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  • DanH wrote: View Post
    I think if his guy didn't fall to him at 23, he was going to use it to maximize return in a salary dump - say 23 and JV for a future 1st or a prospect shooter. Or 23 and Carroll for a couple 2nd rounders or something. But with OG there, he decided to go in a different direction, try to shed salary later in the summer when a couple teams have struck out in free agency and have needs at specific positions.
    i agree on the carroll part. who knows on the jv side? i read more as jv and 23 to move up and get OG.

    your buddy woodley traded cojo and bebe to the hornets for lamb and 11 in effort to get OG but he pulled the trigger before the kings picked OG at 10 on the LOCKEDON mock draft pod. i think masai wanted to pull a giannis/kawhi move up to mid-teens for OG and then word went round that OG was falling and no one really wanted JV. who knows? its a guessing game.
    we got the guy that i wanted for 9 months so im happy!

    Comment


    • lewro wrote: View Post
      i agree on the carroll part. who knows on the jv side? i read more as jv and 23 to move up and get OG.

      your buddy woodley traded cojo and bebe to the hornets for lamb and 11 in effort to get OG but he pulled the trigger before the kings picked OG at 10 on the LOCKEDON mock draft pod. i think masai wanted to pull a giannis/kawhi move up to mid-teens for OG and then word went round that OG was falling and no one really wanted JV. who knows? its a guessing game.
      we got the guy that i wanted for 9 months so im happy!
      Agreed.

      To me I think that's exactly what happened. It hit the teens which where OG was loooong suspected to be drafted in. I'm sure as he started making some calls to the teams ahead of him he started to realize that he could be there and just left it alone. I don't think it had anything to do with wanting to dump salary. If there was any truth to that proposed JV/Drummond deal then there's reason to believe that Masai still believes JV has value (besides the beloved "you're better than Drummond" OG ep). While JV may not be a big time player he's not quite as low as to be one that you trade for the sake of cap flexibility. That would more likely be a guy like Corey who also has less time on his contract.

      This far more struck me as Masai wanting to make a "Kawhi-like" trade of a young veteran to a team looking to make the Playoffs in order to get a high upside player that went under the radar like what you mentioned. Personally I don't think OG's upside is quite as high as either BUT I think it's much greater than seemingly what a lot of posters realize.

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      • JamesNaismith wrote: View Post
        Agreed.

        To me I think that's exactly what happened. It hit the teens which where OG was loooong suspected to be drafted in. I'm sure as he started making some calls to the teams ahead of him he started to realize that he could be there and just left it alone. I don't think it had anything to do with wanting to dump salary. If there was any truth to that proposed JV/Drummond deal then there's reason to believe that Masai still believes JV has value (besides the beloved "you're better than Drummond" OG ep). While JV may not be a big time player he's not quite as low as to be one that you trade for the sake of cap flexibility. That would more likely be a guy like Corey who also has less time on his contract.

        This far more struck me as Masai wanting to make a "Kawhi-like" trade of a young veteran to a team looking to make the Playoffs in order to get a high upside player that went under the radar like what you mentioned. Personally I don't think OG's upside is quite as high as either BUT I think it's much greater than seemingly what a lot of posters realize.
        is it a kawhi-like trade or draymond-like slide?

        what's masai gonna say to jv at that point? a) there's no truth to the rumour or b) the deal was not agreed upon. He didn't deny the rumour so it seems like there were negotiations and he's considering to move jv. One thing that does seem recurrent is the trading or proposal to trade plodders for plodders: JV for drummond, nurkic for plumlee, howard for plumlee, lopez for mozgov.

        anyway, based on the grange article, maybe we can get lowry and ibaka for cheaper than expected and then see where we are at with tucker. we might not be that desperate.

        Comment


        • lewro wrote: View Post
          is it a kawhi-like trade or draymond-like slide?

          what's masai gonna say to jv at that point? a) there's no truth to the rumour or b) the deal was not agreed upon. He didn't deny the rumour so it seems like there were negotiations and he's considering to move jv. One thing that does seem recurrent is the trading or proposal to trade plodders for plodders: JV for drummond, nurkic for plumlee, howard for plumlee, lopez for mozgov.

          anyway, based on the grange article, maybe we can get lowry and ibaka for cheaper than expected and then see where we are at with tucker. we might not be that desperate.
          Funny because I would say it was kinda both lol

          I think he was anticipating the need to make a "Kawhi-type" of trade but turned out it was a "Draymond-like" slide. OG on most boards that I had seen had him going top 15 and when he was actually healthy it was top 9 and climbing (because not sure if you recall but he was starting to go on a tear - no pun intended). Again I still think that Masai considers JV to be an asset greater than one used solely for dumping salary like you would with Corey. Because yeah while the trend might be "plodder for plodder", Drummond was an all-star just a year ago and it's quite a stretch to valuing someone so much to turn down a then all-star to just shedding his salary.

