Our lack of a 3/big-wing defender is a serious problem.

[Shaolin Fantastic]

Why is it when anyone says anything negative about the team they're just brushed aside as complaining?

[GLF]

Ok GLF, since you like to complain about everything - what would you do if you're Masai Ujiri?

I actually think Masai did a great job, other than losing out on PJ which wasn't his fault because we offered more money. I like our team and I like that the young guys will FINALLY get consistent playing time. It will only make us better in the future. I'm just saying our defence just isn't going to be as good, and if our offence goes down the drain during the playoffs as usual WHILE our defence has already fallen to middle of the pack we most likely won't get very far in the playoffs, even if we don't meet Cleveland early. That's all. I do think our defence will be very good in the future when these young guys get more experience and mature in mind and body. Mainly because almost if not all of our young guys have lots of defensive potential. But I'm happy with our offseason and excited about the season. Realistically we couldn't do much this offseason and we all knew this.

[GLF]

If we're being real our defence has been one of the biggest reasons we've been able to get far in the playoffs even with how much our offence falters. If our defence falls to middle of the pack that could really hurt us in the playoffs. UNLESS for the first time in 4 playoff appearances with Casey as the coach our offence actually holds through and we continue moving the ball in the playoffs as well. That's just how I'm looking at it. Dan says that's way too of a simplistic way to look at it and hopefully he's right.

[Demographic Shift]

Why is it when anyone says anything negative about the team they're just brushed aside as complaining?

There's warranted criticism..and then there are instances of years worth of harping and whining on the same tired themes. It's not so much of being brushed aside as it is of abject boredom of the reading the same old.

After playing at better than a.630 clip on aggregate over the last three seasons it's hard to reconcile that hard statistic to the oft bleated cries that this band of stumblebums can't play either offence or defence...are coached by a fool...are managed by a village idiot....and that there are no players who are worthy of all star status despite two being voted that honour for three years.

See the post above this one for context. Yawn.

Something to consider ?

[DanH]

If we're being real our defence has been one of the biggest reasons we've been able to get far in the playoffs even with how much our offence falters. If our defence falls to middle of the pack that could really hurt us in the playoffs. UNLESS for the first time in 4 playoff appearances with Casey as the coach our offence actually holds through and we continue moving the ball in the playoffs as well. That's just how I'm looking at it. Dan says that's way too of a simplistic way to look at it and hopefully he's right.

The Raptors defence has always been really good (2014-15 excepted). Why are we assuming it ends up middle of the pack? And it should be noted that "middle of the pack" tends to be 1 or 2 PPC worse than "top 10." It's really not indicative of the ability to defend a specific matchup. And our solid defence has never been dependant on elite individual defenders - I mean, yeah, you throw one or two (like Ibaka and Tucker) into the system and you can accomplish great things, and I fully expect Ibaka to continue to help in that area, but largely the team has managed a solid defence regardless of personnel. Heck, up until Lowry got hurt in 2014-15, they were posting above average defensive ratings, with Vasquez and Lou and frankly a whole team full of poor defenders.

I'd expect the team to be borderline top 10 in defence once again, but even if they are a couple points short, the key is they do have the pieces to defend any opponent with some degree of success, and frankly are less tied down to poor options like Carroll or Scola like in the past.

Like, the Raptors finished the season with a top 10 DRTG, including an incredible streak of elite defence leading into the playoffs. And of course gave up a 109 DRTG in the first few games against the Bucks. Then made an adjustment, and ran out a 97 DRTG the rest of the way. The team from the first few games was the same team that ran out a top 10 defence during the season. Yes, you want to have a defence that's at least in range of the better defences in the league. But although generically good defences sometimes translate to good defensive performances in the playoffs, just as often they do not. Because the defensive scheme you run out on a night to night basis has little to do with how you defend a specific team.

If you had to guess which team had the worst defensive rating of any team in the playoffs, who would you guess?

If you guessed the grit and grind Memphis Grizzlies, owners of the 7th best regular season defence, you win. And you see my point.

