Everything Round 2: Toronto Raptors vs Cleveland Cavaliers

[Axel]

At least this game was watchable for most of it. Up until that Delon-Powell lead offence stretch to start the 4th.

Wonder what players we are seeing at the ACC for the last time next game?

[suspenders]

At least this game was watchable for most of it. Up until that Delon-Powell lead offence stretch to start the 4th.

Wonder what players we are seeing at the ACC for the last time next game?

:-(

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[special1]

Raps VS Cavs Game 3 Wednesday May 5th 7:00 ET

Are you suggesting that they wouldn't?

Spurs have never really had any problems signing players they wanted and, luckily, haven't had much need to target "true superstar" players in free agency.

LMA may not be a true superstar by whatever definition is in play here, but he ultimately chose Pop over Casey.

I asked a straight forward question.....

I'm not suggesting anything.

He made the statement. So I looked at the best coach in the league and wanted to know which "true superstar" chose to play for him.

Personally, I think Players choose based on the teams, not really the coaches. I'm sure there is some consideration, but not as much as the roster, location, perceived history, etc.


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[Axel]

I asked a straight forward question.....

I'm not suggesting anything.

He made the statement. So I looked at the best coach in the league and wanted to know which "true superstar" chose to play for him.

Personally, I think Players choose based on the teams, not really the coaches. I'm sure there is some consideration, but not as much as the roster, location, perceived history, etc.

You asked a straightforward question as an answer to a straightforward question - that usually means you are suggesting something.

I do largely agree with your last point there but would add that the coach (both style and quality) is more important than you're admitting. A good coach has a tremendous impact on the quality of the roster (getting the most out of players) and perceived history (not just W-L record but the general feeling about a team; on the rise, on the cusp, on last legs). A good coach makes a big difference for a lot of players. Perhaps not as much to the Durant's of the world, who are going to choose based on teammates and titles more than anything but for the vast majority of free agents. Since we aren't likely landing Durant, it's the vast majority that we need to worry about.

[BrieflySpeaking]

I see nothing to validate that. On paper the Cavs are clearly worse than last season. On the court, the fact that the Raptors are playing terrible lineups featuring a pitiful display of Hero ball (both offense and defense) is making Cleveland look much better than they actually are. I expect to see Cleveland handled easily in the Finals, if they make it that far.

[rocwell]

Finals should be incredible. ... Cavs/Warriors should be like two stars colliding.

Um. We'll see.

Warriors w/o KD vs Cavs should be incredible. Healthy KD changes everything

[white men can't jump]

This Cavs team is better than last year's Cavs team. I'm starting to rethink the Finals.

Maybe a bit better offensively. Adding Korver really helped that.

Defensively though they're definitely worse imo.

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[livan33]

Fuck! This was the good game! And Casey fucked it all up. Damn it!

Let's walk through the insanity that must have been the thought process for Mr. Championship Ring in the late 3rd, early 4th Q.

We're approaching the end of a moderately successful third quarter. The score is close. DeMar and JV have played the entire Q. As have Thompson and Irving. Because you are a functioning human being with a brain, you realize DeMar is going to have to rest soon, probably at the start of the 4th quarter. So you decide you want an offensive contributor on the floor to start the 4th. Got to be one of JV or DeMar. No one else is scoring with any consistency, and only a fucking moron would look at the past season and decide having Norm as the primary attacker would be a good idea. I mean, he excelled as the third guy in starting units and was garbage as a 6th man scorer.

Wait, here's the brilliant plan! We'll run our two guys who need their breath the most (DeMar because he carries a heavy load, JV because he's the big lumbering guy) and we'll run them both into the freaking ground at the same time to end the third. Literally play them both the entire quarter. Both are tired, so the team will lose ground in those final minutes (-3 in 3 minutes), and we'll head to the 4th with both players exhausted and so we'll sit them both. And just for good measure, we'll sit Cory too! Who needs an experienced playoff ball handler and scorer out there when you've got Delon Wright and Norman Powell? Better yet, we'll put them out there with Serge Ibaka, who was just shooting the lights out tonight, Patterson, who was so passive he didn't even take a shot, and PJ Tucker - three of the best offensive players on the team to give them real options to pass to on the off chance the defence actually has to shift at some point. And just for fucking kicks we'll have Tucker chase Korver around, totally his forte.