          I think he thought it would entice a fringe Playoff team which of course would be a pick in the teens, to add a young veteran like Hill and in this case JV. It was probably a combination of teams not seeing great value in JV and Masai talking to more teams to find out who they planned on taking. When it started becoming more likely OG was on the board there was obviously no need to pursue a trade further.

          Now I do see him trying to shed salary and if so it will likely be Corey because he is of value to teams on an expiring and very reasonable contract for a back up. I think if JV is dangled again in a trade it will again be in attempt to ADD value to our roster (ie/ I could really see us using Corey and JV to S&T for Millsap should we get Kyle and Serge to return). I don't see a GM that extracted some value out of players like Rudy Gay, Andrea Bargnani and Grevais Vasquez just letting Valanciunas go for a bag of peanuts and cap relief, he'll get some type of return. The only player I can see him scrapping is Carroll and even then I think it would be an amnesty, stretch provision or something that allows DC the chance to play somewhere else if he's wanted.

          Comment


          • I'm not holding my breath but there have been consistent insinuations out of the locker room that Carroll's not quite healthy for pretty well his entire tenure here. He's got this offseason and next season will tell if there's any truth to that or if his days as a starter are officially done. If what he had at the end of last year is all he's got left in the tank, then this guy is flat out shot.
            "We're playing in a building." -- Kawhi Leonard

            Comment


            • S.R. wrote: View Post
              I'm not holding my breath but there have been consistent insinuations out of the locker room that Carroll's not quite healthy for pretty well his entire tenure here. He's got this offseason and next season will tell if there's any truth to that or if his days as a starter are officially done. If what he had at the end of last year is all he's got left in the tank, then this guy is flat out shot.
              That's the only thing that's leaving me SLIGHT hope as well. They keep saying he's never been healthy since he's been here. And I also think someone once said it takes like 2 years to FULLY recover from an injury like this at his age. But yea this season would be the absolute last chance I give him. I do think I'm just trying to be optimistic because I know for sure we aren't going to find anyone dumb enough to trade for him. I'll be shocked! So if that's the case I need to be positive just for my sanity because if he's here next season with Casey still here he's definitely starting. SMH
              I relish negativity and disappointment. It is not healthy. Somebody buy me a pony.

              Comment


              • I agree that cojo is a prime target but he doesn't save us much money, especially in the likelihood that we have to take some money back from the other team.
                If Millsap signs for $30m and we traded JV + cojo then we're adding about $8m to our payroll.
                The Rudy deal was an accident, the bargs deal was magic and the Vasquez deal was literally and figuratively OG. I wouldn't put anything past masai but everyone losses sometime. The Carroll signing is a prime example. I have a hard time seeing masai pitching a huge tax bill and stretching Demarre to MLSE. We will see. Based on the Grange article, negotiations might be a little more manageable.
                Oh, and yeah, Drummond was an all star, like JV was poised to be when he dropped 31pts on DET, and Demarre was the LeBron stopper 2 yrs ago. Perceptions and performance can be pretty fickle. Maybe I've been too influenced by all those that are down on the plodders but watching all these stick men being drafted and 3pt wizards and uber-athletes, it's hard not to get swept up in it and remember how the game used to be played. After the draft, I watched smitch talk about how great a pick that swanigan was at 26 bc he could play smash mouth ball and it just felt like an old man lamenting the passing of his youth. Seems like we've entered a new era and the plodders can't defend in it.
                If you were the other team, what would you pay for JV or ask for to take on Carroll?

