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Thread: Everything Jakob Poeltl

  1. #21
    Raptors Republic Superstar S.R.'s Avatar
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    I'd like to see Poeltl getting minutes with the team's best players, but I don't put much stock into who actually starts the games. Golden State has helped establish a pretty common practice where your starting 5 is not necessarily your best 5 and is usually not your closing 5.

    A lot of teams start their biggest C, JV is still going to match up to those guys better than a young Poeltl. Like the Raptors, a lot of teams go away from that guy as the game goes on, and other forwards are likely to end up with more minutes at the 5 than JV in a given game anyway, but that's more likely to be Ibaka than Poeltl at this point. Poeltl just needs more minutes and a bigger role than last year, but he's young and needs to get in-game reps. He's just coming off his rookie season, there's lots of time.
    "Control DeRozan's catch-shoot game. He rarely passes. Defend the ball. Much of what they do reverses to 1 on 1 play." -- Visitor Locker Room Whiteboard, Air Canada Centre, Feb. 26, 2015

    "52/8/5/1/1" -- Jan. 1, 2018

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  3. #22
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    I'm interested in the perception that Poeltl is a significantly better passer than JV.

    Like, it's basically impossible for a big man to get assists in this system anyway, but consider this:

    JV: 19.5 USG%, 4.4 AST%, 4.4 USG/AST
    JP: 12.1 USG%, 2.7 AST%, 4.5 USG/AST

    Just something I stumbled on looking at Poeltl's numbers (which based on sentiment was expecting to be very different) while searching for that pass to Carroll in the corner.

  4. #23
    Raptors Republic Veteran MixxAOR's Avatar
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    Quote DanH wrote: View Post
    I'm interested in the perception that Poeltl is a significantly better passer than JV.

    Like, it's basically impossible for a big man to get assists in this system anyway, but consider this:

    JV: 19.5 USG%, 4.4 AST%, 4.4 USG/AST
    JP: 12.1 USG%, 2.7 AST%, 4.5 USG/AST

    Just something I stumbled on looking at Poeltl's numbers (which based on sentiment was expecting to be very different) while searching for that pass to Carroll in the corner.
    Dan I have no idea how to interpret those stats

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    Quote MixxAOR wrote: View Post
    Dan I have no idea how to interpret those stats
    Sorry, USG% is usage rate, a measure of how many plays a player finishes, and used as an estimate of how involved a player is in the offence (with the exception of PG's, who typically have disproportionate assist rates).

    AST% is the percent of the field goals scored while the player is on the court that are assisted by them.

    I took a simple ratio of the two (how much the player is used in general, versus how much they generate assists) to normalize the numbers relative to each other, as you'd kind of expect a guy who gets the ball more to generate more assists, right?

    I was just showing that the amount of possessions Poeltl needs to use to generate an assist is basically identical to the amount JV uses to generate an assist. I was surprised by that, is all.

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  7. #25
    Raptors Republic Hall of Famer Chr1s1anL's Avatar
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    You don't need stats to tell you that Yak has a better feel for the game than JV. You can just tell by watching them play.

    Sent from my LG-H831 using Tapatalk
    @Chr1st1anL

  8. #26
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    Quote DanH wrote: View Post
    Sorry, USG% is usage rate, a measure of how many plays a player finishes, and used as an estimate of how involved a player is in the offence (with the exception of PG's, who typically have disproportionate assist rates).

    AST% is the percent of the field goals scored while the player is on the court that are assisted by them.

    I took a simple ratio of the two (how much the player is used in general, versus how much they generate assists) to normalize the numbers relative to each other, as you'd kind of expect a guy who gets the ball more to generate more assists, right?

    I was just showing that the amount of possessions Poeltl needs to use to generate an assist is basically identical to the amount JV uses to generate an assist. I was surprised by that, is all.
    i had originally interpreted it as them being 4.5x as likely to end a posession as to record an assist, but i am now realizing that wasn't correct.

  9. #27
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    Quote KHD wrote: View Post
    i had originally interpreted it as them being 4.5x as likely to end a posession as to record an assist, but i am now realizing that wasn't correct.
    No, that's a valid interpretation as well. Roughly, anyway. I wasn't really looking at it to judge that way, more to compare the two players, but I think that lines up with what I did.

  10. #28
    Raptors Republic Starter Quirk's Avatar
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    Quote Chr1s1anL wrote: View Post
    You don't need stats to tell you that Yak has a better feel for the game than JV. You can just tell by watching them play.
    So True! You can easily be wrong about absolutely everything without ever using a single stat! When it comes to mindless conviction to wild unsubstantiated beliefs, stats are absolutely useless!! Nobody has done more to prove this true fact than Chr1s1anL

    However, if you are interested to see if your impressions hold up to actual facts, stats can sometimes be helpful.

