Everything Round 2: Toronto Raptors vs Cleveland Cavaliers

[DanH]

I mean, it was a blowout loss, so that's bad. But I thought in the realm of blowout losses, it wasn't that bad. I thought game 1 was worse. Raps did some good things in this one - after game one I had no reason for hope.

The real story in this one is the Cavs hitting everything. Like, everything. Like, step back, hand in the face threes at like a 60% clip or some such nonsense.

There were definitely some stretches where the Cavs outclassed the Raps, but there were good stretches too. JV was great offensively, and good keeping the Cavs off the boards. Had several very strange defensive plays where the coverage was weird, like him high hedging on a couple screens or getting slipped when coming up to trap for some reason. Seemed like it was a play call though. Has to get cleaned up - when he played straight up defence on picks he was actually OK in this one. Anyway, good stuff on the other end.

Lowry was good too, for stretches at least. Hope he's OK. DeRozan was awful on both ends. Yuck. Seems like he needs one of these games every series to remind himself how not to play.

Meh. Confluence of bad stuff. Cavs hitting everything - won't happen at home. DeRozan being awful, shouldn't happen at home. Refs being brutal (they really were, right?) - again, hope for better with home court.

Then cut down on stupid stuff like unforced turnovers, playing JV against Frye, going small against Love (going small against LBJ was actually OK, to my surprise)... Who knows? Could steal a couple and at least make the Cavs pay attention. Need a lot to go right though. We're seeing pretty solid evidence of this team's ceiling. Perhaps that's why I'm not too upset by this game compared to last - might just be in the acceptance phase of grieving for this team.

[The Great One]

Well at least my Oilers are winning. It's great when you have the BEST player in the league on your team.

[golden]

If Vince(prime Vince) was on this team instead of Lowry and DeRozan we'd be a legit challenger to the Cavs. I don't want to hear anymore how DeRozan > VC or Lowry > VC. Because it's not close.

Have to agree with this, with the small caveat that the bad habits that Casey has been drilling into Lowry and DeRozan year after year in the regular season don't exactly help them or the team in the playoffs.

[KHD]

I mean, it was a blowout loss, so that's bad. But I thought in the realm of blowout losses, it wasn't that bad. I thought game 1 was worse. Raps did some good things in this one - after game one I had no reason for hope.

The real story in this one is the Cavs hitting everything. Like, everything. Like, step back, hand in the face threes at like a 60% clip or some such nonsense.

There were definitely some stretches where the Cavs outclassed the Raps, but there were good stretches too. JV was great offensively, and good keeping the Cavs off the boards. Had several very strange defensive plays where the coverage was weird, like him high hedging on a couple screens or getting slipped when coming up to trap for some reason. Seemed like it was a play call though. Has to get cleaned up - when he played straight up defence on picks he was actually OK in this one. Anyway, good stuff on the other end.

Lowry was good too, for stretches at least. Hope he's OK. DeRozan was awful on both ends. Yuck. Seems like he needs one of these games every series to remind himself how not to play.

Meh. Confluence of bad stuff. Cavs hitting everything - won't happen at home. DeRozan being awful, shouldn't happen at home. Refs being brutal (they really were, right?) - again, hope for better with home court.

Then cut down on stupid stuff like unforced turnovers, playing JV against Frye, going small against Love (going small against LBJ was actually OK, to my surprise)... Who knows? Could steal a couple and at least make the Cavs pay attention. Need a lot to go right though. We're seeing pretty solid evidence of this team's ceiling. Perhaps that's why I'm not too upset by this game compared to last - might just be in the acceptance phase of grieving for this team.

yeah i mean the recipe is simple. Start JV against TT, play PnR defence straight up without all the ridiculous trapping that has literally never worked, and hope he's on his game.

Realistically, i don't see much different happening next game, though. I'm ready for major changes to this team. Casey and carroll must go at a minimum.

[white men can't jump]

If Vince(prime Vince) was on this team instead of Lowry and DeRozan we'd be a legit challenger to the Cavs. I don't want to hear anymore how DeRozan > VC or Lowry > VC. Because it's not close.

It never was. Anyone who thought otherwise was blind and/or ignorant.

[white men can't jump]

yeah i mean the recipe is simple. Start JV against TT, play PnR defence straight up without all the ridiculous trapping that has literally never worked, and hope he's on his game.

Realistically, i don't see much different happening next game, though. I'm ready for major changes to this team. Casey and carroll must go at a minimum.

JV benched and we still got blown out. Clearly it's his fault. Next game he needs to be out of the rotation altogether. Need to bump up FVV so we can play smaller, because our guys are at their best when they're sped up and playing uptempo.

