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Arse Says Offer Johnson No More Than $3.5 Million

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  • #16
    Ripp wrote: View Post
    PnR and finishing at the hoop. The comparison is not perfect, but it is a lot better than the Reggie Evans comp.
    The Reggie Evans comparison is a left over from last October

    Some folks are slow to change their opinions, which can be a healthy psychological trait, without seeing ample proof over time that something else is the reality.
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    Memories some so sweet, indeed

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    “As a captain, I played furiously. I drew a lot of fouls, but I brought everything I had to every practice and to every game. I left everything on the court because I simply wanted the team to win”
    Quote from well known personality who led their high school team to a state championship.

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    • #17
      TM Williamson wrote: View Post
      One is a power forward whose role is rebounding, defense, and finishing around the rim. He brings energy off the bench, is limited offensively, and thrives on hustle plays.

      One is a power forward who is one of the premier offensive players in the NBA, is the primary scoring option on one of the league's best teams, and averages over 20 ppg for his career.

      You really think the second description is more appropriate for Amir? I get where you're coming from, and I agree his overall game is well ahead of Reggie Evans, but his role and playing style are similar. Amare averaged 20 a game even before Nash came to Phoenix, and that was also before he even really developed a face up game. I love Amir, but a Stoudemire comparison is giving him WAY too much credit offensively.
      Watch the game tonight and you will see that except for the post up jump shot they score in the same fashion. In fact Johnson is way superior at finishing than Amare.

      For example last season dunks Amare 90% and close 56%
      Johnson dunks 96% and close 69%

      Johnson also has better hands than Amare.

      http://www.82games.com/0910/09TOR9.HTM

      The difference other than the face-up game is that Johnson's minutes and opportunities on offense had been limited before last season due to his foul problem.

      Triano finally gave him a chance last year and that along with the coaching of Alex English allowed Johnson to earn more opportunities on offense. He averaged 18 ppg as a starter last season, second best as a starter among all Raptors players. That is without having a strong face up jump shot like Amare does.
      Avatar: Riverboat Coffee House 134 Yorkville Ave. billboard of upcoming entertainers - Circa 1960s

      Memories some so sweet, indeed

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      “As a captain, I played furiously. I drew a lot of fouls, but I brought everything I had to every practice and to every game. I left everything on the court because I simply wanted the team to win”
      Quote from well known personality who led their high school team to a state championship.

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      • #18
        Buddahfan wrote: View Post
        Watch the game tonight and you will see that except for the post up jump shot they score in the same fashion.
        Ok...and how exactly does Reggie Evans score? Outside jumpers? Dribble drives? Or would it be, you know, exactly the same?

        Every big man in the league that doesn't shoot outside jumpers scores on dunks and in close shots. That's the nature of the position. It doesn't mean every non-jump shooting big man is comparable to Amare. Does this mean that Chris Andersen is comparable to Amare? How about Joel Anthony? These guys all score on dunks and in close shots too.

        The difference, of course, is that Amare is better at it. Amir is a role player, Amare is a stud offensive performer. Thus, Amir should be compared to other role players, not stud offensive performers.

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        • #19
          Big Dawg tweets good morning to all his fans in Toronto

          Good morning from the west coast, and good afternoon Toronto! I'm almost at 4000 followers! Tell a friend!

          http://twitter.com/IamAmirJohnson

          He does this pretty regularly if you follow his tweets. In fact he is the only Raptors player I know that consistently tweets good morning to his fans in Toronto.

          Lets here it for Big Dawg.
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          Memories some so sweet, indeed

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          “As a captain, I played furiously. I drew a lot of fouls, but I brought everything I had to every practice and to every game. I left everything on the court because I simply wanted the team to win”
          Quote from well known personality who led their high school team to a state championship.

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          • #20
            TM Williamson wrote: View Post
            Ok...and how exactly does Reggie Evans score? Outside jumpers? Dribble drives? Or would it be, you know, exactly the same?

            Every big man in the league that doesn't shoot outside jumpers scores on dunks and in close shots. That's the nature of the position. It doesn't mean every non-jump shooting big man is comparable to Amare. Does this mean that Chris Andersen is comparable to Amare? How about Joel Anthony? These guys all score on dunks and in close shots too.

