Are we seriously not firing Casey???

[Triplethreat89]

If trades including demarre caroll and JV go through, while Casey remains, I'd be ok with that
But if all 3 of them stay... I'd be seriously concerned..

[magoon]

June 6, 2013 he was fired from his head coaching position of the Denver Nuggets. Quick google search shows this.

Karl was indeed fired by Denver. But not by Masai, as Masai had already accepted the Toronto job the week previous.

A few other points:

- Calling Casey a bad coach is stupid. Most of the league considers him to be a very good coach. Most basketball writers consider him to be a very good coach. Calling plays is only one aspect of his job; team management and player development is arguably more important most of the time, and Casey is excellent at those aspects of the job. I mean, seriously, he's simultaneously coaching a serious playoff contender while developing a lineup's worth of young players all at the same time. I think a lot of Raptor fans overlook how insanely difficult it is to do both of those things at the same time.

- More to the point: if you replace Casey, who do you get instead? Because Gregg Popovich, Rick Carlisle and Brad Stevens already have jobs they aren't going to leave. Don't say Ettore Messina, because he just resigned a new deal with San Antonio and is Pop's heir apparent there. Don't say Jerry Stackhouse, because Stack has no experience coaching as a top assistant in the NBA or as a head coach at any other level except for one year in the D-League where he coached a team that was more or less stacked as compared to most of the rest of the league, because the only other team that uses their D-league affiliate as aggressively as the Raptors do to train their rookies is San Antonio. Stack is promising, certainly, but there's no guarantee he'd be any better than Casey at this point and a fair amount of reason to believe he might end up being slightly worse based on inexperience alone.

- I know Masai says he doesn't want the Raps to be a treadmill team, and he doesn't, but he also knows damn well that beating the Warriors or whatever team LeBron plays for requires a frigging miracle at this point. He'll embrace the tank when he feels it's time, which is probably not for another couple of years because prior to this run we had a decade of almost nonstop incompetence and he likely wants to get that out of everybody's heads before commencing a rebuild (which will probably be rapid).

[planetmars]

Masai has yet to fire and hire his own coach. Could be a flaw.. could be a tactic. Not sure. Either way I think this Casey decision came down to $$$. He has a contract and will have a team paying luxury tax. Something had to give.

Generally teams fire coaches when they go through a rebuild. Or if they are so close to the edge and need a change to get over it. Right now there is a chasm between the Raps and the Cavs.. and no new coach will close that gap.

[A.I]

Masai did say he wants a culture reset and he'll give Casey a chance at changing it. I'll give Casey 10 games next season before bringing out the torches and pitchforks.

[c-troop]

Kevin Ollie anyone?

http://www.courant.com/sports/uconn-...127-story.html

"The contract stipulated a $5 million buyout clause if Ollie had moved to the NBA as either a head coach or assistant coach before May 31, 2015. It would be $4 million if he were to do so before May 31, 2016. After that, the buyout clause for the NBA is reduced to $1 million."

[S.R.]

Masai has yet to fire and hire his own coach. Could be a flaw.. could be a tactic. Not sure. Either way I think this Casey decision came down to $$$. He has a contract and will have a team paying luxury tax. Something had to give.

Generally teams fire coaches when they go through a rebuild. Or if they are so close to the edge and need a change to get over it. Right now there is a chasm between the Raps and the Cavs.. and no new coach will close that gap.

It's an interesting position on Ujiri's part, for sure. So often the coach is the first scapegoat, easy to replace. Ujiri seems to take the responsibility for improving the team on himself.

[3inthekeon]

I seem to end up defending Casey far more than I like him, but this is a team that has been very difficult to coach in the modern NBA. When a teams highest usage All Star can't shoot 3's anywhere close to league average and his superior skill is ISO play, good luck playing a modern system without marginalizing that player on the offensive end..

[davywilly]

Karl was indeed fired by Denver. But not by Masai, as Masai had already accepted the Toronto job the week previous.

A few other points:

- Calling Casey a bad coach is stupid. Most of the league considers him to be a very good coach. Most basketball writers consider him to be a very good coach. Calling plays is only one aspect of his job; team management and player development is arguably more important most of the time, and Casey is excellent at those aspects of the job. I mean, seriously, he's simultaneously coaching a serious playoff contender while developing a lineup's worth of young players all at the same time. I think a lot of Raptor fans overlook how insanely difficult it is to do both of those things at the same time.

- More to the point: if you replace Casey, who do you get instead? Because Gregg Popovich, Rick Carlisle and Brad Stevens already have jobs they aren't going to leave. Don't say Ettore Messina, because he just resigned a new deal with San Antonio and is Pop's heir apparent there. Don't say Jerry Stackhouse, because Stack has no experience coaching as a top assistant in the NBA or as a head coach at any other level except for one year in the D-League where he coached a team that was more or less stacked as compared to most of the rest of the league, because the only other team that uses their D-league affiliate as aggressively as the Raptors do to train their rookies is San Antonio. Stack is promising, certainly, but there's no guarantee he'd be any better than Casey at this point and a fair amount of reason to believe he might end up being slightly worse based on inexperience alone.

