guy to coach them.

  18. #37
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    I think MU still has a couple bullets left.

    He did all the right things;
    ProveEm Toronto can resign its FA's
    Raptors are a real org, Practice centre, All-Star, Retained coaches and players after success
    Didn't just undo the last regimes mistake in trades, pulled off his own magic to acquire
    Fed his staff the players they want (DMC, Ibaka)

    Come this time next year he can fire a coach for widely seen cause, flip muturing assets to reset or reload.

    This year more than the last 3 'telling years' can show more than tell what our main trajectory is. We've made course adjustments after what was a charting and directional change some 3 years and change ago.

    MU's tenure and populous capital is at an all time high. If he's the guy he'll have a plan and execute, if not we're still eons ahead of the past 20+ campaigns.

  19. #38
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    Quote Scraptor wrote: View Post
    I'd bet good money we don't exit in the first round this year, and if we don't exit in the first round, Casey will be here again next year.

    Odin's right, Masai has shown great loyalty to Casey. The argument will be, let's see what he can do with a full training camp of Ibaka, let's swap out JV for a rim protector, and then evaluate the results in another year.

    If Casey could survive a first-round sweep to the Wizards, he is practically bulletproof. We'll make it out of the first round and then say goodbye to JV (though I hope not).
    It always seems to come down to let's evaluate down the road. DC is MU's guy period. Only issue will be how far will MLSE will be willing to go into the cap. With renewal of SSH tickets coming mid March we should get good idea based on how much they raise ticket prices.

  20. #39
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    Sacramento is really interesting right now.

    They are so screwed when it comes to free agency. No one is going there unless they are extremely over paid. So the only way to get better is to trade and draft.

    When it comes to trades their biggest asset is going to be picks and cap space. I agree with many posters that Raps could have made a better offer for Boogie but even if Masai wanted him, the Kings might not wanted a package that makes them stronger than the NO one. Vlade is going to be trying to lose every game the rest of the way and hope Philly does the same.

    But with their picks they have drafted horribly. Has any team drafted worse in the last 10 years? So maybe they are willing to trade for young guys on multi year deals for at least one of their picks?

    Tie into the idea of pick trading they have that terrible pick swap with Philly. So if they hit lottery magic they lose it to Philly. I bet they are praying for Philly to get #1 again.

    But when it comes to building their team through the draft, they only have 2017 and 2018 to do it as their 2019 goes to Philly.

    That franchise needs stability. They do have a good coach. Now they need young, stable vets.

    So how does this relate to Raptors? Young, stable vets (JV/Cojo)....and maybe an old one too (Carroll).

    Malachi Richardson is screwed behind Buddy. Maybe Raps can get their/Philly pick if it is in the 5-7 range plus Richardson for JV, CoJo, and Raps 1st? Maybe Raps throw in a lottery protected 2018? Hopefully Raps could get one of Jackson, Tatum, or Isaac.

    Probably wishful thinking on my part but I think solves a lot of issues for both teams.

  21. #40
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    With PJ Tucker trade and acquiring his Bird Rights, put me on the trade Carroll train.

    Only problem is he must have negative net worth.

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