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Jose, Rubio And The Minnesota Timberwolves

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  • #16
    geebee wrote: View Post
    I don't understand you.
    Yesterday you championed JC/JJ as one of the best offensive PG tandems in the NBA, and today you want to give away one of our few bigs in order to push them down the PG depth chart?

    Who would you have starting at PF? Davis? Evans?
    The Raps may not be a playoff team next year, but it'd still be nice for fans if they had starters at all five positions.
    Tim said Jose and JJ ran one of the best offenses in the league, which is very true. He didn't mean they were offensive powerhouses on their own. They're good point guards.

    And if you read a few of his posts you'll quickly come to the conclusion that Tim wants his big men to rebound and play defense. Hence his desire to get rid of Bargs.
    Two beer away from being two beers away.

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    • #17
      Bouncepass wrote: View Post
      Actually, I meant that they might consider trading anyone EXCEPT Bargnani or DeRozan. I think it is too early to get a read on Davis, but he seems to be a complementary player more than a "go to" big. Still, I think an argument could be made for trading Bargnani for Rubio. It would be a fast, young team that would lose a LOT of games in the near future.
      I agree that Davis will probably never be anything more than a complimentary player, but because he can do the little things (and important things), he will be able to help any team.

      Bargnani will never be anything more than a complimentary player, as well, but one you have to surround with the right players to make up for his lack of defense and rebounding. Just because Bargnani has more offensive skill than Davis, doesn't make his ceiling an higher, nor make him anything more than a complimentary player.

      geebee wrote: View Post
      I don't understand you.
      Yesterday you championed JC/JJ as one of the best offensive PG tandems in the NBA, and today you want to give away one of our few bigs in order to push them down the PG depth chart?

      Who would you have starting at PF? Davis? Evans?
      The Raps may not be a playoff team next year, but it'd still be nice for fans if they had starters at all five positions.
      Well, first of all, I said that Jack and Calderon did just fine last year, and as proof, I pointed to the fact that they lead one of the best offenses in the league. That doesn't mean I wouldn't want to try and get a possible franchise PG in Rubio, if given a chance. I'd take Chris Paul over them, too, if they wuld be able to grab him. Besides, Rubio wouldn't be coming over for at least another year. I don't think the Raptors need a quick fix at PG unless the right deal comes along. However much I like Calderon, I was in favour of the Charlotte deal because it helped the team in the long term.

      As for who would start at PF (or center, since Johnson is a PF), I don't know, at this point. It's a long summer and there is still lots that could be done. That's one reason I would have liked to have seen the Charlotte deal done, but the Raptors still currently are overloaded at the PG/combo guard position, so another deal can still be made.

      The idea is to get the best players available. I believe Rubio is a franchise PG who might be available and would be a great fit for the Raptors. I think it simply makes sense to try and get him.
      Read my blog, The Picket Fence. Guaranteed to make you think or your money back!
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      • #18
        Mess wrote: View Post
        Tim said Jose and JJ ran one of the best offenses in the league, which is very true. He didn't mean they were offensive powerhouses on their own. They're good point guards.

        And if you read a few of his posts you'll quickly come to the conclusion that Tim wants his big men to rebound and play defense. Hence his desire to get rid of Bargs.
        Exactly!
        Read my blog, The Picket Fence. Guaranteed to make you think or your money back!
        Follow me on Twitter.

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        • #19
          i'm sorry, but the notion that even a retard like kahn would trade rubio (& filler to make the #s work) for bargnani (unless he knows with 100% certainty that rubio will NEVER play for minny) is simply delusional.

          rubio is regarded as one of the best pure PG prospects in 20 years.

          bargnani is regarded as a decently-talented offensive big man with perimeter skills & an aversion to rebounding & defense.

          there is NO WAY rubio is being dealt, and even if he was, it would take a helluva lot more than bargnani as the centrepiece to get it done.

          geez.
          TRUE LOVE - Sometimes you know it the instant you see it across the bar.

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          • #20
            yertu damkule wrote: View Post
            i'm sorry, but the notion that even a retard like kahn would trade rubio (& filler to make the #s work) for bargnani (unless he knows with 100% certainty that rubio will NEVER play for minny) is simply delusional.

            rubio is regarded as one of the best pure PG prospects in 20 years.

            bargnani is regarded as a decently-talented offensive big man with perimeter skills & an aversion to rebounding & defense.

            there is NO WAY rubio is being dealt, and even if he was, it would take a helluva lot more than bargnani as the centrepiece to get it done.

            geez.
            Bargnani still has the allure of potential, and his game still may look incredibly enticing to some GMs out there. The number of Raptor fans who still see him as a future All Star. Rubio hasn't played a minute in the league and there's a chance he might wait until he doesn't have to get paid rookie scale to come to the league, or just refuse to play in Minnesota. The T-Wolves would be getting something of value, and a young big man at that, immediately, instead of waiting for a player that may never come.

            Now, obviously I think much more highly of Rubio, but the circumstances that surround him lowers his trade value. And Bargnani could be enticing to a team that sees him as a potential matchup nightmare on the offensive end.
            Read my blog, The Picket Fence. Guaranteed to make you think or your money back!
            Follow me on Twitter.

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            • #21
              Tim W. wrote: View Post
              Bargnani still has the allure of potential, and his game still may look incredibly enticing to some GMs out there. The number of Raptor fans who still see him as a future All Star. Rubio hasn't played a minute in the league and there's a chance he might wait until he doesn't have to get paid rookie scale to come to the league, or just refuse to play in Minnesota. The T-Wolves would be getting something of value, and a young big man at that, immediately, instead of waiting for a player that may never come.

