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Shouldn't We HOPE For A Bad Year?

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  • #31
    bhattmagandhi wrote: View Post
    That way we can have a good chance of landing a top 3 lottery pick and REALLY start retooling & rebuilding this franchise, the conventional (i.e. OKC) way.
    Talk about a MLSE mind control subject....lol That's sounds almost llike the garbage that Knicks owners were kicking in order to justify their untenable roster during the past 2 years of the pre LBJ f/a event to their supporters & fans.

    There is no conventional way to build a Franchise as you need a mix of the draft, f/a, trades and player developement to build a winner. Bargnani was the top pick of the 2006 draft and 4 plus years later he's still just an average player.

    BC & Jay need to go- it's time for a more clearer Raptor vision with new ideas and new blood- DFerry & MBrown.

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    • #32
      we need another team.
      If Your Uncle Jack Helped You Off An Elephant, Would You Help Your Uncle Jack Off An Elephant?

      Sometimes, I like to buy a book on CD and listen to it, while reading music.

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      • #33
        LBF wrote: View Post
        we need another team.
        In Vancouver, that is!!!lol

        Rap's just need new experienced leadership like ex Cav's Ferry & MBrown who are both available as far as I know.

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        • #34
          Lark Benson wrote: View Post
          To those of you who think that free agency and trades are a better option for acquiring franchise-level talent in the NBA, you really need to open your eyes. Let's look at last year's standing, shall we?

          Eastern Conference

          1. Cleveland (drafted LeBron)
          2. Orlando (drafted Dwight Howard)
          3. Atlanta (drafted Al Horford, drafted Josh Smith, would probably be contending for a title if they drafted a point guard instead of Marvin Williams)
          4. Boston - the exception
          5. Miami - drafted Wade
          6. Milwaukee - drafted Bogut and Jennings
          7. Charlotte - team's going nowhere anyway, irrelevant
          8. Chicago - drafted Rose and Noah

          Western Conference

          1. Lakers - traded for Kobe on draft night
          2. Dallas - drafted Dirk
          3. Phoenix - drafted Amar'e, imported Nash even though they originally drafted him
          4. Denver - drafted Carmelo, traded for Nene on draft night
          5. Utah - drafted Williams and Boozer
          6. Portland - drafted Roy, Aldridge, and Oden though he hasn't had a chance to make an impact much
          7. San Antonio - drafted Duncan, Parker, Ginobli
          8. OKC - drafted Durant, Westbrook

          Now in nearly all of these cases, the franchise players for these teams have been drafted high in the lottery and their teams have built around them. Anyone still want to argue that you've got a better shot at putting together a team through free agency and trades?
          great post
          also to trade or acquire a franchise player through free agency usually means giving up young talent and draft picks...

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          • #35
            Lark Benson wrote: View Post

            To further prove my point, consider that aside from Boston in 07-08 and Detroit in 04-05, you have to go back to 82-83 and to Moses Malone's 76ers to find an NBA champion that was led by a player it had not drafted.
            Pistons 04-05 - Tayshaun Prince !!

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            • #36
              SirChillyMost wrote: View Post
              BC & Jay need to go- it's time for a more clearer Raptor vision with new ideas and new blood- DFerry & MBrown.
              ok if m. brown couldn't win with LBJ is that really the guy you want to bring here ?

              we need JVG !

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              • #37
                Lark Benson wrote: View Post
                To those of you who think that free agency and trades are a better option for acquiring franchise-level talent in the NBA, you really need to open your eyes. Let's look at last year's standing, shall we?

