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Thread: ESPN panel on the Raptors

  1. #41
    Raptors Republic Superstar SkywalkerAC's Avatar
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    This is such a great team to watch now too. I know I'm biased but I do have access to every NBA matchup - most of the time the other matchups don't come close to what we're experiencing with these Raps.

    But Leo is right - be like the Spurs - nothing wrong with flying under the radar.

  2. #42
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    I've noticed that when coaches are talking (ex or current) they seem to give the Raptors more respect. Kevin McHale for example has been very accurate in saying that Casey has always been a fine defensive coach but lacked imagination with offence....until now. It's probably Nick Nurse who should get a lot of credit but Casey has the final say. A couple of years ago there was a clip on Youtube where Popovich came over to Casey after a mid season game and told him "you guys are going to the finals....I mean it, no bullshit". You can also tell that teams get up to play the Raptors....so I think the players and coaches know they are good. But the Celtics and Lakers have so much history they will always be media darlings, New York is the Mecca and until LeBron retires his every move will be adored. This sounds crazy but I don't think Golden State; quite possibly the best NBA team of all time gets as much credit or attention as they could. Tonight Kenny "the Jet" said he thinks Cleveland has a reasonable chance of beating them in the finals. Last nights pounding at the hands of Boston was because they were on a back to back and......."weren't into it!".

    I'm really enjoying watching this Raptor team develop. I love the fact that Kyle is just so obviously happy for Demar with his recent burst into stardom. What other team has a bromance like that? And we have two with Pascal and Jakob....and I really hope they both get to stay around for years because they have passion. What can you say about Delon Wright? Incredibly fun to watch. Is this team ever going to win a championship? Likely not. We aren't likely to land a "superstar", the refs always screw us in the playoffs (the umpires do it to the Blue Jays too in playoffs....I'm convinced) and Boston with all of their f'ing draft picks seem ready to build a dynasty. But I think the Raptors are doing things the right way and we can be proud of the franchise.

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  4. #43
    Raptors Republic Hall of Famer Nilanka's Avatar
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    Quote KeonClark wrote: View Post
    I'll wrap it up like this: it's really one of 2 things

    A) the league manipulates SOME outcomes to create bigger stars, teams, stories, and untold millions for its wealthy old white billionaires that run it

    Or

    B) the league is so interested in fair competitive contests, integrity, plus the fan and the athlete that they would never dream of interfering, even if the result costs their old rich white billionaires untold millions

    Huh. Everyone calls the conspiracy guy crazy. I think it's even crazier to bury your head in the sand and be unwilling to consider it.
    I'm open to any suggestion, but I would need hard evidence to be convinced of a league-wide conspiracy. Until then, I'll stick with the simpler, more likely explanation....that refs aren't that good and sometimes make bad/dumb calls.

    Billionaire owners will still be billionaire owners, regardless of whether Jordan wins one less ring

  5. #44
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    Quote Mitch P wrote: View Post
    Is this team ever going to win a championship? Likely not. We aren't likely to land a "superstar", the refs always screw us in the playoffs (the umpires do it to the Blue Jays too in playoffs....I'm convinced) and Boston with all of their f'ing draft picks seem ready to build a dynasty. But I think the Raptors are doing things the right way and we can be proud of the franchise.
    100% agree

  6. #45
    Raptors Republic Superstar Puffer's Avatar
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    Quote KeonClark wrote: View Post
    I'll wrap it up like this: it's really one of 2 things

    A) the league manipulates SOME outcomes to create bigger stars, teams, stories, and untold millions for its wealthy old white billionaires that run it

    Or

    B) the league is so interested in fair competitive contests, integrity, plus the fan and the athlete that they would never dream of interfering, even if the result costs their old rich white billionaires untold millions

    Huh. Everyone calls the conspiracy guy crazy. I think it's even crazier to bury your head in the sand and be unwilling to consider it.
    "Personal Foul" by Tim Donaghy.

    https://www.amazon.ca/Personal-Foul-.../dp/061536263X

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  8. #46
    Raptors Republic Hall of Famer KeonClark's Avatar
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    Quote Puffer wrote: View Post
    I guess we need to take his assertions with a grain of salt (and the nba certainly made sure his credibility was nil)...but tim states matter of factly that they were ordered to make sure the new brooklyn Franchise with kg and pierce went on to face old foe lebron, and not the upstart and unknown group of feisty raptors in 2014
    11/20/16 Lest we forget - The Sacramento Screw Job.
    We will not go quietly in the night. We will rage against the dying light. We will study every buzzer beater with intensified might, because somethin with the NBA doesn't smell right.

