Everything Round 2: Toronto Raptors vs Cleveland Cavaliers

[rocwell]

Toronto All-Star Kyle Lowry still getting treatment on ankle injury, uncertain on his status for Game 3 tonight, he tells @TheVertical.

— Adrian Wojnarowski (@WojVerticalNBA) May 5, 2017

[Nilanka]

not an unfair advantage, sure.

It's not an issue if you like how the nba is trending. but i don't. it's becoming homogenized towards 1 style of play, because that style is just straight up better than all the others.

I mean we see it with this team. Demar has to be MUCH better at what they do than almost any other star player, because other guys shoot the 3 and that's just statistically more valuable.

If you cut the corner 3, defending the 3 becomes a hell of a lot easier for a lot of teams, which means that a lot of other playstyles become valid again. Personally I'd like to see that. Call me old school but i actually like post ups and midrange jumpers stemming from off-ball movement (not iso).

Ok, the point of the 3pt line was to reward a more difficult, less efficient shot with more points. The corner 3 is not that. It is too "easy" a shot relative to the reward.

It's not about unfair advantage, it's actually about trying to prevent homogeneity in the game, which gets boring. This season was probably the most boring season of basketball I've ever watched. Just teams chucking it up because of how valuable the 3 has become. Since it is a relatively low-skill shot from the corner for NBA players, to me it seems like a potential starting point to make changes.

If it's not that, they've still gotta come up with something.

Sent from my HTC One using Tapatalk

Personally, I don't think strategy would change all that much if you take away the corner 3. Good 3pt shooting teams will still aim to rain bombs as much as possible. They'll just have to be a little more selective in their spots.

And to maintain good spacing, maybe teams still look to take open corner shots, even if they're only worth 2 pts instead of 3.

I definitely don't see such a rule change causing the resurgence of dominant post play. You basically need to remove the 3pt line entirely, for that.

[Nilanka]

This is a weird Raptors team that has shown great hustle and heart at times and absolutely rolls over at times. Unfortunately during the most important games of the year they are doing the latter. Even if you lose by 20 again, show some fucking fire.

Ya, you'd think Raps are a really mentally strong team, based on their ability to come back from so many deficits throughout the years.

Yet, they're really mentally soft when they're constantly starting games with the urgency of a light Sunday jog. It's so bizarre.

[Axel]

Personally, I don't think strategy would change all that much if you take away the corner 3. Good 3pt shooting teams will still aim to rain bombs as much as possible. They'll just have to be a little more selective in their spots.

And to maintain good spacing, maybe teams still look to take open corner shots, even if they're only worth 2 pts instead of 3.

I definitely don't see such a rule change causing the resurgence of dominant post play. You basically need to remove the 3pt line entirely, for that.

I think it would change defensive schemes a lot but ultimately might not alter the end result.

As now, corner 3s defence can largely fall to bigs along the baseline leaking out. If all of those attempts are now above the break, it's not going to be a baseline big (or wing) chasing out off the line anymore. Spacing and angles will be entirely different that will cause schemes to alter. Might take a year or three for defences to really adjust and then we'd have a new normal again.

[golden]

Yeah that's just not true despite what the eye test might suggest to you. All of the team's assist and ball movement numbers went down once Lowry went out. DeRozan is the ball stopper on the team, not Kyle.

Raw ball movement numbers are bit misleading, though. Are all those backcourt hand-offs considered actual passes? DeMar giving up the ball earlier in the possession by design is more important to ball movement than raw passing numbers. IMO, the real issue here is that the Cavs blitzing DeMar is forcing players who are used to being 3rd, 4th and 5th options to become 1st options. In a Spursian-type of ball movement system, that's okay because role players are trained to make higher level decisions, looking for their own shot and moving the ball to the open man. In the Raptors system, the natural instinct is to look for Kyle and DeMar and pass the ball back to them.

