What star will be available this season?

[DanH]

Welcome to the club. lol

Some of us saw this coming a long time ago. Same experience. You're right though, people are slowly starting to recognize it and the mob has dwindled.

You can still love JV and realize that his style/fit can be better off the bench.

The Milwaukee series is the eye opener and will be the blueprint moving forward as the trend continues. When our backs were against the wall, JV was moved to the bench and we took that series handily. That was against Thon Maker.....


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I wouldn't mind JV playing off the bench at all if we had a better alternative. I want to use JV to soak up some starting minutes to shield Ibaka, Poeltl and BeBe from matchups they can't (or should't have to) handle every night. Others believe Ibaka would thrive as a full time C, or that Poeltl is ready to take on those minutes. I just don't believe those things.

Heck, JV as a scorer off the bench is a fantastic place to be as a team. We just need to have a better option as a starter - the difference of opinion here is not whether it would be great to have a better option at starting C than JV, but whether we do in fact have one, yet. I think Poeltl will get there in time, but isn't there yet. Next season perhaps, if all goes well. Come the playoffs it will all come down to matchups, and for that reason they should be running the large variety of lineups they have been to get a feel for what works and what doesn't (in fact, moreso, I would argue, in terms of variations that include much of the starting lineup).

[LJ2]

Lumbering isn't the main issue with JV... it's BBIQ. He's at least as quick and more athletic than Marc Gasol, but Gasol's IQ is off the charts and always has been. That said, even Gasol is starting to get exposed in some matchups.... granted he is older now and was a below average NBA athlete even in his prime.

I'm not going to argue which of the issues JV faces are the biggest ones....though I do tend to think his lack of elite athleticism is big. For example M. Gasol has off the charts BBIQ as you say, but who fits in today's NBA better, he or Embid, Towns or any of the new generation freak athlete bigs? Don't get me wrong, IQ is huge as well.

[Shaolin Fantastic]

Poeltl and Siakam are both better options to start. Preferably the latter.

[Shaolin Fantastic]

And yet Noel, a quick C, couldn't get a decent offer in RFA this summer.

And the entire point of my comment was in regards to Poeltl's trade value. In a league that is going away from centres, to some degree, you won't be able to flip a young promising C for a young promising wing.

Strawman. He was an RFA, teams don't bother making "decent" offers because they'll get matched. You have to overpay to steal an RFA and no one wanted to do that. He ended up not getting a deal at all b/c he turned down Dallas' initial offer seeking even more money. They had no incentive to pay him once nobody had any cap space

[DanH]

Strawman. He was an RFA, teams don't bother making "decent" offers because they'll get matched. You have to overpay to steal an RFA and no one wanted to do that. He ended up not getting a deal at all b/c he turned down Dallas' initial offer seeking even more money. They had no incentive to pay him once nobody had any cap space

Ah, so you predict he will get ~20M this summer then?

It's just one example. No non-star bigs got really well paid this summer.

[JamesNaismith]

Lumbering isn't the main issue with JV... it's BBIQ. He's at least as quick and more athletic than Marc Gasol, but Gasol's IQ is off the charts and always has been. That said, even Gasol is starting to get exposed in some matchups.... granted he is older now and was a below average NBA athlete even in his prime.

That's a lie.

While he definitely isn't super athletic and yes a lot of it is due to his extremely high bball IQ....he was in fact quicker and more athletic.

JV damn near trips over his feet the times he tries to recover or will stay under the pick because he knows he can't. Gasol had no such issue because he was more nimble and quick in addition to being a much smarter defender, he even runs out and contests shot because he knows he can recover. JV's feet would be sinking in concrete if he tried to run out and contest then recover.

You'll actually see him defend PGs from the perimeter all the way to the basket (ie/ Tony Parker who at the time of the vid 6 years ago was still one of the quickest in the league). You also see Gasol is more nimble in his offensive repotoire with his ability to do step backs and various other footwork and more athletic with his rim runs or self initiated drives to the basket. The whole reason he's starting to get beat as you say is because he is aging/slowing down.

[golden]

That's a lie.

While he definitely isn't super athletic and yes a lot of it is due to his extremely high bball IQ....he was in fact quicker and more athletic.

JV damn near trips over his feet the times he tries to recover or will stay under the pick because he knows he can't. Gasol had no such issue because he was more nimble and quick in addition to being a much smarter defender, he even runs out and contests shot because he knows he can recover. JV's feet would be sinking in concrete if he tried to run out and contest then recover.

You'll actually see him defend PGs from the perimeter all the way to the basket (ie/ Tony Parker who at the time of the vid 6 years ago was still one of the quickest in the league). You also see Gasol is more nimble in his offensive repotoire with his ability to do step backs and various other footwork and more athletic with his rim runs or self initiated drives to the basket. The whole reason he's starting to get beat as you say is because he is aging/slowing down.

lol. I knew the "experts" on this board with try to dispute Gasol's physical tools. Anybody who thinks Marc Gasol has above average athleticism, by NBA standards, is just trying to start an argument. Finding a few highlights clips of any particular player doesn't change the body of work. I mean, how many Marc Gasol alley-oop highlights do you remember, even in compared to a sloth like JV. This is a guy that's 7-1. I'd guess there might be more alley-oop videos where Marc Gasol is the one throwing the pass. lol.

http://www.draftexpress.com/profile/Marc-Gasol-155/

It’s still not 100% clear that he’s athletic enough to play substantial minutes in today’s NBA, especially early on, but to land a player this big with this kind of skill level and basketball IQ is an absolute coup.

