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Colangelo Says Bosh "Checked Out" (Sun Article Posted On Pg.6/Post #43)

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  • #76
    sleepz wrote: View Post
    If you were building around a PF who uses the mid-range game and gets to the line, Andrea Bargnani and Jose Calderon would be the guys you complimented him with? There was never a good shot creator on this team since Carter, which was always a glaring and obvious need.

    Thats why I am saying it was built 'with' him in mind. He acknowledged he was their best player but the players brought in to 'compliment' him was BC's vision of a international squad that ran and shot jumpers. Never any attention to defence, rebounding or shot-blocking. The type of teams assembled under BC's watch don't appear to me to be teams built around one player.

    It's all BC's vision. The only few year's where there was success was when we had a pg that could penetrate in Ford. BC never attempted to figure this out and duplicate this formula again.

    Why did he even fire Mitchell? He got them to the playoffs two years running and helped coach 8 new players to a division title and had a great relationship with Chris. He fired him at 8-9 cause he didn't like that he sat Bargnani who couldn't do what the coach needed him to do, yet Triano is still coaching this team? lol

    I'm not saying he never viewed Bosh as his best player but to me he never really built or continued to build a team around him properly contray to what he says to reporters and fans. I'm also not saynig that we would have had huge success trying to do it that way but I don't drink the BC koolaid he readily supplies the masses.

    He says he's accountable for the record but then goes on saying how they won 29 games before the break and then Bosh stopped playing. Doesn't a talented team still battle through injuries. I saw Portland do it last year, cause they are a deep talented team, the Raptors are not and he's the guy that created this team.
    So since BC was wrong at every turn and the Raptors are useless without your man crush, I'm assuming you will leave our graces and start cheering for the Miami bitches that could not lead their respective teams anywhere so decided long ago to collude and join forces and RuPaul forgetting about being the man so they could actually beat real teams with players that have heart like the Lakers, Celtics, and others. LeDouche and RuPaul are both egotistical bitches and they have admitted they cannot lead a team anywhere. All of a sudden RuPaul is talking about his teamates and posing with his teamates...how cute that in Toronto he never did that shit and spoke about his teamates unless a reporter asked him directly and he was always pissed to be asked about anything but himself. He's a dick and I cannot wait to see Garnett scare the shit out ohf him until the day he stops playing, or Gasol show him how a man plays. F**k RuPaul forever!!

    Comment


    • #77
      sleepz wrote: View Post
      If you were building around a PF who uses the mid-range game and gets to the line, Andrea Bargnani and Jose Calderon would be the guys you complimented him with? There was never a good shot creator on this team since Carter, which was always a glaring and obvious need.

      Thats why I am saying it was built 'with' him in mind. He acknowledged he was their best player but the players brought in to 'compliment' him was BC's vision of a international squad that ran and shot jumpers. Never any attention to defence, rebounding or shot-blocking. The type of teams assembled under BC's watch don't appear to me to be teams built around one player.

      It's all BC's vision. The only few year's where there was success was when we had a pg that could penetrate in Ford. BC never attempted to figure this out and duplicate this formula again.
      I disagree almost completely. Bargnani was picked because Lamarcus Aldridge played an identical style to Bosh. Bargnani could at least stretch out to the 3 point line. And please no Brandon Roy comment, no one thought he'd be the player he is right now.

      As for Jose Calderon, he had great offensive synergy with Bosh.

      I'm not sure what your love affinity for TJ Ford was, but you seem to have forgotten that he wasn't that great. Yes he was able to penetrate, but his mid-range game was barely average and he wasn't a threat from beyond the arc. Not to mention Mitchell's love affection for TJ-iso in late game situations to get a bucket... oh god the pain is coming back to me.

      Colangelo tried several strategies building around Bosh: Defense with Jermaine O'Neal/Marion, shot creator with Hedo Turkoglu, outside shooters with Delfino/Kapono/Parker/Bargs. I really don't understand how you think these were not built around Bosh.

      Comment


      • #78
        Pizzaman wrote: View Post
        Sleepz I'll give you your answer as to why the team played so poorly when RuPaul was not around. I've said it before and I'll say it again and I believe it will all my soul. The team was always and I stress always taught to play around RuPaul's game, and the players were cherry picked to play around RuPaul' game so much so that they don't know how to play wen he's not on the floor. All you need to do is watch the games he was out to see that as soon as RuPaul is hurt or sitting everyone becomes the offensive weapon / ball hog that RuPaul is when he's on the floor. They have no idea how to play team basketball and everyone is trying to make a huge impression. They need a long stretch with real coaching to learn how to play team ball, something they hae not played for alot of years in an effort to build a star that kids and idiots would worship.
        As for stat padding I will explain it to your stupid assine head. RuPaul was only ever concerned with his own stats...PERIOD> He cares and cared nothing of his team or teamates and it has showed with his deceipt of the franchise and how he has yet to mention his teamates etc..
        Oh and by the way in case you have not looked you my man are the lone voice in the woods not me. For every guy that agrees with you there are ten or more that agree with me. I do Know one fella ( I think?) that agrees with you and the is the greatest basketball idiot of all Khandor)
        Love more hate less except when it comes to RuPaul and Hate his Guts forever.
        "they were cherry picked to play around his game" thats quite the analysis. if you can come up with some actual proof or evidence of your jfk conspiracy theories it would be the first time you said something of subtance. i won't hold my breath as you typically spend more time trying to insult dudes than actually bring something, anything ball worthy to discuss.