Cavs are forcing the Raps to play a different style of game in the playoffs than what was practiced all regular season and the role players have become indecisive & lacking confidence (turning down open shots, hesitating, tentative,....). They are role players, after all. On the other hand, the Cavs are playing exactly the same as their regular season identity and stepping into the ball and shooting with full confidence. Because the Cavs role players play that style all year long.

Casey talks about "playing to our identity", but the Cavs have used blitzing to flush the Raps out of their regular season identity. It's as simple as that.

[golden]

not an unfair advantage, sure.

It's not an issue if you like how the nba is trending. but i don't. it's becoming homogenized towards 1 style of play, because that style is just straight up better than all the others.

I mean we see it with this team. Demar has to be MUCH better at what they do than almost any other star player, because other guys shoot the 3 and that's just statistically more valuable.

If you cut the corner 3, defending the 3 becomes a hell of a lot easier for a lot of teams, which means that a lot of other playstyles become valid again. Personally I'd like to see that. Call me old school but i actually like post ups and midrange jumpers stemming from off-ball movement (not iso).

DeMar having a 3-pt shot (+ passing ability) definitely puts a dent into the Cavs blitzing strategy. It's a lot different when they know 100% that DD is going to drive to the basket vs. stepping back, or passing. That's what make Harden so difficult to defend. He's a quintuple threat on offense. He can pass, shoot 3's, penetrate, score in mid-range and draw fouls. DeMar can only do 3 of those 5 things well. Those weaknesses are now being exposed and exploited, which is what the playoffs do.

[MixxAOR]

Its a W tonight. Just a gut feeling

[S.R.]

Its a W tonight. Just a gut feeling

PJ Tucker in DeMar DeRozan's ear pregame:

[S.R.]

Ha! I was just talking with a colleague today that whoever the Raps' sports psychologist is should be fired.

I wonder if it's still the same person who misinterpreted Bargnani's detachment as "cool under pressure" instead of "lazy + doesn't give a shit."

[slaw]

ESPN segment - should the NBA remove Raptors from playoffs?

lol

ESPN and its hundreds of remaining viewers must have been very amused..... shouldn't they be busy working on some more poems praising murderers?

[Nilanka]

Its a W tonight. Just a gut feeling

Even without Lowry?

[The Great One]

Prediction - Another blowout loss.

[SkywalkerAC]

Some deadeye shooters wouldn't hurt.

[The Great One]

Wow. Someone finally said something about LeBron and its the 2nd year player.

https://twitter.com/BlakeMurphyODC/s...17243410685953

[Rand]

Because they may not. Again, regular season caveats aside, this was a 5th (tied) place team in a thirty team league that went through a rough stretch of injuries and played well for half a season with a not yet ready rookie at PF (as opposed to Ibaka). Maybe next year we're the 1st or 2nd seed and we don't face the cavs til the ECF. Or maybe the cavs stumble and get knocked out earlier. Or maybe the clock finally turns on Lebron and the team is nothing. You have to have a seat at the table in order to get a spin at the wheel. What's the alternative? Don't sign Lowry and Ibaka? Start Cory, Demar, Norm, Pascal and JV (or Poeltl)? Tread around the dreaded 7-11 range and return to a basketball wasteland? We lucked into this thing...I wouldn't throw it away just because we may lose to a team that, oh by the way, beat the warriors and won the championship last year. It's always fair to complain and say what you want to get rid of but try and include what you'd have left.

I expect every other team to be better next year. we won't be able to cruise to into top 3/4 spot in ECF. Look at the way Wiz are playing now. Took them most of a year to learn the new coach. Next year they will hit the ground running. Cs will be better even without the top pick of this year because they've gained growth through this playoff run. Sixers will be a playoff team if they are healthy. Bucks will be in the top 4 next year.

Next year's ECF top 4 - Cavs, Celtics, Bucks, Wiz (not in that order)

we'll be competing with Hawks for that 5/6 spot next year. old, in luxury cap, and little upside. So no, with this coach this team's ceiling has been reached. Masai will need to sign and trade a few guys. And hopefully a new coach.