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Thread: Combining the Raptors with another team, Can we beat the Cavs? Warriors?

  1. #21
    Raptors Republic Superstar Mess's Avatar
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    If you combined all 14 non-playoff teams, could they beat GS?
    Two beer away from being two beers away.

  2. #22
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    Quote ebrian wrote: View Post
    I don't see it. A generational big man won't make a difference against this Warriors team. The way they play, and their strengths, there's just no stopping them with a big man. You basically need two Lebron's to do it and there's only one and he couldn't do it.
    Disagreed and it's not saying that the big man is the key to beating them but rather a big piece.

    Two "LeBron's" isn't the answer either.

    Both teams followed the same formula...

    1. A dynamic player that collapses the defense and finds one of their plethora of open shooters(ie/ LeBron and Curry)
    2. It kind of reinterates the last point but surround them with shooters (ie/ Kyrie, Love, Frye, JR etc) and (Klay, Draymond, Iggy, Barnes etc)
    3. Have a great perimeter defender that can switch to post (ie/ LeBron and Green) while the rest are tall/long enough to switch as well
    4. An energy big to rebound and defend (Thompson and Bogut)
    5. A clutch scorer to match Steph or Klay which of course was Kyrie
    6. Be able to match scoring LeBron & Kyrie vs Steph & Klay....and Love vs Green. Cavs advantage is Kyrie can match Steph, LBJ obv an edge over Klay and Love/Green can cancel each other out....big problem here the Warriors went and added a 7ft 30ppg shooting assassin in KD who is also a much improved defender and arguably now their best player

    KD was shooting OVER LeBron and getting to the RIM at will...

    The Cavs (or any team for that matter need to match all those things listed PLUS the addition of KD). A player like a healthy Embiid would do that. Joel is actually a pretty damn good 3 pt shooter AND provides arguably THE best defense in the league. I can't remember the site that did the article but it showed that PHI went from being the worst defending team in the league to TOP 5 when Biid was on the court, that's absurd, no player caused such a dramatic shift. His combination of height and quickness is unbelievably rare which is what causes that, not to mention his per 40 stats he's almost a 30ppg, 11rpg and 3.7bpg.

    The issue this past year is the Cavs have no answer to KD, if they suddenly had a player that could almost equal the scoring output PLUS cause GS to rack up fouls because no one can guard Embiid AND he's shutting down any penetration plus making many of their jumpers very difficult...suddenly GS would have a MAJOR problem and that's why there is so much excitement about Philly's potential (obviously based almost solely on their health) because they are trying to design a team that can try and create that very dynamic....Fultz being the clutch one on one scorer like a (not exact) Kyrie, Simmons to mimic that dynamic ballhandler that collapses the defence and Embiid a big time scorer in his own right and monsterous defender...whom they've also surrounded with shooters like Reddick, Korkmaz, Saric, RoCo etc.

    The very ironic thing about this discussion is that you say "2 LeBrons" and I say that he needs an "Embiid" while Philly has cap space and is about as perfect of a market as he can get with a "story" dramatic enough to fit a LBJ legacy about reviving a dead franchise....but of course HEALTH will be the biggest determining factor.


    #TRUSTTHEPROCESS

  3. #23
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    Quote JamesNaismith wrote: View Post
    Disagreed and it's not saying that the big man is the key to beating them but rather a big piece.

    Two "LeBron's" isn't the answer either.

    Both teams followed the same formula...

    1. A dynamic player that collapses the defense and finds one of their plethora of open shooters(ie/ LeBron and Curry)
    2. It kind of reinterates the last point but surround them with shooters (ie/ Kyrie, Love, Frye, JR etc) and (Klay, Draymond, Iggy, Barnes etc)
    3. Have a great perimeter defender that can switch to post (ie/ LeBron and Green) while the rest are tall/long enough to switch as well
    4. An energy big to rebound and defend (Thompson and Bogut)
    5. A clutch scorer to match Steph or Klay which of course was Kyrie
    6. Be able to match scoring LeBron & Kyrie vs Steph & Klay....and Love vs Green. Cavs advantage is Kyrie can match Steph, LBJ obv an edge over Klay and Love/Green can cancel each other out....big problem here the Warriors went and added a 7ft 30ppg shooting assassin in KD who is also a much improved defender and arguably now their best player

    KD was shooting OVER LeBron and getting to the RIM at will...