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  10. #47
    Raptors Republic Hall of Famer Nilanka's Avatar
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    Quote Puffer wrote: View Post
    Quote KeonClark wrote: View Post
    I guess we need to take his assertions with a grain of salt (and the nba certainly made sure his credibility was nil)...but tim states matter of factly that they were ordered to make sure the new brooklyn Franchise with kg and pierce went on to face old foe lebron, and not the upstart and unknown group of feisty raptors in 2014
    Anyone read this? I'll put it on my reading list.

  11. #48
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    Quote KeonClark wrote: View Post
    I guess we need to take his assertions with a grain of salt (and the nba certainly made sure his credibility was nil)...but tim states matter of factly that they were ordered to make sure the new brooklyn Franchise with kg and pierce went on to face old foe lebron, and not the upstart and unknown group of feisty raptors in 2014
    Well they fucked up pretty badly then. If Casey hadn't drawn up that final play on the wrong side of the court, we probably win the series.
    If we knew half as much about coaching an NBA team as we think, we"d know twice as much as we do.

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  13. #49
    Raptors Republic Veteran planetmars's Avatar
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    The "star call" is enough to insinuate that the NBA wants to rig games or situations. A foul has a pretty big impact to the team committing it. They get to the bonus quicker. One of their guys will play less as they could be in foul trouble, etc.

    I thought it would slowly go away with Stern leaving but it's still in the league.

  14. #50
    Raptors Republic Hall of Famer KeonClark's Avatar
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    Quote 3inthekeon wrote: View Post
    Well they fucked up pretty badly then. If Casey hadn't drawn up that final play on the wrong side of the court, we probably win the series.
    Haha very true. I didn't like how quickly they fouled amir out of the game when he was rolling. But you're correct on that. Here's the exact quote anyway

    According to Donaghy, Toronto is “not only going against the Brooklyn Nets but going against the league office.”

    “They have a very talented team and have to be that much better than the Brooklyn Nets,” Donaghy said. “I have picked Brooklyn to win the series with (Paul) Pierce, (Kevin) Garnett, Joe Johnson and even Jason Kidd. When you look at the coaches – the referees are going to be more active to talk and respond to (Kidd) over (Raptors coach) Dwane Casey.” *

    “What they do is they actually send in a representative from the league office to sit down with the referees at an 11 o’clock meeting in the morning where they go over game film,” Donaghy continued. “They will show the referees what they want called, what they want them to concentrate on, what they feel needs to be called or let go in a series to avoid any problems.”

    Donaghy claims that the NBA rigged the manner in which the Nets-Raptors games are officiated in order to secure a matchup in the next round that would generate better television ratings. “In this situation, Brooklyn would be put at an advantage,” he said. “A Brooklyn-Miami matchup would bring great ratings and that’s what this is all about for the NBA and the league offices—bringing in as many dollars as they can.”

    “As a referee, you get paid an enormous amount of money as (you) advance in rounds,” he added. “You’re being graded in every way you’re officiated. And you’re going to be graded on what they want you to call. So if they say ‘Kyle Lowry is hand-checking Deron Williams and we need that called’, you’re certainly going to call it. If you let something go, you’re going to be dinged with a missed call.”
    11/20/16 Lest we forget - The Sacramento Screw Job.
    We will not go quietly in the night. We will rage against the dying light. We will study every buzzer beater with intensified might, because somethin with the NBA doesn't smell right.

  15. #51
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    If you watch a lot of games, you see games being called differently. You see the same fouls either being called or being ignored depending on who is fouling who. There should be no such thing as "star calls" or "rookie calls." The league doesn't want the "stars" to be forced to the bench and they don't want small market (or non-US) teams to make it too far in the playoffs because people don't pay to watch role players win. If it's a small market team with a generational talent that everyone wants to watch, okay. It's a business. Not as bad as wrestling, but it's the entertainment business. It would be even worse if there wasn't so much money being placed as bets. As it is, bookies probably know how much to discount the Raptors chances based on league wishes for particular outcomes.

  16. #52
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    What a depressing conversation. But very, very credible I think. Basketball is certainly a sport where officiating has a huge impact. The basic concept where body contact is theoretically illegal...but occurs on almost every play makes "judgement" calls constant. There have been a number of series over the years where I was convinced that the officiating determined the outcome. One of the most blatant was when Miami beat Dallas the first time the Mavs were there. Dirk should have two championships. This was the origin of Mark Cuban's sometimes over the top ref baiting. Dwayne Wade was at the line constantly on marginal calls and it was nowhere close to being called the same way at the other end. A couple of the Suns series in Nash's prime featured him being beaten to a pulp with very few calls.