                Eastern Conference

                1. Cleveland (drafted LeBron)
                2. Orlando (drafted Dwight Howard)
                3. Atlanta (drafted Al Horford, drafted Josh Smith, would probably be contending for a title if they drafted a point guard instead of Marvin Williams)
                4. Boston - the exception
                5. Miami - drafted Wade
                6. Milwaukee - drafted Bogut and Jennings
                7. Charlotte - team's going nowhere anyway, irrelevant
                8. Chicago - drafted Rose and Noah

                Western Conference

                1. Lakers - traded for Kobe on draft night
                2. Dallas - drafted Dirk
                3. Phoenix - drafted Amar'e, imported Nash even though they originally drafted him
                4. Denver - drafted Carmelo, traded for Nene on draft night
                5. Utah - drafted Williams and Boozer
                6. Portland - drafted Roy, Aldridge, and Oden though he hasn't had a chance to make an impact much
                7. San Antonio - drafted Duncan, Parker, Ginobli
                8. OKC - drafted Durant, Westbrook

                Now in nearly all of these cases, the franchise players for these teams have been drafted high in the lottery and their teams have built around them. Anyone still want to argue that you've got a better shot at putting together a team through free agency and trades?
                This is confusing two different ideas:
                1. Drafted players are important
                2. Tanking is a good idea.

                The draft is a big source of talent. Almost every player in the league was drafted. But lots of the players on your list were not drafted in the top 3. Amar'e was drafted 9th. Wade was 5th. Kobe was 13th. Roy was 6th. Dirk was 9th and traded on draft night. Jennings went 9th. Pierce was 10th. Etc., etc.

                Even the guys who were top picks haven't led to many championships. Lebron left Cleveland. Dwight hasn't won anything. Carmelo hasn't won anything, and may well leave next year.

                The point is, there is no need to tank, and tanking has many downsides. Drafting in the top 3 guarantees nothing (see Bargnani, Andrea and Martin, Kenyon). Many, many franchise players are drafted in the lottery, and it is not uncommon for high draft picks to win their first championship with a team other than what drafted them (Gasol, Allen, Garnett, Billups, Wallace, Shaq). San Antonio did not get any of its draft picks by tanking: they sucked because David Robinson spent the year injured (similar to how the Heat got 2nd pick in the year Wade was injured the whole season). Manu and Parker were both late picks (Manu in the second round!)

                So lets look at the champions: Lakers: Did not tank. Traded for Gasol, Kobe was a 13th pick.
                Celtics: Drafted Pierce 10th and Rondo 26th. Traded for garnett and Allan
                Heat: drafted wade 4th, traded for Shaq
                Spurs: Drafted Duncan 1st, but didn't trade for him. Drafted Manu and Parker late.

                So yeah. Drafting well: good. Tanking: unnecessary and bad. Trading and signing free agents: also very important.

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                • #38
                  vinnie_paz wrote: View Post
                  ok if m. brown couldn't win with LBJ is that really the guy you want to bring here ?

                  we need JVG !
                  I doubt that the Rap's will win a championship in the near future thus the goal is to make the playoffs on a yearly basis and see what happens in the post season.

                  MBrown leads teams to 60 win seasons- 'nuf said.
                  Last edited by SirChillyMost; Wed Jul 21, 2010, 02:43 PM.

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                  • #39
                    Lark Benson wrote: View Post
                    To those of you who think that free agency and trades are a better option for acquiring franchise-level talent in the NBA, you really need to open your eyes. Let's look at last year's standing, shall we?

                    Eastern Conference

                    1. Cleveland (drafted LeBron)
                    2. Orlando (drafted Dwight Howard)
                    3. Atlanta (drafted Al Horford, drafted Josh Smith, would probably be contending for a title if they drafted a point guard instead of Marvin Williams)
                    4. Boston - the exception
                    5. Miami - drafted Wade
                    6. Milwaukee - drafted Bogut and Jennings
                    7. Charlotte - team's going nowhere anyway, irrelevant
                    8. Chicago - drafted Rose and Noah