    The Cavs (or any team for that matter need to match all those things listed PLUS the addition of KD). A player like a healthy Embiid would do that. Joel is actually a pretty damn good 3 pt shooter AND provides arguably THE best defense in the league. I can't remember the site that did the article but it showed that PHI went from being the worst defending team in the league to TOP 5 when Biid was on the court, that's absurd, no player caused such a dramatic shift. His combination of height and quickness is unbelievably rare which is what causes that, not to mention his per 40 stats he's almost a 30ppg, 11rpg and 3.7bpg.

    The issue this past year is the Cavs have no answer to KD, if they suddenly had a player that could almost equal the scoring output PLUS cause GS to rack up fouls because no one can guard Embiid AND he's shutting down any penetration plus making many of their jumpers very difficult...suddenly GS would have a MAJOR problem and that's why there is so much excitement about Philly's potential (obviously based almost solely on their health) because they are trying to design a team that can try and create that very dynamic....Fultz being the clutch one on one scorer like a (not exact) Kyrie, Simmons to mimic that dynamic ballhandler that collapses the defence and Embiid a big time scorer in his own right and monsterous defender...whom they've also surrounded with shooters like Reddick, Korkmaz, Saric, RoCo etc.

    The very ironic thing about this discussion is that you say "2 LeBrons" and I say that he needs an "Embiid" while Philly has cap space and is about as perfect of a market as he can get with a "story" dramatic enough to fit a LBJ legacy about reviving a dead franchise....but of course HEALTH will be the biggest determining factor.


    #TRUSTTHEPROCESS
    When a team can play 5-out, it negates the impact of a rim-protecting big man - we saw that with Rudy Gobert in the playoffs. So, basically you need Embiid to completely dominate his matchup with Draymond on both ends.... but you're at a disadvantage trading 2's for 3's on offense, even though Embiid CAN hit 3's - it's not his strength. So then it also comes down to Embiid's ability to guard Draymond on the perimeter, in which case you probably have better choices on defense.

  4. #24
    Raptors Republic Hall of Famer TRex's Avatar
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    Quote ebrian wrote: View Post
    I don't see it. A generational big man won't make a difference against this Warriors team. The way they play, and their strengths, there's just no stopping them with a big man. You basically need two Lebron's to do it and there's only one and he couldn't do it.
    So you're saying, Olajuwon in their prime or Shaq won't make a difference against this Warriors team? I completely disagree. Olajuwon or Shaq would completely DOMINATE this Warriors team.

  5. #25
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    Fixed the title ... was driving me insane. Lol

  6. #26
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    And the answer to this thread is the definitely TWolves. Fills gaps and adds crazy depth... and well.. KAT.

  7. #27
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    you need a great scoring team to beat the Cav's.

    Lowry, Bledsoe
    Booker, DeRozan
    CJ Miles, Josh Jackson
    Ibaka, Dudley
    Chandler, JV

  8. #28
    Raptors Republic Starter c-troop's Avatar
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    Raptors + Charlotte

    Lowry - Kemba
    DeRozan - Powell
    Batum - MKG
    Williams - Kaminsky
    Ibaka - Valanciunas

    ...or just use the Raptors starting 5 as the 'starters' and utilize the Hornets starting 5 as the bench.