            The difference, of course, is that Amare is better at it. Amir is a role player, Amare is a stud offensive performer. Thus, Amir should be compared to other role players, not stud offensive performers.
            Whatever.

            That is why I posted on earlier on this thread that I wasn't going to bring it up at this point because I knew that most people couldn't see it. Be that as it may Raptors fans negative opinions about his game won't stop his progress. Triano has let the old cat, in this case Big Dawg, out of the bag and the game is now afoot.

            Watch next season and have your eyes opened to the future.

            I am now done with this thread. Adios for this thread for me.
            Last edited by Buddahfan; Mon May 17, 2010, 12:55 PM.
            Avatar: Riverboat Coffee House 134 Yorkville Ave. billboard of upcoming entertainers - Circa 1960s

            Memories some so sweet, indeed

            Larger Photo of the avatar



            “As a captain, I played furiously. I drew a lot of fouls, but I brought everything I had to every practice and to every game. I left everything on the court because I simply wanted the team to win”
            Quote from well known personality who led their high school team to a state championship.

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            • #21
              I like Amir. He seems like a nice, genuine player. I just don't think the team should pay a premium for potential and manners. We'll see how much he really loves Toronto's fans when he has to pick between them and another team offering in around the same ball park. Talk is cheap.

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              • #22
                yertu damkule wrote: View Post
                i'm sorry, how are amir & amare similar again? besides, of course, their names?
                Actually, I think Amir is very similar to Chris Paul, minus the quickness, handles, shooting and passing ability. But Johnson has nearly a foot on Paul, so he could end up being better!
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                • #23
                  TM Williamson wrote: View Post
                  One is a power forward whose role is rebounding, defense, and finishing around the rim. He brings energy off the bench, is limited offensively, and thrives on hustle plays.

                  One is a power forward who is one of the premier offensive players in the NBA, is the primary scoring option on one of the league's best teams, and averages over 20 ppg for his career.

                  You really think the second description is more appropriate for Amir? I get where you're coming from, and I agree his overall game is well ahead of Reggie Evans, but his role and playing style are similar. Amare averaged 20 a game even before Nash came to Phoenix, and that was also before he even really developed a face up game. I love Amir, but a Stoudemire comparison is giving him WAY too much credit offensively.
                  Amir is more than just garbage, hustle points though. Obviously he is good at that, as is Reggie. But that is not the most intriguing part of Amir's game, to me.

                  The coolest part about his game is that he can run PnR to perfection. Reggie cannot do this, because he has stone hands and cannot finish at the rim.

                  If you focus only on the garbage points, then yes, Amir is Reggie. But if you look at how Triano used Amir to create for Bargnani while CB was out (in PnR situations, especially the Detroit game), it becomes clear that the Amare comp is not out of line. Remember, Amare's game is composed of jumpshooting, isos, and PnR play. His PnR play is his biggest strength, what makes him a big time player.

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                  • #24
                    Buddahfan wrote: View Post
                    Whatever.

                    That is why I posted on earlier on this thread that I wasn't going to bring it up at this point because I knew that most people couldn't see it. Be that as it may Raptors fans negative opinions about his game won't stop his progress. Triano has let the old cat, in this case Big Dawg, out of the bag and the game is now afoot.

                    Watch next season and have your eyes opened to the future.

                    I am now done with this thread. Adios for this thread for me.
                    Saying that a bench player is not comparable to one of the best players in the league is not a "negative opinion about his game." It's called being realistic. Perhaps you missed me saying "I love Amir"? Because I don't see how I could love Amir, yet have a "negative opinion about his game."

                    I will watch next season, and I will see a player that plays hard, rebounds well, and finishes around the rim when given the opportunity. I will not see a player who creates for himself, gets to the line regularly, and dominates games.

                    Again I will say, I love Amir. I would really like to see him back next year. But he is not, nor will he likely ever be, an Amare Stoudemire type player. Amir's game is based off of hustle, rebounding, and defense. Amare is an elite scorer. Beyond their body type and athletic ability, they simply are not the same player.