- I know Masai says he doesn't want the Raps to be a treadmill team, and he doesn't, but he also knows damn well that beating the Warriors or whatever team LeBron plays for requires a frigging miracle at this point. He'll embrace the tank when he feels it's time, which is probably not for another couple of years because prior to this run we had a decade of almost nonstop incompetence and he likely wants to get that out of everybody's heads before commencing a rebuild (which will probably be rapid).

So you think Casey is a good coach


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[TrueTorontoFan]

Karl was indeed fired by Denver. But not by Masai, as Masai had already accepted the Toronto job the week previous.

A few other points:

- Calling Casey a bad coach is stupid. Most of the league considers him to be a very good coach. Most basketball writers consider him to be a very good coach. Calling plays is only one aspect of his job; team management and player development is arguably more important most of the time, and Casey is excellent at those aspects of the job. I mean, seriously, he's simultaneously coaching a serious playoff contender while developing a lineup's worth of young players all at the same time. I think a lot of Raptor fans overlook how insanely difficult it is to do both of those things at the same time.

- More to the point: if you replace Casey, who do you get instead? Because Gregg Popovich, Rick Carlisle and Brad Stevens already have jobs they aren't going to leave. Don't say Ettore Messina, because he just resigned a new deal with San Antonio and is Pop's heir apparent there. Don't say Jerry Stackhouse, because Stack has no experience coaching as a top assistant in the NBA or as a head coach at any other level except for one year in the D-League where he coached a team that was more or less stacked as compared to most of the rest of the league, because the only other team that uses their D-league affiliate as aggressively as the Raptors do to train their rookies is San Antonio. Stack is promising, certainly, but there's no guarantee he'd be any better than Casey at this point and a fair amount of reason to believe he might end up being slightly worse based on inexperience alone.

- I know Masai says he doesn't want the Raps to be a treadmill team, and he doesn't, but he also knows damn well that beating the Warriors or whatever team LeBron plays for requires a frigging miracle at this point. He'll embrace the tank when he feels it's time, which is probably not for another couple of years because prior to this run we had a decade of almost nonstop incompetence and he likely wants to get that out of everybody's heads before commencing a rebuild (which will probably be rapid).

I like Casey, but two people come to mind. Mark Jackson, and Becky Hammond.

[Scraptor]

Masai did say he wants a culture reset and he'll give Casey a chance at changing it. I'll give Casey 10 games next season before bringing out the torches and pitchforks.

The problem is that nobody gives a shit about our culture when we're winning. And we are a proven regular season winner. It happens every year.

What if we start the season 7-3 with isoball? It'll be, you can't fire him, we're winning games aren't we? Winningest coach in franchise history! So we give him another 15-20 games. Then let's say we're 18-12... Still the number one seed in the Atlantic! So another 15 games.... Well, we had some injuries, and you can't change the coach in the middle of the season...

And then we're at the playoffs again.

[JimiCliff]

The problem is that nobody gives a shit about our culture when we're winning. And we are a proven regular season winner. It happens every year.

What if we start the season 7-3 with isoball? It'll be, you can't fire him, we're winning games aren't we? Winningest coach in franchise history! So we give him another 15-20 games. Then let's say we're 18-12... Still the number one seed in the Atlantic! So another 15 games.... Well, we had some injuries, and you can't change the coach in the middle of the season...

And then we're at the playoffs again.

Don't think we'll start the season playing isoball, Masai came out too strong against it.

[Scraptor]

Don't think we'll start the season playing isoball, Masai came out too strong against it.

It will be just like years past. They said we'll involve Jonas, first few games he gets the ball and then the team reverts to its old habits and we play the same way again.

You just can't change the system/culture without changing one of the inputs.

[A.I]

It will be just like years past. They said we'll involve Jonas, first few games he gets the ball and then the team reverts to its old habits and we play the same way again.

You just can't change the system/culture without changing one of the inputs.

And thats when Casey is fired. It seems like the final straw to me. Masai seems determined to change the culture, of course Casey should be fired before the season starts, but he'll get a chance to coach and change the culture.

[CalgaryRapsFan]

Casey should have been fired after the Brooklyn series loss, when his shortcomings first become painfully obvious; reliance on ineffective veterans, too much hero ball, drawing plays up on the wrong side of the court, etc...

[consmap]

Casey should have been fired after the Brooklyn series loss, when his shortcomings first become painfully obvious; reliance on ineffective veterans, too much hero ball, drawing plays up on the wrong side of the court, etc...

Or you know, when they got swept against the Wizards