                    Western Conference

                    1. Lakers - traded for Kobe on draft night
                    2. Dallas - drafted Dirk
                    3. Phoenix - drafted Amar'e, imported Nash even though they originally drafted him
                    4. Denver - drafted Carmelo, traded for Nene on draft night
                    5. Utah - drafted Williams and Boozer
                    6. Portland - drafted Roy, Aldridge, and Oden though he hasn't had a chance to make an impact much
                    7. San Antonio - drafted Duncan, Parker, Ginobli
                    8. OKC - drafted Durant, Westbrook

                    Now in nearly all of these cases, the franchise players for these teams have been drafted high in the lottery and their teams have built around them. Anyone still want to argue that you've got a better shot at putting together a team through free agency and trades?
                    It takes a mix of trades, drafting & f/a to build a team or as Miami and Boston have shown in recent years that a few thought out calculated moves can turn an average or below average team into certified NBA championship contenders via one off season.

                    LA wouldn't be LA w/o Gasol who was gifted to them from Memphis via NBA Svengali Stern or by acquiring Odom via trade or Artest via f/a.

                    Dallas is acquiring f/a's, conducting trades on a yearly basis to put talent around Dirk.

                    Denver acquired Billups, KMart, Birdman via trades.

                    Utah didn't draft Boozer.


                    I could go on but your post is very short sighted designed only to support your position which is flawed.

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                    • #40
                      @ Lark Benson

                      I apologize if I missed it but re: your position of solely/mostly relying on the draft and hence doing the tank....what's the backup plan for when your star player gets up and leaves the first opportunity he gets ...sometimes because he has arranged to play with his buds at another location.

                      Apparently winning 60 plus games two years running was not good enough for Lebron. I suppose he and his fans believe his team was not built for the playoffs!!

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                      • #41
                        Yeah the Cavs must feel even more wronged than Raptors fans. LeBron has actually had some decent success there.

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                        • #42
                          SirChillyMost wrote: View Post
                          Talk about a MLSE mind control subject....lol That's sounds almost llike the garbage that Knicks owners were kicking in order to justify their untenable roster during the past 2 years of the pre LBJ f/a event to their supporters & fans.
                          except the knicks had no friggin draft picks because isiah traded them all.

                          actually using our TPE, draft picks, and young talent to acquire high-priced vets that will allow us to barely compete for lousy playoff spots every year sounds more like the blueprint for isiah's knicks to me.

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                          • #43
                            Lark Benson wrote: View Post
                            So let me get this straight. Your argument is that BC is going to fix things, even though he was the guy responsible for all of the bad decisions that pushed Bosh out the door in the first place? How does that make any sense?
                            Bosh was part of the problem! not franchise player material. hard to build around a franchise player that u dont have! Bosh will never be in that group ever! BC never drafted or named Bosh the face of the franchise! Bosh already was that before BC got here. & im sure MLSE figured he'd be a franchise player & all the fans thought this too, soo BC had no choice really, he got given the job under good and bad circumstanses (good=cap space & bad= Bosh as the face!!! so what did he do? he did what everybody wanted & that was to build around Bosh, & Bosh did have plenty of supporting cast over the years but guess what he needs to be with a franchise player not be a franchise player to win.

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                            • #44
                              SirChillyMost wrote: View Post
                              I doubt that the Rap's will win a championship in the near future thus the goal is to make the playoffs on a yearly basis and see what happens in the post season.

                              MBrown leads teams to 60 win seasons- 'nuf said.
                              so if mike brown isn't coaching the cavs, they dont win 60 games?

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                              • #45
                                chris wrote: View Post
                                except the knicks had no friggin draft picks because isiah traded them all.

                                actually using our TPE, draft picks, and young talent to acquire high-priced vets that will allow us to barely compete for lousy playoff spots every year sounds more like the blueprint for isiah's knicks to me.
                                what picks or TPE or young talent has BC offered up this year? HE HASNT! we were the ones trying to trade the high priced vets!!!!!!!!!!!! & in return would have got some good value on short term contracts! get it straight!

                                past years can be excluded since BC was doing everything to please Bosh so he never left & that was an epic fail!

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