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                    • #25
                      Ripp wrote: View Post
                      Amir is more than just garbage, hustle points though. Obviously he is good at that, as is Reggie. But that is not the most intriguing part of Amir's game, to me.

                      The coolest part about his game is that he can run PnR to perfection. Reggie cannot do this, because he has stone hands and cannot finish at the rim.

                      If you focus only on the garbage points, then yes, Amir is Reggie. But if you look at how Triano used Amir to create for Bargnani while CB was out (in PnR situations, especially the Detroit game), it becomes clear that the Amare comp is not out of line. Remember, Amare's game is composed of jumpshooting, isos, and PnR play. His PnR play is his biggest strength, what makes him a big time player.
                      Fair enough, he did run the pick and roll with a lot of success. I get the comparison in that regard.

                      My point though is that Amir isn't a primary offensive threat, and likely will never be. Amir's court time is dependant on his rebounding and defense, not his scoring. So in that regard, I view him as more comparable to a Reggie Evans type of player (although I only used Reggie because he's also on the Raptors. There are certainly more apt comparisons across the league)

                      Basically, I'm just saying I don't see Amir ever becoming an offensive presence anywhere close to what Amare is. The isos are a major part of that, as Amare can create for himself, get to the line, and beat his man one on one, which we haven't really seen from Amir. I will concede though that his ability on the pick and roll makes him much more valuable offensively than Reggie Evans, and other players who rely strictly on the garbage points.

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                      • #26
                        ^-- Good response, and something I'll mostly agree with. I don't think Amir needs to become a high-usage offensive presence like Amare. The best part about Amare's game is the PnR play. That+rebounding+defense is more valuable to me than pure iso scoring (something that Amare truthfully is very overrated at.)

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                        • #27
                          lock him up, like we locked up jack, 5 mill. 3-5 years.

                          he's a good player so i don't care what you offer him. because he'll shopw it on the court i mean dude is a solid backup and maybe even half decent starter.

                          enough of this oh that's overpaying. no, the only over payment is hedo. he gets paid twice as much to fail at what jason kapono did.
                          Last edited by LBF; Mon May 17, 2010, 04:08 PM.
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                          • #28
                            LBF wrote: View Post
                            hedo. he gets paid twice as much to fail at what jason kapono did.
                            I think that's harsh. I would say the Hedo is equally overpaid as Kapono was because Hedo is twice the player that Kapono was/is... And in my opinion that's a conservative statement on my part.

                            I think the mentality shouldn't be let's overpay for player C because we overpaid for players A and B. That sort of sounds like how Thomas ruined the Knicks for a decade.

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                            • #29
                              LBF wrote: View Post
                              enough of this oh that's overpaying. no, the only over payment is hedo. he gets paid twice as much to fail at what jason kapono did.
                              The fact that we already have a massively overpaid player on our roster (more than one, actually) should make Colangelo more wary of overpaying again. Comparing prospective signings to Hedo's deal will be a quick way to get capped out with average players.

                              As they say, fool Colangelo once, shame on you. Fool Colangelo twice, shame on him. (Fool Colangelo repeatedly over the course of 5 years, and your name is Andrea Bargnani. But that's a totally different story.)

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                              • #30
                                With Wall almost definitely going to be drafted by the Wiz I decided to glance at their roster of returning players as of July 1st.

                                It turns out that they only have 2 bigs signed to contracts; i.e. Blatche and McGee.

                                In addition Saunders coached Johnson in Detroit.

                                It will be very interesting to see if the Wiz make him an offer and if they do what he decides to do.

                                Odds of him going there if offered a contract have probably just gone up a bit with Wall most likely be drafted by the Wiz, as well as his price?

                                We shall see
                                Avatar: Riverboat Coffee House 134 Yorkville Ave. billboard of upcoming entertainers - Circa 1960s

                                Memories some so sweet, indeed

                                Larger Photo of the avatar



                                “As a captain, I played furiously. I drew a lot of fouls, but I brought everything I had to every practice and to every game. I left everything on the court because I simply wanted the team to win”
                                Quote from well known personality who led their high school team to a state championship.

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