[GLF]

The Raptors defence has always been really good (2014-15 excepted). Why are we assuming it ends up middle of the pack? And it should be noted that "middle of the pack" tends to be 1 or 2 PPC worse than "top 10." It's really not indicative of the ability to defend a specific matchup. And our solid defence has never been dependant on elite individual defenders - I mean, yeah, you throw one or two (like Ibaka and Tucker) into the system and you can accomplish great things, and I fully expect Ibaka to continue to help in that area, but largely the team has managed a solid defence regardless of personnel. Heck, up until Lowry got hurt in 2014-15, they were posting above average defensive ratings, with Vasquez and Lou and frankly a whole team full of poor defenders.

I'd expect the team to be borderline top 10 in defence once again, but even if they are a couple points short, the key is they do have the pieces to defend any opponent with some degree of success, and frankly are less tied down to poor options like Carroll or Scola like in the past.

Like, the Raptors finished the season with a top 10 DRTG, including an incredible streak of elite defence leading into the playoffs. And of course gave up a 109 DRTG in the first few games against the Bucks. Then made an adjustment, and ran out a 97 DRTG the rest of the way. The team from the first few games was the same team that ran out a top 10 defence during the season. Yes, you want to have a defence that's at least in range of the better defences in the league. But although generically good defences sometimes translate to good defensive performances in the playoffs, just as often they do not. Because the defensive scheme you run out on a night to night basis has little to do with how you defend a specific team.

If you had to guess which team had the worst defensive rating of any team in the playoffs, who would you guess?

If you guessed the grit and grind Memphis Grizzlies, owners of the 7th best regular season defence, you win. And you see my point.

Your point about us not ever really having elite defenders on our team and still being a good defensive team is really good. I never thought of it like that. I'm just assuming we become middle of the pack because we have so many young inexperienced guys that are going to get big minutes. That's not something we've had in the past. Not having a Scola or Carroll type of player will definitely help though. You've eased my mind a bit and I do agree we can matchup well with anyone in the East not named Cleveland. We figured out Milwaukee already to an extent. So if that holds true we should be fine

[golden]

The Raptors defence has always been really good (2014-15 excepted). Why are we assuming it ends up middle of the pack? And it should be noted that "middle of the pack" tends to be 1 or 2 PPC worse than "top 10." It's really not indicative of the ability to defend a specific matchup. And our solid defence has never been dependant on elite individual defenders - I mean, yeah, you throw one or two (like Ibaka and Tucker) into the system and you can accomplish great things, and I fully expect Ibaka to continue to help in that area, but largely the team has managed a solid defence regardless of personnel. Heck, up until Lowry got hurt in 2014-15, they were posting above average defensive ratings, with Vasquez and Lou and frankly a whole team full of poor defenders.

I'd expect the team to be borderline top 10 in defence once again, but even if they are a couple points short, the key is they do have the pieces to defend any opponent with some degree of success, and frankly are less tied down to poor options like Carroll or Scola like in the past.

Like, the Raptors finished the season with a top 10 DRTG, including an incredible streak of elite defence leading into the playoffs. And of course gave up a 109 DRTG in the first few games against the Bucks. Then made an adjustment, and ran out a 97 DRTG the rest of the way. The team from the first few games was the same team that ran out a top 10 defence during the season. Yes, you want to have a defence that's at least in range of the better defences in the league. But although generically good defences sometimes translate to good defensive performances in the playoffs, just as often they do not. Because the defensive scheme you run out on a night to night basis has little to do with how you defend a specific team.

If you had to guess which team had the worst defensive rating of any team in the playoffs, who would you guess?

If you guessed the grit and grind Memphis Grizzlies, owners of the 7th best regular season defence, you win. And you see my point.

Didn't Tony Allen get injured on the last day of the season for the Girzz? Losing the Grindfather for the playoffs might have had something to do with that. Meanwhile, we added our best player heading into the playoffs.

And let's face it, we have to put an asterix on league-wide rankings, since the Western conference doesn't get the opportunity to play the Sixers, Nets and Knicks 4 times a year.

