The real problem is not that BeBe/Fred are not good, it's that they are off their rookie deals this summer and will be free agents (both RFA, but still).
Yeah, I know. That's why I favoured Fred be in the trade than Wright. I don't think Clips want to pay DJ either though.
The real problem is not that BeBe/Fred are not good, it's that they are off their rookie deals this summer and will be free agents (both RFA, but still).
If he's not involved in a trade, do you think bebe signs a deal here or somewhere else?
9 time first team all-RR, First Ballot Hall of Forum
If he's not involved in a trade, do you think bebe signs a deal here or somewhere else?
With the Raptors' tax situation next summer, I wouldn't be entirely shocked if they didn't extend a QO, letting him go to UFA. But if they get rid of JV, I'd expect they try to hold onto him.
One potential JV trade partner for the Raps could be the Sac Kings. They are 2nd last in ORTG and need scoring. SAC has lot of centers (Cauley-Stein, Koufos, Papagiannis + Giles....), but none of them would be considered scoring centers. They also would be looking to get younger and rebuild around Fox, Hield and Cauley-Stein. Something like this works.....
To Kings: JV + M. Miller
To Raps: Garrett Temple + Kosta Koufos
For the Kings: they get a solid backup scoring C in JV and unload a couple of veterans while getting younger. Miller is filler.
For the Raps: Temple is a solid perimeter defender (guards 1/2/3) and has developed into a very good 3-pt shooter (.405), who will get a ton of wide open looks in the Raps offense. Koufos is another good defender as a backup C and a decent rim protector.
Seems like a good trade for both teams and salaries work perfectly with or without Miller. Given that it's the Kings dealing, I could easily envision Masai scamming an unprotected 1st rounder out of the deal.
One potential JV trade partner for the Raps could be the Sac Kings. They are 2nd last in ORTG and need scoring. SAC has lot of centers (Cauley-Stein, Koufos, Papagiannis + Giles....), but none of them would be considered scoring centers. They also would be looking to get younger and rebuild around Fox, Hield and Cauley-Stein. Something like this works.....
To Kings: JV + M. Miller
To Raps: Garrett Temple + Kosta Koufos
For the Kings: they get a solid backup scoring C in JV and unload a couple of veterans while getting younger. Miller is filler.
For the Raps: Temple is a solid perimeter defender (guards 1/2/3) and has developed into a very good 3-pt shooter (.405), who will get a ton of wide open looks in the Raps offense. Koufos is another good defender as a backup C and a decent rim protector.
Seems like a good trade for both teams and salaries work perfectly with or without Miller. Given that it's the Kings dealing, I could easily envision Masai scamming an unprotected 1st rounder out of the deal.
One potential JV trade partner for the Raps could be the Sac Kings. They are 2nd last in ORTG and need scoring. SAC has lot of centers (Cauley-Stein, Koufos, Papagiannis + Giles....), but none of them would be considered scoring centers. They also would be looking to get younger and rebuild around Fox, Hield and Cauley-Stein. Something like this works.....
To Kings: JV + M. Miller
To Raps: Garrett Temple + Kosta Koufos
For the Kings: they get a solid backup scoring C in JV and unload a couple of veterans while getting younger. Miller is filler.
For the Raps: Temple is a solid perimeter defender (guards 1/2/3) and has developed into a very good 3-pt shooter (.405), who will get a ton of wide open looks in the Raps offense. Koufos is another good defender as a backup C and a decent rim protector.
Seems like a good trade for both teams and salaries work perfectly with or without Miller. Given that it's the Kings dealing, I could easily envision Masai scamming an unprotected 1st rounder out of the deal.
Can't see them giving us a pick to swap centers when they have so many to groom.