Obviously we're doing this because guys need a rest, all at the same time. And even if you wanted to put JV in there, for example (though who would want to do that, right?), you can't, because they've got Channing Frye and Irving both out there, and you can't have JV out there with Irving too long or they target him in PnR action, and we all know how much trouble Frye gives us!

What's that? You're saying Frye didn't come in until there were 3 minutes left and Irving sat the entire 4th quarter? Huh, too bad none of the coaching staff noticed that.

Anyway, no need to have JV in there against literally the ideal opposing lineup from a defensive point of view, to provide scoring for a lineup that had literally none (scored 2 points in 2 minutes on 3 possessions). Doesn't matter anyway, because we're bringing in DeMar DeRozan and Joseph instead! I mean, sure, they've barely had any rest and presumably will be playing the rest of the quarter, unlike JV, but who cares? They'll generate offence!

Or, you know, not. Maybe instead, since the Raptors had no inside presence at all (and allowed Thompson to hang around as a rim protector) they'll settle for jumpers and miss nine straight shots before we make more subs. Nevermind that even if having JV in there wouldn't open the floor for DeMar, the Cavs would probably go to Frye to get JV to sit down - and DeRozan was scoring over Frye all night with ease.

Even more good news! As soon as JV subs in, you go to him and prove he can be an offensive option for those dry spells. Bad news, of course, is the game is over. And you obviously know that! Because you've gone and taken Cory Joseph out of the game! For freaking Fred Van Vleet! Which makes sense - the Raptors are down by 19 after a 12-1 run with zero timeouts by the Raptors in the 5 minutes it took, and that includes a fricking 5 second violation where obviously you should call a time out!

I'm just freaking rambling now. Stupid. Throwing away a fucking playoff game. The Raptors were IN IT! And you threw it away with these ridiculous garbage crap rotation decisions.

How do you let your team down like that? The team fought and clawed for every scrap of offence on a night when the team couldn't hit a shot, and were right there late in the third, and you decide to pull this shit then? If Casey hadn't lost the locker room by then, he surely lost it right there. These players aren't stupid. They can see what's happening out there, Dwane. If I can see it plain as day, ignorant schmuck that I am sitting on my couch, they sure can. So why can't you, coach? It makes no sense!

The Cavs didn't win this game. They may well have won it - in fact, they probably would have pulled it out unless the Raps caught fire late. But that final score? Looks like the first two games. This game was NOT the first two games. This game was a GAME. Until Casey decided to prove that he could get out coached by a fifth grader, or heck, even by Tyronn Lue - without Lue having to do anything!

God, I haven't been this frustrated with a member of the Raptors since the Nets series when DeRozan almost singlehandedly threw away game 3 with his horrendous defence on ISO-Joe. Freaking infuriating.

LeBron, put us out of our misery, and Masai, same to you. I can't take any more of this. Nevermind the team never looking prepared for a playoff series matchup, nor making adjustments until a game or two too late. Nevermind the clown show rotations in the regular season, or the ridiculous misuse of players. Setting all that aside, we get to the playoffs and we get ourselves into a third quarter where the team has a lead, a hard earned lead, on LeBron's Cavs. And he fucking throws it away. Who can play for that coach? How can you trust him, or work hard for him? How do you reward your team for those hard fought and tremendous first three quarters, by throwing the towel in the 4th down two?

Just, fuck. Seriously.

This might be the greatest post I've ever seen in my life. Bravo.

[Deems]

Aside from the obvious stupidity of Dwane, how can a team of professional basketball players miss SO MANY GOD DAMN OPEN SHOTS????

[big boi]

Man even Demar called out Casey for resting him so long. He said he didn't need a rest. Stressed it was a critical time in the game. Never seen him call Casey out like that. Publically - in a press conference.