"How much will Gasol’s lack of athleticism get exposed in the NBA? I guess that’s the question every single decision maker will be asking himself when it comes to evaluating the big Spanish center. With much more individual oriented defenses, it’s a very legit concern. In the ACB League, he relies on his excellent positioning to emerge as a very solid defensive presence. It’s not going to be the same in the NBA."

His average production can be attributed to his lack of explosiveness and strength, as well as his physical conditioning. He has struggled against much more physical and athletic NBA post players, and because he's sometimes lazy in getting to the weakside block on shot opportunities, his defensive rebounding numbers are a little lower than the Grizzlies had hoped.

.....he doesn't make a great impact on the defensive end. His limited mobility gets exploited in pick-and-roll situations that the opponents throw at him; he's not a great intimidator, he allows smaller opponents to shoot over him; and given his superb size, he's not the best rebounder around.

https://www.cbssports.com/nba/news/w...n-trade-talks/

Gasol is 32, and a slide in his production can be expected over the next four years, despite his game not being built on athleticism as much as other bigs.

[KeonClark]

Gasol is crafty, with very nimble footwork. JV is behind him in that but showing improvement. But Gasol is certainly not athletic like explosive. He is compared to joe couch Potato obviously, but certainly not for the nba

[slaw]

Gasol is crafty, with very nimble footwork. JV is behind him in that but showing improvement. But Gasol is certainly not athletic like explosive. He is compared to joe couch Potato obviously, but certainly not for the nba

I would suggest one of the differences between Gasol and JV is that Gasol compensates for his limitations better than JV does. Or, closer to home, watch Poeltl. I doubt that in one-off tests like running, jumping, etc. he would do much better than JV but he is quicker on the court because he has very good awareness that allows him to cheat and react faster than JV. JV is often caught out of position not because he's slow but because he makes the wrong read.

[golden]

I would suggest one of the differences between Gasol and JV is that Gasol compensates for his limitations better than JV does. Or, closer to home, watch Poeltl. I doubt that in one-off tests like running, jumping, etc. he would do much better than JV but he is quicker on the court because he has very good awareness that allows him to cheat and react faster than JV. JV is often caught out of position not because he's slow but because he makes the wrong read.

Agreed. What you're saying and this nice summary article below, is the generally accepted view of why Marc Gasol is so successful vs. JV. I wasn't lying, lol....

Marc Gasol: The “Slow-Fast” Wonder
https://hoopshabit.com/2015/03/05/ma...w-fast-wonder/

Gasol’s big man counterpart of the Houston Rockets, Dwight Howard, is another player who confides in his supreme physical ability; he struggles in every facet of the game that requires skill and basketball intelligence — while excelling in the areas that call for power, agility, and leaping ability.

Instead, Marc isn’t considered a star for serving as a heedless behemoth on the court. His intuition allows him to display excellent aid in regard to the needs of his teammates as he applies his brute force thoughtfully. Scarce are the big men who come into the league with Gasol’s acumen and passing dexterity.

Doc Rivers provided his insight into Gasol’s game before the Clippers took on the Grizzlies last week.

“He’s slow-fast. He looks like molasses when he moves, but he’s always smarter than the guy guarding him. … He has all the old-man moves.”

It isn’t too difficult to decipher why Gasol is the former Defensive Player of the Year when considering his size, strength, instinct, and skill.

“Watch the Grizzlies on defense, and you’ll see Gasol barking out instructions, pointing, pushing teammates into their proper spaces,” said Bleacher Reports’s Howard Beck.

Though he lacks the physical ability of Dwight Howard and Russell Westbrook, Gasol uses his high basketball IQ and skill set to provide the perfect combination of brute force and ingenuity to his team. The ground-bound big man is primed to propel the Grizzlies to lofty heights.

[KeonClark]

I would suggest one of the differences between Gasol and JV is that Gasol compensates for his limitations better than JV does. Or, closer to home, watch Poeltl. I doubt that in one-off tests like running, jumping, etc. he would do much better than JV but he is quicker on the court because he has very good awareness that allows him to cheat and react faster than JV. JV is often caught out of position not because he's slow but because he makes the wrong read.

Glad you brought up Poeltl because I've been meaning to make this point. Iirc his parents were both Olympic volleyball players and he himself played high level volleyball. It's not mentioned much, but it's quite clearly hugely beneficial to his basketball game. His best attributes are tracking the ball, tipping it, offensive rebounds, and footwork; all things they volleyball stars would be great at

[Shaolin Fantastic]

It's like Tim Duncan. That dude could barely move near the end of his career, but he was still a monster defensively because he was always in the right positions ahead of time.

JV's problem is he doesn't have anything. He doesn't have the athleticism, he doesn't have the defensive IQ and his effort level on defense isn't that great either (it's not terrible, but it's not good enough to make up for how bad his athleticism and IQ are).

[golden]

It's like Tim Duncan. That dude could barely move near the end of his career, but he was still a monster defensively because he was always in the right positions ahead of time.

JV's problem is he doesn't have anything. He doesn't: (1) have the athleticism, (2) he doesn't have the defensive IQ and (3) his effort level on defense isn't that great either (it's not terrible, but it's not good enough to make up for how bad his athleticism and IQ are).

3 strikes.....

[Shaolin Fantastic]

tbh the effort thing doesn't even matter that much without the athleticism and/or IQ. It helps you keep your coach happy I guess. Look at Calderon, tried his ass off, always in a stance but was trash on defense lol

[S.R.]

JV was a critical piece of the Raptors most successful playoff run to date, and he looked very good during that run against two more contemporary, mobile C's in Turner and Whiteside. He's really lost against the Cavs, though. But there's a bit of exaggeration here re: his "slow footedness," defence, and overall usefulness in the current NBA. There are quite a few starting 7 footers in the NBA that JV is still, by far, the best Raptor to match up against.