        as for me being 'alone' do you think it's a validater that other posters comment along your lines? lol. i say let the sheep continue to be the sheep, my man. i don't need others to validate anything i think or say. i wonder what gm's and coaches think cause i'm more than willing to bet that they would agree with my point of view and laugh at your stat padding, selfish conspiracy theories. bosh took 16 shots a game. bargnani 12. where's the hog? he dropped 24 pts a game cause he went to the rack. thats an issue for you?. a 'stat padder' whatever that is, would have never been respected around the league and if you're going to say boshes game is not respected around the league than once again your hatred has erased any rationale thought you might have had. it's all good though, keep sticking to the insults as that is where your strength lies.

        Comment


        • #79
          Bosh doesn't have what it takes to be a franchise player and Bryan was right to call him on it, after all the yapping that Bosh has done since the season ended. Comparing Wade to Bosh is interesting.

          Last year's Miami Heat roster was stripped to almost nothing in an attempt to acquire cap space. Despite a joke of a supporting cast, Dwayne Wade carried the Heat to a 47 win season.

          The Raptors roster was deeper than Miami's, yet Chris Bosh could only lift his team to 40 wins last year.

          When Wade was paired with Jermaine O'Neal, the Heat won 47 games. When Bosh was paired with Jermaine O'Neal, the Raptors won 33 games.

          It seems that whatever you put around Wade - he makes them winners. Whatever you put around Bosh - it isn't good enough.

          Comment


          • #80
            Pizzaman wrote: View Post
            So since BC was wrong at every turn and the Raptors are useless without your man crush, I'm assuming you will leave our graces and start cheering for the Miami bitches that could not lead their respective teams anywhere so decided long ago to collude and join forces and RuPaul forgetting about being the man so they could actually beat real teams with players that have heart like the Lakers, Celtics, and others. LeDouche and RuPaul are both egotistical bitches and they have admitted they cannot lead a team anywhere. All of a sudden RuPaul is talking about his teamates and posing with his teamates...how cute that in Toronto he never did that shit and spoke about his teamates unless a reporter asked him directly and he was always pissed to be asked about anything but himself. He's a dick and I cannot wait to see Garnett scare the shit out ohf him until the day he stops playing, or Gasol show him how a man plays. F**k RuPaul forever!!
            I'm a Raptor fan and have been since '95. Ain't a damn thing changed. You love studying and watching a man's movements judging and hating all at the same time. It's quite humorous, but once again says nothing about BASKETBALL. Your assumptions about one man makes me think you're DeNiro obsessing over W. Snipes in The Fan. Relax, you have the team you wanted so the winning should commence as now they will be a real team and all of the assembled talent can shine without Bosh holding them down.

            I cannot wait to see Bosh win a few rings getting recognition and respect on a global level while you seethe, trying to diss him about something unrelated to basketball. lol

            Once again, if you have something basketball related to comment on (highly unlikely), get at me.

            Comment


            • #81
              Marz wrote: View Post
              I disagree almost completely. Bargnani was picked because Lamarcus Aldridge played an identical style to Bosh. Bargnani could at least stretch out to the 3 point line. And please no Brandon Roy comment, no one thought he'd be the player he is right now.

              As for Jose Calderon, he had great offensive synergy with Bosh.

              I'm not sure what your love affinity for TJ Ford was, but you seem to have forgotten that he wasn't that great. Yes he was able to penetrate, but his mid-range game was barely average and he wasn't a threat from beyond the arc. Not to mention Mitchell's love affection for TJ-iso in late game situations to get a bucket... oh god the pain is coming back to me.

              Colangelo tried several strategies building around Bosh: Defense with Jermaine O'Neal/Marion, shot creator with Hedo Turkoglu, outside shooters with Delfino/Kapono/Parker/Bargs. I really don't understand how you think these were not built around Bosh.
              No 'love affinity" for Ford, just an observation.

              Once you bring up Turkologu and 'shot creator' in the same sentence you've lost my attention.

              Comment


              • #82
                DirtyMikeSeaver wrote: View Post
                I'm pretty sure that The GM didn't wake up one day and hear Jalen Rose proclaim this and say "Wow, I had no clue he felt this way!" Nobody knows the Raptors more than him and if he couldn't get a true read on what Bosh was planning or doing, then that's on him. If Bosh really had no intention at all of coming back (and there's no proof of this) and he hoodwinked The GM, then the worst case scenario is that a 25 yr old kid outsmarted a 2 time Executive Of The Year that is supposed to be the smartest guy in the room. I'm not sure I would feel comfortable as a fan about this.