  11. #29
    Raptors Republic Superstar S.R.'s Avatar
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    Quote Quirk wrote: View Post
    So True! You can easily be wrong about absolutely everything without ever using a single stat! When it comes to mindless conviction to wild unsubstantiated beliefs, stats are absolutely useless!! Nobody has done more to prove this true fact than Chr1s1anL

    However, if you are interested to see if your impressions hold up to actual facts, stats can sometimes be helpful.
    There's a deep metaphorical connection between your comment and your avatar, but I can't quite put it into words.
    "Control DeRozan's catch-shoot game. He rarely passes. Defend the ball. Much of what they do reverses to 1 on 1 play." -- Visitor Locker Room Whiteboard, Air Canada Centre, Feb. 26, 2015

    "52/8/5/1/1" -- Jan. 1, 2018

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  13. #30
    Raptors Republic Hall of Famer Chr1s1anL's Avatar
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    Quote Quirk wrote: View Post
    So True! You can easily be wrong about absolutely everything without ever using a single stat! When it comes to mindless conviction to wild unsubstantiated beliefs, stats are absolutely useless!! Nobody has done more to prove this true fact than Chr1s1anL

    However, if you are interested to see if your impressions hold up to actual facts, stats can sometimes be helpful.
    If you look deep enough. You can find a stat to fit any narritive. Eye test is still the best way to judge a player.

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    Raptors Republic Superstar Puffer's Avatar
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    [QUOTE=Chr1s1anL;762726]If you look deep enough. You can find a stat to fit any narritive. Eye test is still the best way to judge a player.

    Sent from my LG

    Assuming you have a deep understanding of the game, it's strategy, it's tactics and the required skill sets. You must also be extremely objective and not allow biases based on team affiliation or other emotional connections sway your judgment. Aside from those minor qualifications, I would agree with you 100%.

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  16. #32
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    [QUOTE=Puffer;762773]
    Quote Chr1s1anL wrote: View Post
    If you look deep enough. You can find a stat to fit any narritive. Eye test is still the best way to judge a player.

    Sent from my LG

    Assuming you have a deep understanding of the game, it's strategy, it's tactics and the required skill sets. You must also be extremely objective and not allow biases based on team affiliation or other emotional connections sway your judgment. Aside from those minor qualifications, I would agree with you 100%.
    I remember a poster here a couple of years ago complaining that Hansbro never boxed out his man. Within a couple of days there was a Vantage Sports article ( company that broke down game film) about how the only reason Hansbro was even competent at C was that he almost always boxed out.

    Yeah, most people see what they want to see and disregard the rest. And they don't need stats. And their opinions are basically meaningless.
    If we knew half as much about coaching an NBA team as we think, we"d know twice as much as we do.

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  18. #33
    Raptors Republic Superstar Mess's Avatar
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    Take a look at those pits.
    Two beer away from being two beers away.

  19. #34
    Raptors Republic Hall of Famer KeonClark's Avatar
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    Quote Chr1s1anL wrote: View Post
    You don't need stats to tell you that Yak has a better feel for the game than JV. You can just tell by watching them play.

    Sent from my LG-H831 using Tapatalk
    JV, Casey, Derozan...you gotta fuck one kill one and marry one...oh this is too easy for you
    11/20/16 Lest we forget - The Sacramento Screw Job.
    We will not go quietly in the night. We will rage against the dying light. We will study every buzzer beater with intensified might, because somethin with the NBA doesn't smell right.

  20. #35
    Raptors Republic Hall of Famer Chr1s1anL's Avatar
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    Quote KeonClark wrote: View Post
    JV, Casey, Derozan...you gotta fuck one kill one and marry one...oh this is too easy for you
    How old are you?

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  21. #36
    Raptors Republic Veteran Jangles's Avatar
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    Lol

  22. #37
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    Quote Chr1s1anL wrote: View Post
    If you look deep enough. You can find a stat to fit any narritive. Eye test is still the best way to judge a player.

    Sent from my LG-H831 using Tapatalk
    Find me a stat that says Andrea Bargnani was a great rebounder for his size.

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  24. #38
    Raptors Republic Hall of Famer Nilanka's Avatar
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    Quote golden wrote: View Post
    Find me a stat that says Andrea Bargnani was a great rebounder for his size.
    Possible if you restrict yourself to a 13 game sample

  25. #39
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    Quote S.R. wrote: View Post
    There's a deep metaphorical connection between your comment and your avatar, but I can't quite put it into words.
    Perceptive!

  26. #40
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    Quote Nilanka wrote: View Post
    Possible if you restrict yourself to a 13 game sample
    Also possible if you categorize "his size" as "bigger than a breadbox"

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