I just took a quick and dirty look at the depth charts at C from ESPN, and made a few adjustments. I'm not 100% sure about every team but these are my best guesses:
Atlanta - Dedmon/Plumlee - no need, no fit w/play style
Boston - Horford/Baynes - has need, but poor salary matches
Brooklyn - Zeller/Mozgov - no need, no fit
Charlotte - Howard/Zeller - no need, possible fit
Chicago - Lopez/Felicio - has need, possible fit. They were reportedly looking at Okafor.
Cleveland - Love/Thompson - has need, possible fit, but conference rival
Dallas - Dirk/Mejri/Powell - has need, possible fit (Noel is persona non grata)
Denver - Jokic/Plumlee - no need, no fit
Detroit - Drummond/Boban - no need, possible fit
Golden State - lol
Houston - Capela/Nene - no need, no fit
Indiana - Turner/Jefferson - no need, possible fit
LA Clippers - Jordan/Reed - possible need if Jordan moves/ possible fit
LA Lakers - Lopez/Zubac - no need, not a great fit
Memphis - Gasol/Wright - possible need if Gasol moves / possible fit
Miami - Whiteside/Bam - no need / possible fit
Milwaukee - Henson/Maker - has need / unlikely fit
Minnesota - Towns/Dieng - no need / possible fit
New Orleans - Cousins/Ajinca - no need / not a great fit
New York - Kanter / Hernangomez / OQuinn / Noah - no need / possible fit
OKC - Adams / Johnson - possible need (Kanter role)/ possible fit
Orlando - Vucevic/Biz - no need / possible fit
Philly - Embiid/Holmes - no need or fit
Phoenix - Chandler/Len/Monroe - no need / possible fit
Portland - Nurkic / Collins - no need /possible fit
Sacramento - Koufos / WCS/ Giles - no need /possible fit
San Antonio - Gasol / Lauvergne - possible need and fit
Utah - Gobert/ Favors - no need / possible fit
Washington - Gortat /Mahinmi - no need / possible fit
The best partners in terms of need and fit, I think, would be Chicago and Dallas. They have the two lowest payrolls in the league, neither has a good centre prospect, and neither team has a pace-and-space identity. We know San Antonio liked JV once upon a time, but you're probably looking at taking back Pau and maybe a very late first.
Cleveland, LA Clippers, and Memphis are other possibilities but I don't think we have the pieces to be a good match for any of them. I doubt the Bucks want to add Jonas after ditching Monroe; they're more likely to want Bebe.
Nikola Mirotic and Wes Matthews would be the most likely Chicago/Dallas candidates, I think. *Edit: I considered Nerlens Noel, but apparently we wouldn't get his Bird rights, so that's a no-go.
Unfortunately this Jahlil Okafor situation might be gumming up the works a bit. I think teams like Chicago might want to wait to see if he gets bought out before doing anything.
Last edited by Scraptor; Thu Nov 30, 2017, 08:39 PM.
Some of you guys don't really get it and are massively overrating the trade value of some of the guys on our roster.
The only guys with good trade value right now are DeRozan, Anunoby, Siakam and Poeltl. (Powell can't be traded until the offseason).
Lowry and Ibaka are paid too much to really have much value at all in a deal. CJ has about the same as them because he's on a pretty ok deal, but he's not 3+D just 3 so that hurts him.
Valanciunas has some value but not a lot because of the lack of a need for what he does in the league right now. Really only has value if the other team wants that kind of center which is going to be very rare.
Wright has a little but the PG position is so saturated that it's not great, plus he's 25 years old already.
Bruno, Bebe and FVV have little to no trade value. Bebe because he's expiring, Bruno because he sucks and FVV because he's a 3rd string PG, short and not athletic.
Some of you guys don't really get it and are massively overrating the trade value of some of the guys on our roster.
The only guys with good trade value right now are DeRozan, Anunoby, Siakam and Poeltl. (Powell can't be traded until the offseason).
Lowry and Ibaka are paid too much to really have much value at all in a deal. CJ has about the same as them because he's on a pretty ok deal, but he's not 3+D just 3 so that hurts him.
