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Are we seriously not firing Casey???

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  • #31
    A.I wrote: View Post
    And thats when Casey is fired. It seems like the final straw to me. Masai seems determined to change the culture, of course Casey should be fired before the season starts, but he'll get a chance to coach and change the culture.
    Masai says a lot of things.

    April 2015 after the Wizards sweep: "Coach Casey has created or helped create a good culture here.”

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    • #32
      magoon wrote: View Post
      Karl was indeed fired by Denver. But not by Masai, as Masai had already accepted the Toronto job the week previous.

      A few other points:

      - Calling Casey a bad coach is stupid. Most of the league considers him to be a very good coach. Most basketball writers consider him to be a very good coach. Calling plays is only one aspect of his job; team management and player development is arguably more important most of the time, and Casey is excellent at those aspects of the job. I mean, seriously, he's simultaneously coaching a serious playoff contender while developing a lineup's worth of young players all at the same time. I think a lot of Raptor fans overlook how insanely difficult it is to do both of those things at the same time.

      - More to the point: if you replace Casey, who do you get instead? Because Gregg Popovich, Rick Carlisle and Brad Stevens already have jobs they aren't going to leave. Don't say Ettore Messina, because he just resigned a new deal with San Antonio and is Pop's heir apparent there. Don't say Jerry Stackhouse, because Stack has no experience coaching as a top assistant in the NBA or as a head coach at any other level except for one year in the D-League where he coached a team that was more or less stacked as compared to most of the rest of the league, because the only other team that uses their D-league affiliate as aggressively as the Raptors do to train their rookies is San Antonio. Stack is promising, certainly, but there's no guarantee he'd be any better than Casey at this point and a fair amount of reason to believe he might end up being slightly worse based on inexperience alone.

      - I know Masai says he doesn't want the Raps to be a treadmill team, and he doesn't, but he also knows damn well that beating the Warriors or whatever team LeBron plays for requires a frigging miracle at this point. He'll embrace the tank when he feels it's time, which is probably not for another couple of years because prior to this run we had a decade of almost nonstop incompetence and he likely wants to get that out of everybody's heads before commencing a rebuild (which will probably be rapid).
      Basically the same crappy tired defense for Casey I see all the time.

      Keep Casey forever because you're scared to take a chance on a new coach? We already have 100% knowledge of the ceiling of the team with Casey and we have no idea how good this team can be with someone else leading the charge (someone who won't insist on starting worn down players like Carroll or Scola over better options the whole season).

      Pretty much every single one of the league champions of the past took a chance on a new (or relatively new) head coach at the helm.

      There's recent examples like Lue and Kerr, then further back you can see examples such as Larry Brown, Tomjanovich, Phil Jackson, Popovich, and Pat Riley. You can tout the talent they had to work with all you want, but those guys weren't winning anything with those teams until these coaches stepped in.

      Very rarely does a coach hang around as long as Casey with one team and then hope to finally break through eventually.

      It's time to try something new. It's long past that time actually.
      Last edited by tDotted; Tue Jun 27, 2017, 01:24 AM.

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      • #33
        What would be ironic is if Casey gets fired after changing the system and it failing miserably due to something like not fitting the roster we have.

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        • #34
          Here's what I think.

          For the foreseeable future, the Raptors are headed nowhere. The glory days are behind us and I think that's a reality we all have to let sink in. With DeRozan, Carroll, Lowry, and JV/Ibaka. This is not a contender. With the Warriors being as good as they are, the landscape of the NBA is going to change into an arms race where 3-5 teams will gather up all the best players they can find and go at it every May and June for the next 4-5 years. And the Raptors are going to get left behind.

          But while this is all happening, I still have season tickets and damn it I want to be able to enjoy myself when I watch our games. I want to see ball movement! I want to see basketball played the way it was meant to be played and with Casey running our offense that's never going to happen!
          Last edited by ebrian; Tue Jun 27, 2017, 08:38 AM.
          your pal,
          ebrian

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          • #35
            tDotted wrote: View Post
            Basically the same crappy tired defense for Casey I see all the time.