[LJ2]

I actually think Masai did a great job, other than losing out on PJ which wasn't his fault because we offered more money. I like our team and I like that the young guys will FINALLY get consistent playing time. It will only make us better in the future. I'm just saying our defence just isn't going to be as good, and if our offence goes down the drain during the playoffs as usual WHILE our defence has already fallen to middle of the pack we most likely won't get very far in the playoffs, even if we don't meet Cleveland early. That's all. I do think our defence will be very good in the future when these young guys get more experience and mature in mind and body. Mainly because almost if not all of our young guys have lots of defensive potential. But I'm happy with our offseason and excited about the season. Realistically we couldn't do much this offseason and we all knew this.

One thing to keep in mind is that when all else fails the Raptors can fall back on plan B, and playing a half court game. They still have JV and with Ibaka they are pretty big. They are more talented than majority of the teams in the East and playing big, at a slower pace can get them to the ECF if they don't meet the CAV's first.

[DanH]

[/B]

Didn't Tony Allen get injured on the last day of the season for the Girzz? Losing the Grindfather for the playoffs might have had something to do with that. Meanwhile, we added our best player heading into the playoffs.

And let's face it, we have to put an asterix on league-wide rankings, since the Western conference doesn't get the opportunity to play the Sixers, Nets and Knicks 4 times a year.

Yes, they did. Of course, that can happen to anyone.

Anyway, my point is not constrained to the Grizzlies. The Bucks had the best DRTG of any team in the playoffs. They ranked 19th in-season. They just happened to come up with a strategy that worked great on the Raptors. The Wizards were 20th in defence in the regular season and 7th in the playoffs. Bulls went from the 6th ranked defence to middle of the playoff pack.

My point is, some very good regular season defences end up being nothing special in the playoffs, and vice versa. Yes, you want to be as good a defensive team as possible, but it's not some guarantee one way or the other.

As for the asterisk, there are sites that adjust ratings for strength of schedule, and I tend to do my own adjustment live throughout the season. So that's covered. Usually by the end of the season, there's not much variance even with the schedule differences.

[Shaolin Fantastic]

There's warranted criticism..and then there are instances of years worth of harping and whining on the same tired themes. It's not so much of being brushed aside as it is of abject boredom of the reading the same old.

After playing at better than a.630 clip on aggregate over the last three seasons it's hard to reconcile that hard statistic to the oft bleated cries that this band of stumblebums can't play either offence or defence...are coached by a fool...are managed by a village idiot....and that there are no players who are worthy of all star status despite two being voted that honour for three years.

See the post above this one for context. Yawn.

Something to consider ?

But I didn't say any of that? I'm just talking about a specific point of weakness. A big three defender. And I mentioned in my post that LeBron is going to get his offense regardless. But a top tier guy at this level like Tucker can actually have a significant effect on the productivity of guys like Hayward and Giannis (as we saw last year).

[ebrian]

As much as I want to be excited about the next gem that Masai has plucked out of this draft, I think we have to be a little realistic in saying that:

(1) Realistically, how many NBA rookies play elite NBA defense in their rookie season?
(2) How many scouting reports have we ready over the last 10 years about a kid who was NBA-ready and how many of them were? (3) With OG recovering from injury, realistically, how soon could he even play at NBA speed, NBA minutes?

I think we should be just brutally honest with ourselves when talking about OG's "NBA-Ready defense". How many times have I heard/read that a player was NBA-ready? Lottery pick or not, we've heard this term bounced around way too much. There is just no possible way that a rookie could enter the league ready for the NBA without playing against NBA players. OG didn't even do summer league. For me, I'm looking at OG as a player who will compete for minutes with Bruno..

[Shaolin Fantastic]

As much as I want to be excited about the next gem that Masai has plucked out of this draft, I think we have to be a little realistic in saying that:

(1) Realistically, how many NBA rookies play elite NBA defense in their rookie season?
(2) How many scouting reports have we ready over the last 10 years about a kid who was NBA-ready and how many of them were? (3) With OG recovering from injury, realistically, how soon could he even play at NBA speed, NBA minutes?

