James Johnson vs. Demarre Carroll

[DanH]

The JJ "headcase" angle is completely overblown. Lowry was a head case at one point too but opportunity and trust (well at least once Masai moved Jose) manages to do wonders. Sometimes all a player needs is a coach who gives them some trust.

If JJ was such a head case as some claim, then there is no way that Masai would have brought him in for a second stint.

Colangelo moved Jose. The trust and opportunity and bigger role came once Rudy was out of the picture.

[Axel]

Colangelo moved Jose. The trust and opportunity and bigger role came once Rudy was out of the picture.

Doesn't really change the point though?

[LJ2]

He's playing for a team currently out of the playoff picture which doesn't have any better options. A lot of players can look good under those conditions.

[tDotted]

He's playing for a team currently out of the playoff picture which doesn't have any better options. A lot of players can look good under those conditions.

Miami is in the playoff race right now (and is very likely to make it)

[LJ2]

I think it's fair to say they are a pretty bad team and allowing their players much more freedom to grow than is allowed on teams that have a serious playoff run in mind.

I'm happy for the guy and hope he gets paid, but I don't know if he's actually found his game or if this is the Mike James effect.

[golden]

People just need to accept that we missed a good opportunity to retain a talented role player at low cost in positions (SF/PF) of need and stop trying to pin it all on JJ's history, attitude, situation, etc..., etc....

Those are the type of savvy low cost pickups that contenders need to make to fill out the roster.... and Masai and Casey whiffed on that one. Not a huge loss, but a mistake nonetheless.

[tDotted]

People just need to accept that we missed a good opportunity to retain a talented role player at low cost in positions (SF/PF) of need and stop trying to pin it all on JJ's history, attitude, situation, etc..., etc....

Those are the type of savvy low cost pickups that contenders need to make to fill out the roster.... and Masai and Casey whiffed on that one. Not a huge loss, but a mistake nonetheless.

I think there's a good chance Masai would've brought JJ back if he had decided to part ways with Casey. The two were not working out

[S.R.]

How about we put this in the Mulligan Bin with Hassan Whiteside and however many other shoulda/woulda/coulda's you want to pull up over the years?

Do you guys realize every team has a stack of these "think how good we would be right now if only we had..." situations? Not just the Raptors?

And why are the Raptors the ones who missed this boat? If Miami James Johnson had happened in Memphis or Sacramento, he never would have gotten to Toronto 2.0. If Miami James Johnson had happened in Chicago, he never would have gotten to Toronto 1.0. This guy is 29 years old and played the same way for 4 different NBA teams before this year, but this is all Dwane Casey's fault some how?

This is a bit much hand wringing for a guy who, to be blunt, is still not a very good player.

BTW Basketball Reference has him playing 89% of his minutes at PF in Miami, not SF. If you want apples to apples he would be taking Patrick Patterson's minutes in Toronto, not Demarre Carroll's.

Edit: also, JJ was not a "head case" because he fought with teammates and coaches, he was a "head case" because he would ignore instructions on the floor and do whatever random thing or he'd have massive in-game brain farts and blow his assignments. The rate he'd do those things about equaled the rate he'd make great positive plays, in my opinion, and were often the reason he'd get hooked in-game.

[planetmars]

I would have rather had JJ over Sully (obviously). He would have been affordable since he took less than the mid-level to play in Miami.. but I think the bridge was burnt. Whether it was Masai, Casey, someone on the team, or an assistant.. or maybe just Toronto itself.. it didn't matter. He wasn't coming back.

And he's playing more PF than SF in Miami. That would have still helped as he'd be an upgrade over Siakam and depth when the Serge trade happened. Although we ended up trading Sully to get Tucker.

So who would you rather have Tucker or JJ? It comes down to that really. I'd rather have Tucker personally.

[slaw]

People just need to accept that we missed a good opportunity to retain a talented role player at low cost in positions (SF/PF) of need and stop trying to pin it all on JJ's history, attitude, situation, etc..., etc....