Valanciunas has some value but not a lot because of the lack of a need for what he does in the league right now. Really only has value if the other team wants that kind of center which is going to be very rare.
Wright has a little but the PG position is so saturated that it's not great, plus he's 25 years old already.
Bruno, Bebe and FVV have little to no trade value. Bebe because he's expiring, Bruno because he sucks and FVV because he's a 3rd string PG, short and not athletic.
SAC fits that profile. I mean, JV for Temple+Koufos isn't exactly a blockbuster. It fills some very minor needs and matches roster age profiles on both sides. Kings need efficient scoring, and JV can provide that with great rebounding as a bonus and defending post-up bigs, similar to the Knicks getting Kanter. JV would also be a good fit defensively with mobile bigs like Skal and Cauley-Stein.
Bulls and Mavs have been discussed alot, but I thought this was a new angle that could potentially work.
lol. Great minds think alike, or fools seldom differ. Last year on trade deadline day I predicted the Mavs would trade: Bogut + Justin Anderson + 1st for a center. Nailing that exact trade package was pretty random.... and hilarious. I thought that center would be JV, but it ended up being Noel. If the Mavs could do it again, I'm pretty sure they'd take JV in a heartbeat over Noel.
Valanciunas has some value but not a lot because of the lack of a need for what he does in the league right now. Really only has value if the other team wants that kind of center which is going to be very rare.
Temple + Koufos for JV is overrating him? Christ. I'd love to hear what you think his fair value. Jameer Nelson maybe?
Some of you guys don't really get it and are massively overrating the trade value of some of the guys on our roster.
The only guys with good trade value right now are DeRozan, Anunoby, Siakam and Poeltl. (Powell can't be traded until the offseason).
Lowry and Ibaka are paid too much to really have much value at all in a deal. CJ has about the same as them because he's on a pretty ok deal, but he's not 3+D just 3 so that hurts him.
Valanciunas has some value but not a lot because of the lack of a need for what he does in the league right now. Really only has value if the other team wants that kind of center which is going to be very rare.
Wright has a little but the PG position is so saturated that it's not great, plus he's 25 years old already.
Bruno, Bebe and FVV have little to no trade value. Bebe because he's expiring, Bruno because he sucks and FVV because he's a 3rd string PG, short and not athletic.
I dunno. The trade idea was JV for two middling NBA journeymen back ups... not exactly the far-fetched JV + Bebe + Bruno for Marc Gasol proposal that we've seen posted on here. There's a really small chance that any of our half baked trade ideas ever come to fruition, but I don't think that particular trade is 'massively overrating' JV.
Temple + Koufos for JV is overrating him? Christ. I'd love to hear what you think his fair value. Jameer Nelson maybe?
I wasn't talking about Temple + Koufos in that post, that's not overrating JV.
I was talking about how asinine it is to think that JV+Bebe+FVV can get us DeAndre Jordan. Like can we stop being drunk please with trade offers like that?
I don't like the Temple + Koufos deal. The Kings would definitely do that but it doesn't help us much. Temple is another shooting guard. He's a good shooter (but not at high volume) but he can't guard bigger 3s or 4s.
I don't like the Temple + Koufos deal. The Kings would definitely do that but it doesn't help us much. Temple is another shooting guard. He's a good shooter (but not at high volume) but he can't guard bigger 3s or 4s.
Temple is shooting 3's at a rate of 7.4 per 100 possessions. That's a very good volume and comparable to established 3 & D guys like Trevor Ariza (7.5) and better than Otto Porter (6.0). It's more than enough to be a floor spacer. And Temple's 3P attempts would probably increase further since we have a lot of non or inconsistent 3P shooters in the rotation. And what's wrong with getting another good 3-pt shooter who is also a decent perimeter defender, who can guard multiple positions? It gives us more lineup flexibility & switchability for new NBA.
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