              Now, obviously I think much more highly of Rubio, but the circumstances that surround him lowers his trade value. And Bargnani could be enticing to a team that sees him as a potential matchup nightmare on the offensive end.
              i'd agree with you if not for the fact that rubio is still SO young...he - and whatever team owns his rights - can afford to wait...him for the best situation (from a team & financial standpoint), and the team until he's fully ready to contribute. even if that takes another few years, he'd still be in his very early 20's. i don't foresee a scenario in which rubio's value is lowered in the next 3 yrs, barring an injury or him forgetting how to play.
              TRUE LOVE - Sometimes you know it the instant you see it across the bar.

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              • #22
                yertu damkule wrote: View Post
                i'm sorry, but the notion that even a retard like kahn would trade rubio (& filler to make the #s work) for bargnani (unless he knows with 100% certainty that rubio will NEVER play for minny) is simply delusional.

                rubio is regarded as one of the best pure PG prospects in 20 years.

                bargnani is regarded as a decently-talented offensive big man with perimeter skills & an aversion to rebounding & defense.

                there is NO WAY rubio is being dealt, and even if he was, it would take a helluva lot more than bargnani as the centrepiece to get it done.

                geez.
                One of the best pure PG prospects in 20 years, who was drafted 5th overall last year. I think he will be fantastic, but not everyone does. Having said that, if MINN doesn't think that Rubio will play for them, then he will look for the best deal possible. Bargnani might not be enough, but it is hard to know his value to other teams, especially when you see the contracts that are being handed out to other bigs around the league.

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                • #23
                  Who has more potential , Amir or AB ?

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                  • #24
                    Honestly you can't try and rationalize what Kahn might or might not do. He is completely illogical and the only method to his madness is that he does things collectively. If he wants a point guard, he drafts three of them, if he wants wings he trades for one and drafts three more. Right now Kahn is in asset selling mode. He essentially just sold Jefferson for two guys named Williams so who knows what he wants for Rubio.

                    What is clear is that he has 0 desire to be competitive right away or try and win any games. Trading Bargs and two 1st's for Rubio might get it done, but then again so might Solomon Alabi.

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                    • #25
                      yertu damkule wrote: View Post
                      i'd agree with you if not for the fact that rubio is still SO young...he - and whatever team owns his rights - can afford to wait...him for the best situation (from a team & financial standpoint), and the team until he's fully ready to contribute. even if that takes another few years, he'd still be in his very early 20's. i don't foresee a scenario in which rubio's value is lowered in the next 3 yrs, barring an injury or him forgetting how to play.
                      Well, Bargnani is young, too, and if Kahn likes Bargnani's potential, then why not trade away a guy who has never played in the league and may never play for your team, why not pull the trigger? And in two more years, Rubio won't have to sign for the rookie minimum. He can demand whatever contract he feels he deserves, which I am betting will be more than $4 million. He's then a lot more difficult to trade, since only a team with cap room would be able to afford him.
                      Read my blog, The Picket Fence. Guaranteed to make you think or your money back!
                      Follow me on Twitter.

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                      • #26
                        Tim W. wrote: View Post
                        Well, Bargnani is young, too, and if Kahn likes Bargnani's potential, then why not trade away a guy who has never played in the league and may never play for your team, why not pull the trigger? And in two more years, Rubio won't have to sign for the rookie minimum. He can demand whatever contract he feels he deserves, which I am betting will be more than $4 million. He's then a lot more difficult to trade, since only a team with cap room would be able to afford him.
                        c'mon, tim. bargs will be, what, 25 at the start of the season? rubio will be 20 this fall, and likely 22 by the time he gets to the NBA (considering there's likely a lockout next year).

                        5 years is an eternity.
                        TRUE LOVE - Sometimes you know it the instant you see it across the bar.

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                        • #27
                          Rubio doesn't find Minnesota appealing though.

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                          • #28
                            Apollo wrote: View Post
                            Rubio doesn't find Minnesota appealing though.
                            few do. point wasn't that rubio would actually ever play in minny, it's the absurd notion that bargnani would be enough to acquire him.
                            TRUE LOVE - Sometimes you know it the instant you see it across the bar.

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                            • #29
                              I think it's conceivable Kahn would take Calderon to help transition Rubio to the team. Rubio is young, developing and very apprehensive to taking the NBA plunge; however, apparently he's warming up to Minny and Kurt Rambis. Jose has a lot of NBA experience and leadership qualities, and clearly the guy (Kahn) is not opposed to having a little depth at PG. Flynn is sent packing in the potential deal but I know TO probably doesn't want him so there would have to be a 3rd or even 4th team involved. Seems BryCo is hell bent on trading Jose for a centre if he's considering Hibbert now.

                              I just don't know what TO could get out of such a potentially complex deal, but I think Minny conceivably has reason for Calderon.
                              "Never compromise. Not even in the face of Armageddon."
                              ~Rorschach

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                              • #30
                                I like Rubio's game. Calderon's too, but Rubio can be a Chris Paul type of leader which this team needs. Calderon can't. However we shouldn't trade JC before Rubio has even entered the league. Giving Bargs for his rights right now would be bone headed. Like it or not Bargnani is the new leader.
                                Raptors fan for life....sadly.

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