Those are the type of savvy low cost pickups that contenders need to make to fill out the roster.... and Masai and Casey whiffed on that one. Not a huge loss, but a mistake nonetheless.

Well, yes, if you ignore all the player's history, the fact he failed with 4 franchises (including one that brought him back off the dust heap), the fact that Toronto had guys like Carroll, Ross, Derozan, Lowry, Joseph, and then Powell on the perimeter, and the fact he was inconsistent and maddening, and the fact that Miami is a fringe playoff team with no expectations that can afford to roll the dice on guys, then.......... yes, I can see how you could come to the conclusion that Toronto made a mistake.

Ignoring all of the facts that don't lead to your conclusion has the strange result of ensuring your conclusion is the correct one.

[Deems]

Well, yes, if you ignore all the player's history, the fact he failed with 4 franchises (including one that brought him back off the dust heap), the fact that Toronto had guys like Carroll, Ross, Derozan, Lowry, Joseph, and then Powell on the perimeter, and the fact he was inconsistent and maddening, and the fact that Miami is a fringe playoff team with no expectations that can afford to roll the dice on guys, then.......... yes, I can see how you could come to the conclusion that Toronto made a mistake.

Ignoring all of the facts that don't lead to your conclusion has the strange result of ensuring your conclusion is the correct one.

My thoughts exactly. Also JJ wouldn't be a starter in most playoff teams; probably not even Miami if they didn't get hit with a brinks truck full of injuries. He's making the most out of his opportunity and that's great to hear (Getting ready for that Biyombo money!!); but to compare him to Carroll THIS year when they play in two different systems and roles is baffling.

[LJ2]

How about we put this in the Mulligan Bin with Hassan Whiteside and however many other shoulda/woulda/coulda's you want to pull up over the years?

Do you guys realize every team has a stack of these "think how good we would be right now if only we had..." situations? Not just the Raptors?

And why are the Raptors the ones who missed this boat? If Miami James Johnson had happened in Memphis or Sacramento, he never would have gotten to Toronto 2.0. If Miami James Johnson had happened in Chicago, he never would have gotten to Toronto 1.0. This guy is 29 years old and played the same way for 4 different NBA teams before this year, but this is all Dwane Casey's fault some how?

This is a bit much hand wringing for a guy who, to be blunt, is still not a very good player.

BTW Basketball Reference has him playing 89% of his minutes at PF in Miami, not SF. If you want apples to apples he would be taking Patrick Patterson's minutes in Toronto, not Demarre Carroll's.

Edit: also, JJ was not a "head case" because he fought with teammates and coaches, he was a "head case" because he would ignore instructions on the floor and do whatever random thing or he'd have massive in-game brain farts and blow his assignments. The rate he'd do those things about equaled the rate he'd make great positive plays, in my opinion, and were often the reason he'd get hooked in-game.

You know if we just kept T-Mac...but Casey.

[golden]

My thoughts exactly. Also JJ wouldn't be a starter in most playoff teams; probably not even Miami if they didn't get hit with a brinks truck full of injuries. He's making the most out of his opportunity and that's great to hear (Getting ready for that Biyombo money!!); but to compare him to Carroll THIS year when they play in two different systems and roles is baffling.

I think the argument was retaining JJ over Sully to start at PF, when we desperately needed PF help earlier this year. And then as an emergency replacement for Carroll, like we need now. The other question s why can Eric Spoelstra design a system to maximize mis-fits and castoffs?

Because of the salary politics, JJ was never going to replace 16M/y Carroll as a full-time starter. Again, it's a not a huge loss, but contending teams are usually overstocked with low-cost NBA level talent. Just take the mulligan and move on.

[Ball]

You know if we just kept T-Mac...but Casey.

Ohhhhhhhhh man. Carter and T-Mac... what could've been.

[golden]

Ohhhhhhhhh man. Carter and T-Mac... what could've been.

As agonizing as that sounds, it pales in comparison to OKC fans lament over: Westbrook, Durant, Harden & Ibaka. wow.