Now of course you can't trust players to manage their own minutes or rest, but the question could be asked, what was Casey saving Demar / CJ for? That was the series. In those minutes as Dan pointed out. This was the opportunity. You win this one without Kyle, huge boost. No point ensuring players adequately rested for game 4 if down 0-3.

Hard to see Casey coming back from this. As long as we make a coaching change I'm open to any direction (taking another run, or pairing back a bit with Demar and JV the focus). Need to address the 3 spot no matter what happens. And of course that player should be able to shoot the 3 consistently too.

[white men can't jump]

Man even Demar called out Casey for resting him so long. He said he didn't need a rest. Stressed it was a critical time in the game. Never seen him call Casey out like that. Publically - in a press conference.

Now of course you can't trust players to manage their own minutes or rest, but the question could be asked, what was Casey saving Demar / CJ for? That was the series. In those minutes as Dan pointed out. This was the opportunity. You win this one without Kyle, huge boost. No point ensuring players adequately rested for game 4 if down 0-3.

Hard to see Casey coming back from this. As long as we make a coaching change I'm open to any direction (taking another run, or pairing back a bit with Demar and JV the focus). Need to address the 3 spot no matter what happens. And of course that player should be able to shoot the 3 consistently too.

The last paragraph is how I've felt for 2 years...in a way longer but the Wiz loss cemented my opinion.

I think even if we cut Casey loose, you try to carry momentum with this team. If Lowry goes, you retool on the fly around Demar and make JV a bigger piece. Both guys thrive in a slower paced game, so build your team to grit and grind more. Hopefully bring back Ibaka, and try to upgrade the SF spot, though I think even undersized just playing Powell more makes a solid difference there.

*And if next season goes badly without Lowry, you try to tear it up by the deadline or at least next summer and tank for a year or two.

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[golden]

The last paragraph is how I've felt for 2 years...in a way longer but the Wiz loss cemented my opinion.

I think even if we cut Casey loose, you try to carry momentum with this team. If Lowry goes, you retool on the fly around Demar and make JV a bigger piece. Both guys thrive in a slower paced game, so build your team to grit and grind more. Hopefully bring back Ibaka, and try to upgrade the SF spot, though I think even undersized just playing Powell more makes a solid difference there.

*And if next season goes badly without Lowry, you try to tear it up by the deadline or at least next summer and tank for a year or two.

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I don't think Casey is going anywhere, but if we keep the same core, I'd bring in Jeff Van Gundy. This roster is suited to the style of play JVG used to coach. He'd definitely get more production out of Jonas and make everybody toughen up and play defense. Kyle and DeMar would have to D up consistently.

Most likely scenario is that this year will be publicly hailed as a success: another 50-win season for Casey, but just bad luck that we ran into prime Lebron with Lowry getting hurt. Lowry & Ibaka will be re-signed to the max and any combination of CoJo, Carroll, Patterson, JV, Tucker & Bebe will be moved or let walk. The party line will be that we need to give the Lowry/DD/Ibaka/Powell core at least a full season to "gel". If we hit a wall again in next year's playoffs, then Lowry will be traded next off-season while he has good value. Casey won't be let go until next off-season, when there's only 5M left on his salary.

Lowry/DD/Powell/Ibaka/? coached by Dwane Casey are your Toronto Raptors for the 2017-18 season.

[MACK11]

I know casey isn't the smartest coach. But how the hell do you start the 4th quarter without DD or JV????? Seriously what the fuck is wrong with this man.

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[jimmie]

I know casey isn't the smartest coach. But how the hell do you start the 4th quarter without DD or JV????? Seriously what the fuck is wrong with this man.

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JV should have been in there, but DD was tired (Korver started his run while DD was trying unsuccessfully to chase him around screens). And with JV, Caseys defence bias got the best of him. JV can't guard anyone on the Cavs, so putting him out there when you're already down 10 points might not have seemed like a great idea st the time. Casey is getting too much flak for one substitution in a series where not 1 of his non-stars can hit a goddam shot.

[MixxAOR]

When did DD. hase Korver? All i remember is Tucker fucking up and Powell missing him