            Keep Casey forever because you're scared to take a chance on a new coach? We already have 100% knowledge of the ceiling of the team with Casey and we have no idea how good this team can be with someone else leading the charge (someone who won't insist on starting worn down players like Carroll or Scola over better options the whole season).

            Pretty much every single one of the league champions of the past took a chance on a new (or relatively new) head coach at the helm.

            There's recent examples like Lue and Kerr, then further back you can see examples such as Larry Brown, Tomjanovich, Phil Jackson, Popovich, and Pat Riley. You can tout the talent they had to work with all you want, but those guys weren't winning anything with those teams until these coaches stepped in.

            Very rarely does a coach hang around as long as Casey with one team and then hope to finally break through eventually.

            It's time to try something new. It's long past that time actually.
            BINGO

            We're constantly being told that the next Gregg Popovich isn't available, then the next Carlisle isn't available, now the next Brad Stevens isn't available. Well guess what, even when he was we said it's better to stick with Casey because who knows if Brad Stevens will be any good.

            If you wait until a coach proves himself you'll never get that coach on your team.

            Clearly Casey is not working on a handful of fronts so why not risk it, we don't really have much to lose. Most coaches could get this team to the playoffs and probably to the 2nd round, it's not like Casey is sole the reason we get there.

            Casey defenders sound like women in an abusive relationship, just break it off. Sure the guy you're with now has a good job and is nice to you when he's not drunk but is that really worth the abuse and late nights crying yourself to sleep. Believe that you can do better! You are woman, hear you roar!!!

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            • #36
              Letter N wrote: View Post
              BINGO

              We're constantly being told that the next Gregg Popovich isn't available, then the next Carlisle isn't available, now the next Brad Stevens isn't available. Well guess what, even when he was we said it's better to stick with Casey because who knows if Brad Stevens will be any good.

              If you wait until a coach proves himself you'll never get that coach on your team.

              Clearly Casey is not working on a handful of fronts so why not risk it, we don't really have much to lose. Most coaches could get this team to the playoffs and probably to the 2nd round, it's not like Casey is sole the reason we get there.

              Casey defenders sound like women in an abusive relationship, just break it off. Sure the guy you're with now has a good job and is nice to you when he's not drunk but is that really worth the abuse and late nights crying yourself to sleep. Believe that you can do better! You are woman, hear you roar!!!
              I don't know about the woman in an abusive relationship analogy, but I tell ya nobody gets quite as worked up around here, as the Casey haters. I don't understand why some of you take it so personally that he's part of this team, but it's no skin off my back so go nuts with the rants.

              I do think this team has hit a plateau and barring an influx of a major talent or roster change the next logical step is to change the system. I'd prefer someone who specializes in that new system to come in and implement it.
              Last edited by LJ2; Tue Jun 27, 2017, 09:59 PM.

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              • #37
                CalgaryRapsFan wrote: View Post
                Casey should have been fired after the Brooklyn series loss, when his shortcomings first become painfully obvious; reliance on ineffective veterans, too much hero ball, drawing plays up on the wrong side of the court, etc...
                Can't disagree. For better or for worse we're stuck with Casey. I'm sure MU would argue he's the winning coach in Raptors history. DC is defacto MU's guy . I am concerned that MU to some degree has settled for playing the cards he has been dealt ---it would be nice to get that ace dealt from the bottom of the deck so to speak . I guess it comes down to waiting for LBJ to have an injury or leave for LA.