I think we should be just brutally honest with ourselves when talking about OG's "NBA-Ready defense". How many times have I heard/read that a player was NBA-ready? Lottery pick or not, we've heard this term bounced around way too much. There is just no possible way that a rookie could enter the league ready for the NBA without playing against NBA players. OG didn't even do summer league. For me, I'm looking at OG as a player who will compete for minutes with Bruno..

Yep. This is why I don't understand people like Christian who type in "OG and Ibaka" and then just walk away like the problem is solved. OG is not going to be some stopper from day 1 especially coming off an injury.

[DanH]

Yep. This is why I don't understand people like Christian who type in "OG and Ibaka" and then just walk away like the problem is solved. OG is not going to be some stopper from day 1 especially coming off an injury.

To be fair, no one expects him to be. They are looking at what he might be capable of with a solid chunk of the season already under his belt, similar to how Powell had an impact in his first playoffs.

He's certainly more a solution to the issue in future, it's a small hole this year, and I think not all that consequential to the Raps' chances.

[DanH]

But I didn't say any of that? I'm just talking about a specific point of weakness. A big three defender. And I mentioned in my post that LeBron is going to get his offense regardless. But a top tier guy at this level like Tucker can actually have a significant effect on the productivity of guys like Hayward and Giannis (as we saw last year).

What? Tucker was the right guy to play against Giannis, but it's not like he really had any effect.

In that Bucks series...

Giannis against Tucker: 57% TS%, USG 30%
Giannis while Tucker sat: 55% TS%, USG 30%

The real difference against the Bucks was exactly what I'm talking about - having the ability to implement a strategy and having the flexibility to do so. Giannis scored at an almost identical rate in the first three games versus the last three, in terms of efficiency and usage. But the Bucks got destroyed in those last three. With Powell and Carroll starting against Giannis in all of them. Giannis played 49% of his minutes against Tucker in those final three games where the Raptors handled the Bucks, and... 49% of his minutes against Tucker in the first three games where the Bucks ripped the Raptors to shreds. He was not the difference against Giannis or the Bucks. He should certainly have played more matched up with LeBron. But we aren't talking LeBron - that's a whole other mountain. We're talking Hayward and Giannis - neither of whom you need a PJ Tucker to guard, not by a long shot.

[Demographic Shift]

There's warranted criticism..and then there are instances of years worth of harping and whining on the same tired themes. It's not so much of being brushed aside as it is of abject boredom of the reading the same old.

After playing at better than a.630 clip on aggregate over the last three seasons it's hard to reconcile that hard statistic to the oft bleated cries that this band of stumblebums can't play either offence or defence...are coached by a fool...are managed by a village idiot....and that there are no players who are worthy of all star status despite two being voted that honour for three years.

See the post above this one for context. Yawn.

Something to consider ?

But I didn't say any of that? I'm just talking about a specific point of weakness. A big three defender. And I mentioned in my post that LeBron is going to get his offense regardless. But a top tier guy at this level like Tucker can actually have a significant effect on the productivity of guys like Hayward and Giannis (as we saw last year).

Was giving a perspective on why at times negative comments are met with indifference...not shutting down the thought that the Raps may have a gap on wing defence with current personnel...

The east had some really big 3s last year...and really really good.
George, Lebron, Butler, Anthony, and to a degree a mismatch in Giannas Alphabet-antakumpo....

But gone are George and Butler...
Carmelo has been an allstar game changer more than he will be going forward..
which leaves..Hayward ..

Gord the Indecisive is new and may yet put the fear of god in me but nothing like George and Butler did.

Giannas strength is putting the ball on the floor and in transition..Powell can front him and make him shoot from outside which isn't his strength which is a credible strategy. At least to me.

And for Lebron .....who is entering his 15th season...no one in the league has found an answer yet so the Raps are in good company. Father Time is the only defender that has a chance against that guy and as Lebron turns 33 this year..Father Time is closing the gap.

This gives time to the bigger wing stopper ..OG...to learn a bit before he steps into the breach.