  9. #29
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    Quote golden wrote: View Post
    When a team can play 5-out, it negates the impact of a rim-protecting big man - we saw that with Rudy Gobert in the playoffs. So, basically you need Embiid to completely dominate his matchup with Draymond on both ends.... but you're at a disadvantage trading 2's for 3's on offense, even though Embiid CAN hit 3's - it's not his strength. So then it also comes down to Embiid's ability to guard Draymond on the perimeter, in which case you probably have better choices on defense.
    Embiid would eat him up, he shoots the 3 better than Draymond and Joel could easily handle Draymond defensively are you kidding?! He is one of the elite defenders in the league at 7'2 and handles the perimeter no problem. He has great lateral speed for a man his size that keeps him in front of perimeter players, recovers quickly, frequently has chase down blocks (see Embiid block LBJ for reference) and incredibly long that will negate whatever minor speed advantage nvm trying to shoot over his height/length will be incredibly difficult for anyone....let me repeat that again, PHI with Embiid off the court was damn near bottom of the league, on court NUMBER 1 IN THE ENTIRE LEAGUE, in a perimeter oriented league that's not just "rim protection". On the flipside goodluck 6'6 Draymond trying to contain a 7'2 monster.



    Last edited by JamesNaismith; Thu Aug 10th, 2017 at 02:27 AM.

  10. #30
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    Quote Joey wrote: View Post
    Fixed the title ... was driving me insane. Lol
    Sweet Jesus thank you
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  11. #31
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    Quote Joey wrote: View Post
    And the answer to this thread is the definitely TWolves. Fills gaps and adds crazy depth... and well.. KAT.
    It's Denver..... how is nobody seeing how good Denver's team fixes our holes & would be deadly on the court together.


    PG: Lowry, Nelson, Wright, Murray, FVV, Morris, Mudiay. That's quite a few floor generals & each gives us a solid player except maybe Mudiay. Even then, the Nuggets have a great PG core that meshes nicely with ours.

    SG: Derozan, Powell, Harris, Barton, Craig, Beasley. Just looking at the 1st 4 names, that's a formidable group of guys. Both Harris & Barton are underrated SG's with either providing you with scoring & defense, much like Powell already does. This also allows us to go small at the 3 very very easily.

    SF: Chandler, Miles, McKinnie, Anunoby, Caboclo. Wilson Chandler gives us that SF the Raptors really lack in terms of size. Meanwhile, we give the Nuggets SF depth, something they actually lack.

    PF: Ibaka, Millsap, Faried, Siakam, Hermangomez, Arthur, Lydon. Ibaka & Millsap alone is scary..... add in a solid vet & a both of young depth in just really nice, like what we'd have at PG.

    C: Jokic, Valanciunas, Poeltl, Noguiera, Plumlee, Hibbert. Jokic alone makes the Raptors better.... and we all know how JV plays when he's the 6th man. Poeltl would be no slouch as the third C either... the other big men meanwhile could go out there and help us hack the worst FT shooter on a bad team.

    Imagine the lineup combos here.... the possibilities on both ends, the offense & defense. We could trot out a Lowry-DeRozan-Chandler-Ibaka-Jokic starting 5 with just Murray-Barton-Miles-Millsap-Valanciunas off the bench and that alone would probably be good enough to stop most teams including the Cavs & possibly the Warriors. The Nuggets provide us with solid 3 point shooting, defense & a true two way SF along with tons of depth everywhere. People always think it's the starting 5 that helps a team win games..... meanwhile, it's been our bench that's helped the Raptors kick ass. The Nuggets have learned this & I have no doubt they'll be a playoff team barring any serious injuries this upcoming season.
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  12. #32
    Raptors Republic All-Star ebrian's Avatar
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    Quote golden wrote: View Post
    When a team can play 5-out, it negates the impact of a rim-protecting big man - we saw that with Rudy Gobert in the playoffs. So, basically you need Embiid to completely dominate his matchup with Draymond on both ends.... but you're at a disadvantage trading 2's for 3's on offense, even though Embiid CAN hit 3's - it's not his strength. So then it also comes down to Embiid's ability to guard Draymond on the perimeter, in which case you probably have better choices on defense.
    I view it the same way. Someone else brought up Shaq and Hakeem -- great, legendary players. But you still have the same disadvantage. They'd dominate the post, but that's about it. And it's not like as if no one ever scored in the paint while these guys were defending it. Some people have made some intriguing scenarios and I do like the direction Philly is heading but this Warriors team is too good at this point.
    your pal,
    ebrian

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