    I'm already half dreading the Raptors opening series this spring and what it will bring. Demar and the rest need to go in with the mindset that NOTHING will be called and they need to power through, finish and not sulk if calls aren't happening. Hopefully superior talent and effort will overcome that 10 points the league will seed Boston, Cleveland or even I fear Washington (the Wall/Beal combo gets a lot of attention) or the Bucks ( the Freak is being groomed to replace Lebron).
    Last edited by Mitch P; Fri Jan 5th, 2018 at 06:31 PM.

  17. #53
    Raptors Republic Hall of Famer KeonClark's Avatar
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    Quote Mitch P wrote: View Post
    What a depressing conversation. But very, very credible I think. Basketball is certainly a sport where officiating has a huge impact. The basic concept where body contact is theoretically illegal...but occurs on almost every play makes "judgement" calls constant. There have been a number of series over the years where I was convinced that the officiating determined the outcome. One of the most blatant was when Miami beat Dallas the first time the Mavs were there. Dwayne Wade was at the line constantly on marginal calls and it was nowhere close to being called the same way at the other end. A couple of the Suns series in Nash's prime featured him being beaten to a pulp with very few calls.

    I'm already half dreading the Raptors opening series this spring and what it will bring. Demar and the rest need to go in with the mindset that NOTHING will be called and they need to power through, finish and not sulk if calls aren't happening. Hopefully superior talent and effort will overcome that 10 points the league will seed Boston, Cleveland or even I fear Washington (the Wall/Beal combo gets a lot of attention) or the Bucks ( the Freak is being groomed to replace Lebron).
    Depressing and credible indeed. You can't get too far down the rabbit hole or it all becomes too nihilistic.

    Crack a beer, boo the bad guys, cheer the good guys, and hope for nice ball movement

    11/20/16 Lest we forget - The Sacramento Screw Job.
    We will not go quietly in the night. We will rage against the dying light. We will study every buzzer beater with intensified might, because somethin with the NBA doesn't smell right.

  18. #54
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    Time for canada to join the US -- Toronto would instantly get a Christmas Game and prime time spots in playoffs..

  19. #55
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    Demar has been on a role lately -- seeing a tiny bit more ISO play starting again with Lowry and Demar, but since Demar has been so hot lately it hasn't really shown...

  20. #56
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    That NBA tv commentary by Grant Hill that TRex posted is pretty outstanding. Well......I've heard from an insider that Grant Hill is one of the finest people in all of the NBA. Now I like him even more. He has Demar in the top 5 MVP candidates! Well all righty then! Why not? Who's playing better right now? That's right......nobody.

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  22. #57
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    Quote Mitch P wrote: View Post
    That NBA tv commentary by Grant Hill that TRex posted is pretty outstanding. Well......I've heard from an insider that Grant Hill is one of the finest people in all of the NBA. Now I like him even more. He has Demar in the top 5 MVP candidates! Well all righty then! Why not? Who's playing better right now? That's right......nobody.
    The way the team and Derozan is playing, he should be a top 5 MVP candidate.

  23. #58
    Raptors Republic Hall of Famer TRex's Avatar
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    A non-story like LiAngelo and LaMelo Ball's trip to Lithuania is getting more coverage on ESPN right now than the Raptors. Smh.

    I don't really understand why those 2 are getting so much coverage. They're not NBA prospects. They're not good enough to play in this league. They're not as good as their brother Lonzo. Why the hype?

  24. #59
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    Quote Mitch P wrote: View Post
    That NBA tv commentary by Grant Hill that TRex posted is pretty outstanding. Well......I've heard from an insider that Grant Hill is one of the finest people in all of the NBA. Now I like him even more. He has Demar in the top 5 MVP candidates! Well all righty then! Why not? Who's playing better right now? That's right......nobody.
    Grant Hill is awesome. Was a huge Duke fan because of him (not so much of a fan of the NCAA anymore though). Always a class act. Such a big difference in his broadcasting skills from someone like Pierce (who's terrible). He's smart, well versed, and does his homework. If he ever wanted to get into coaching I think he would excel there too.

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  26. #60
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    Quote planetmars wrote: View Post
    Grant Hill is awesome...If he ever wanted to get into coaching I think he would excel there too.
    Wonder why we haven't heard more of this. Maybe he is smart enough to realize that the life of a broadcaster is way easier and more fun?

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