[psrs1]

I mean, it was a blowout loss, so that's bad. But I thought in the realm of blowout losses, it wasn't that bad. I thought game 1 was worse. Raps did some good things in this one - after game one I had no reason for hope.

The real story in this one is the Cavs hitting everything. Like, everything. Like, step back, hand in the face threes at like a 60% clip or some such nonsense.

There were definitely some stretches where the Cavs outclassed the Raps, but there were good stretches too. JV was great offensively, and good keeping the Cavs off the boards. Had several very strange defensive plays where the coverage was weird, like him high hedging on a couple screens or getting slipped when coming up to trap for some reason. Seemed like it was a play call though. Has to get cleaned up - when he played straight up defence on picks he was actually OK in this one. Anyway, good stuff on the other end.

Lowry was good too, for stretches at least. Hope he's OK. DeRozan was awful on both ends. Yuck. Seems like he needs one of these games every series to remind himself how not to play.

Meh. Confluence of bad stuff. Cavs hitting everything - won't happen at home. DeRozan being awful, shouldn't happen at home. Refs being brutal (they really were, right?) - again, hope for better with home court.

Then cut down on stupid stuff like unforced turnovers, playing JV against Frye, going small against Love (going small against LBJ was actually OK, to my surprise)... Who knows? Could steal a couple and at least make the Cavs pay attention. Need a lot to go right though. We're seeing pretty solid evidence of this team's ceiling. Perhaps that's why I'm not too upset by this game compared to last - might just be in the acceptance phase of grieving for this team.

It may be time to grieve soon.

[psrs1]

yeah i mean the recipe is simple. Start JV against TT, play PnR defence straight up without all the ridiculous trapping that has literally never worked, and hope he's on his game.

Realistically, i don't see much different happening next game, though. I'm ready for major changes to this team. Casey and carroll must go at a minimum.

Casey may go but Carroll will be tough with his contract. His knee is shot. He reminds me of Landry Fields a little bit . Once Fields had that surgery he was done.

[Mindlessness]

Well at least my Oilers are winning. It's great when you have the BEST player in the league on your team.

Not anymore .

Also, you think McJesus is already better than Crosby?

[The Great One]

Not anymore .

Also, you think McJesus is already better than Crosby?

Easily

[The Great One]

I vote for Joey to create the next game thread.

[slaw]

It never was. Anyone who thought otherwise was blind and/or ignorant.

Team accomplished nothing with VC. Nothing. The end of the VC era saw the team playing better without him. I don't know if Lowry and Derozan are better but the Raps have accomplished far more with them than with VC. But I may be too blind and ignirant to acknowledge VC's greatness. I mean, only the true greats quit on their team, demand trades and give play calls out to opponents in the middle of games.

[Scraptor]

It never was. Anyone who thought otherwise was blind and/or ignorant.

I think very few fans would argue that peak DeMar > peak Vince. DeMar over Vince is more about longevity and loyalty.

[The Claw Reborn]

Classic defense. Always trying to deflect. Derozan and anything he touches will turn to sparkles. Republicans these days lol

[white men can't jump]

Team accomplished nothing with VC. Nothing. The end of the VC era saw the team playing better without him. I don't know if Lowry and Derozan are better but the Raps have accomplished far more with them than with VC. But I may be too blind and ignirant to acknowledge VC's greatness. I mean, only the true greats quit on their team, demand trades and give play calls out to opponents in the middle of games.

The teams VC had around him were largely trash. At his peak, he was a legit top 10 player in the league, and pretty much all the success the team had in that era was because of what he was able to accomplish. Management did a shit job of providing any kind of help or future for the team with him around, and yeah, he acted badly at the end as well, but we still have not had any player as talented or singlehandedly dominant as he was in that time. And the saddest part of this whole thing is that it still could've easily been a completely different story if McGrady wasn't a dumb homesick kid with ballhogging dreams.

Chris Bosh was the next closest in terms of pure talent, and also never had legit help. DeMar and Lowry are a full tier below, and have easily the deepest and most well rounded team around them in Raptors history. You can attack Carter's character all you want, it doesn't change any of this.

**I also have no clue what "the end of the VC era saw the team playing better without him" means. Do you mean the one late season run they made while he was injured? The team that when he sat with the injury they lost a bunch of games in a row, and he tried to play on the bad knee and wasn't able to right the ship? Pretty sure that teams record and chances would've been much better with a healthy VC, but if you want to glorify a random late-season run by a bunch of veterans, go for it. And I'm pretty sure he played on a garbage team for almost a season and a half more, where getting Jalen Rose was management's idea of trying to improve the roster during the late part of the "VC era".