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                • #38
                  The time to have canned Casey was either when we get steamrolled by the Wizards or when we were nosediving roughly around mid-season this year. Personally I don't care what justifications anyone wants to make for Casey, I want to move on. Every year there's a new dumb quirk in addition to old stupid habits. Over reliance on veterans/experience valued over results (Bargnani over Ed Davis, Carroll over Powell), poor substitutions, going away from the hot hand (would usually be JV) or overfeeding a cold one (Corey, Carroll or DeRozan), refusing to do anything but iso play (see Lowry's midseason rant) in league of ball movement and shooting, having a line up with zero scoring ability for important stretches of the game, having a single PnR as your offense and the list goes on and on. The bottomline is with his distinct flaws this team will never reach it's potential.

                  If we don't have an immediate "ideal" replacement in mind, I am far more than willing to try out Stackhouse who transformed the 905 from an under .500 team that included Powell playing big minutes, from one that was lucky if it occasionally had Siakam to having one of the best records and winning their championship. Sure we're not talking the highest level of competition but at the same time he found a way to get a group of young players that usually just play like they're trying to make a name for themselves to buy into playing as a TEAM. From the Open Gym, it really seemed like he was preaching ball movement and accountability on defense and also a lot more well spoken than Casey's throaty voice does lol I really don't mean to make fun of Casey because I got nothing against him as a person, actually seems like one of the nicest and well thought people to interview but his style of play and concept of "winning" basketball club is just so far off imo and I don't want any part of that any more.

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                  • #39
                    Ladies and gentleman, boys and and girls and children of all ages are u ready for another year of pound the rock with coach Dwayme Casey,if so,than 1000s on raptors republic and millions wondering..wtf..really..with that, Are u ready, I said are u ready..Aouuuuuuuuhhhhh ready 2 suck it another year of Dwayne Casey Isooooo'sssss..
                    "Never apologize for coming to me. Office hours are for patients.
                    My kitchen is always open to friends"

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                    • #40
                      I spoke to Doug Smith and Michael Grange at the hoops talk event at the Rivoli a couple weeks ago about Casey. Both made it super clear that Casey isn't going anywhere, regardless of the direction the team decides to go. Seems Masai, ownership and the players are quite fond of Casey. I think Casey has atleast earned the right to try to change the offense, a lot of it of course is based on the type of players he has, which is on Masai.

                      Also, if my memory serves me right, Masai could have waited a year to give JV that extension right? Man, wouldn't that extra time have changed things...
                      Sunny ways my friends, sunny ways
                      Because its 2015

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                      • #41
                        Uncle_Si wrote: View Post
                        I spoke to Doug Smith and Michael Grange at the hoops talk event at the Rivoli a couple weeks ago about Casey. Both made it super clear that Casey isn't going anywhere, regardless of the direction the team decides to go. Seems Masai, ownership and the players are quite fond of Casey. I think Casey has atleast earned the right to try to change the offense, a lot of it of course is based on the type of players he has, which is on Masai.

                        Also, if my memory serves me right, Masai could have waited a year to give JV that extension right? Man, wouldn't that extra time have changed things...
                        we'll see how much everyone likes Casey after the team reverts to playing horrible basketball and all the scapegoats are gone.

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                        • #42
                          Uncle_Si wrote: View Post
                          I spoke to Doug Smith and Michael Grange at the hoops talk event at the Rivoli a couple weeks ago about Casey. Both made it super clear that Casey isn't going anywhere, regardless of the direction the team decides to go. Seems Masai, ownership and the players are quite fond of Casey. I think Casey has atleast earned the right to try to change the offense, a lot of it of course is based on the type of players he has, which is on Masai.

                          Also, if my memory serves me right, Masai could have waited a year to give JV that extension right? Man, wouldn't that extra time have changed things...
                          First off, thanks for the info on Casey. Not what most here want to hear, but whatever.

                          Masai could have waited a year on JV, but then it would have been an RFA situation., not extension.

                          Edit: And you're right about the type of players.
                          Last edited by 3inthekeon; Sun Jul 2, 2017, 09:14 PM.
                          If we knew half as much about coaching an NBA team as we think, we"d know twice as much as we do.

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