                Comment


                • lewro wrote: View Post
                  I agree that cojo is a prime target but he doesn't save us much money, especially in the likelihood that we have to take some money back from the other team.
                  If Millsap signs for $30m and we traded JV + cojo then we're adding about $8m to our payroll.
                  The Rudy deal was an accident, the bargs deal was magic and the Vasquez deal was literally and figuratively OG. I wouldn't put anything past masai but everyone losses sometime. The Carroll signing is a prime example. I have a hard time seeing masai pitching a huge tax bill and stretching Demarre to MLSE. We will see. Based on the Grange article, negotiations might be a little more manageable.
                  Oh, and yeah, Drummond was an all star, like JV was poised to be when he dropped 31pts on DET, and Demarre was the LeBron stopper 2 yrs ago. Perceptions and performance can be pretty fickle. Maybe I've been too influenced by all those that are down on the plodders but watching all these stick men being drafted and 3pt wizards and uber-athletes, it's hard not to get swept up in it and remember how the game used to be played. After the draft, I watched smitch talk about how great a pick that swanigan was at 26 bc he could play smash mouth ball and it just felt like an old man lamenting the passing of his youth. Seems like we've entered a new era and the plodders can't defend in it.
                  If you were the other team, what would you pay for JV or ask for to take on Carroll?
                  The only team that can give Millsap $30M is ATL and he will be hard pressed finding teams willing to pay that much. I think realistically Millsap is looking more in the $21-24M area for teams to do a S&T but he opted out both to get him some more years and leave a rebuild but also to ensure the franchise he loves gets something for him since it seems the management was unclear which way they were going, those numbers of course would fall more in line with what Corey + JV make. Of course there could be other teams that would offer more but perhaps Masai can lay some guilt on them for backing out on a deal that was apparently made last year (if I recall there were reports a deal was in place for us to get Millsap until Horford decided to go to BOS). I will admit I think DEN is Millsap's most likely landing spot now though.

                  As for the market for JV, there is no real answer for that. You can't dismiss 3 straight trades like that lol the reality there is a single GM responsible for making those good moves. While I'm certainly not expecting an unprotected 1st like Bargnani, I don't think it's outlandish to think that Masai can find some team who may either trade a collection of more useful pieces like the Rudy trade or a late 1st and 2nd a la Vasquez (still quite unbelievable GV netted us Powell + OG lol).

                  Comment


                  • I'm not as hopefully in Demarres health as I am in his market. Look at this list:

                    http://hoopshype.com/2017/06/15/nba-...mall-forwards/

                    Jeff green and Jan Vesely are both top 20 FAs.
                    A team that needs to get to the cap floor, veteran experience, not an FA destination and wants prospects might take him on.

                    Comment


                    • Masai also signed JaVale, he's human. It's kinda like saying he only drafts Bruno fliers, wins trades/signings. He's not God but Jesus is a better comp

                      I think Millsap is 4/$120m and someone (like Denver) makes a better offer. $21-24m seems more like Ibaka $.

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                      • Oh, ATL can give him 5/$200. His 4 yr max is $150m

                        Comment


                        • ATL pretty much said that thier not going to pay Milsap the max. Milsap will be playing for a different team next year.

                          http://www.basketballinsiders.com/ra...-forwards/amp/

                          Sent from my LG-H831 using Tapatalk
                          Last edited by Chr1s1anL; Tue Jun 27, 2017, 10:26 PM.
                          @Chr1st1anL

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                          • JamesNaismith wrote: View Post
                            Agreed.

                            To me I think that's exactly what happened. It hit the teens which where OG was loooong suspected to be drafted in. I'm sure as he started making some calls to the teams ahead of him he started to realize that he could be there and just left it alone. I don't think it had anything to do with wanting to dump salary. If there was any truth to that proposed JV/Drummond deal then there's reason to believe that Masai still believes JV has value (besides the beloved "you're better than Drummond" OG ep). While JV may not be a big time player he's not quite as low as to be one that you trade for the sake of cap flexibility. That would more likely be a guy like Corey who also has less time on his contract.

                            This far more struck me as Masai wanting to make a "Kawhi-like" trade of a young veteran to a team looking to make the Playoffs in order to get a high upside player that went under the radar like what you mentioned. Personally I don't think OG's upside is quite as high as either BUT I think it's much greater than seemingly what a lot of posters realize.
                            Who's looking forward to the OG on OG?

                            Comment


                            • Chr1s1anL wrote: View Post
                              ATL pretty much said that thier not going to pay Milsap the max. Milsap will be playing for a different team next year.

                              http://www.basketballinsiders.com/ra...-forwards/amp/

                              Sent from my LG-H831 using Tapatalk
                              Exactly what I'm alluding to. Just because they CAN doesn't mean they WILL.

                              Also as I mentioned it's not likely he's coming back and that he's just trying to help them do a S&T to help ATL out. The reality is no team will want to give a 32 year old Millsap who just came back from INJURY this year a $30M/yr contract. I could be wrong but I really think he's going to get somewhere between $21-24M/year, $25M at the highest. The cap wasn't as high as anticipated so teams will likely try to be a bit wiser this off season.

                              Comment


                              • Might not want the stretch provision dragging out for four years. Maybe just play him with the second line against lesser competition, and be done with him in 2 years.

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