                The team was loyal to Chris Bosh because he was their best player. They gave him a max deal because he was a perrenial all star and he was the most popular player on the team and they made money off of him. They didn't trade him because they wouldn't get enough in a deal and because you don't trade players like him. He was no more 'loyal' to the team as he was to them. If he sucked or got injured or got in trouble, the Raptors would have traded him in a second. They didn't pay him this money because he was a nice guy. And if The GM did operate this team on the whims of Bosh and bend to his will, then that is once again an indictment on him. Toronto already went down this path once and it lead to Joey Graham. Michael Jordan was shown preferential treatment, but Jerry Krause made moves that Jordan didn't approve of (Horace Grant, Toni Kukoc, Ron Harper, not resigning Brad Sellars) to the point where Jordan was openly hostile to him, but he did what was best for the team. Same with LA and Kobe (Andrew Bynum).

                Look, I'm not saying that The GM didn't try, but it's his job, as talent evaluator and 'lead executive' to make tough decisions about how this team is headed. We can put all the excuses we want on this and what Bosh did and didn't say, but no one said the job was easy. And the talent he chose to put around Bosh turned out to be woefully inadequate. TJ Ford, Andrea Bargnani, Jarrett Jack, Jason Kapono, Jermaine O'Neil, Hedo Turkoglu. This isn't the Showtime Lakers.

                I guess what I should have conveyed in my first post is, I'm not quite sure WHY this interview happened and what I, as a fan, am supposed to take from this. Am I supposed to be mad at Bosh? Am I supposed to feel bad for The GM because he was dealt bad luck and was lied to? Maybe I interpreted it wrong, but it had the vibe of "Listen, it's not me, it was that our franchise player checked out and wasn't that talented in the first place". And it seems to be the mantra from all those connected from MLSE. I remember the day that he said he was going to Miami, the 2 announcers went on the FAN midday show and did the whole "No offence to Bosh, but while he was here, they never advanced past the 1st Round" thinking, like it was all his fault and that he wasn't worthy of being a 'franchise player'. But this guy was/is one of the best players in the league, checked out or not, and these guys don't grow on trees. This isn't hockey (when you can rely on a hot goalie) or football (where a great defence can cover for a bad QB). Talent wins in the NBA and no matter what system you have or how smart your coach is, it usually the guys with the best players wins and I can't see how the Raps are better without him. We went through this scortched earth policy before with our last 'franchise player' and it didn't turn out well and it feels like it's the same thing again.
                I think everyone can agree chris is a talented player but was/is he a franchise player. IMO he is not a franchise player and BC didn't have to come out with his statements for me to see that. One of the biggest problems with chris was that he didn't command a double team and that is mainly because he can't put his back to the basket. His defense was not the best especially when it comes to help defense. The league has so few good big men that bosh ends up looking better than he actucally is. BC in the interview was simply saying why things never worked out.

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                • #83
                  Jack Armstrong in Fan590 today questioned and condemned BC for saying what he said about Bosh. BC is embarrassing himself these days by acting like bitter looser.

                  Comment


                  • #84
                    sleepz wrote: View Post
                    No 'love affinity" for Ford, just an observation.

                    Once you bring up Turkologu and 'shot creator' in the same sentence you've lost my attention.
                    For what it's worth Marz and many others here have tried to point out to you that BC was entirely correct in saying he and MLE tried repeatedly to add pieces to build around RuPaul and compliment his game and yes Turk was a shot creator and a much better player until he joined forces with the RuPaul one man show. ( I will not let Turk off that easy because he is also a lazy fat piece of shit). The point everyone who actually sees the game without blowing RuPaul at the same time is that all the pieces were added to compliment RuPaul and he could not make anything work. Do not say they were the wrong pieces as they should have gotten stars as this was the best available. It's been said but while Miami was clearing cap space Wade still turned in a solid season with an inferior team to the Raptors, while RuPaul turned in a nice stat sheet.
                    Sleepz your comments say you are a disgruntled RuPaul fan rather than a Raptor fan and by the way I forgot more about basketball that you know. Also I am not obsessed with RuPaul as you put it, rather I am pissed that morons continue to praise the dick and slam everyone else. He's gone and good riddance. What happened to his only wanting to be the MAN??

                    Comment


                    • #85
                      grindhouse wrote: View Post
                      I think everyone can agree chris is a talented player but was/is he a franchise player. IMO he is not a franchise player and BC didn't have to come out with his statements for me to see that. One of the biggest problems with chris was that he didn't command a double team and that is mainly because he can't put his back to the basket. His defense was not the best especially when it comes to help defense. The league has so few good big men that bosh ends up looking better than he actucally is. BC in the interview was simply saying why things never worked out.
                      I think we saw over the 7 years that Bosh isn't a 'franchise player', but who is? There are maybe 5 guys in the league that you can say if he's the best player, you can definitely win a championship (Howard, LeBron, Wade, Durant, Kobe) and all of them has flaws (especially Howard). And LeBron felt he had to team up with Wade to win. And even Kobe, who has been annointed as the closest thing to Jordan, still needed guys like Gasol, Artest and Odom to win. So it's little unfair for The GM to take shots at him and say he wasn't worth 'franchise player' when they never paired him with a sure fire all star (or all star calibre talent) during his tenure here. Remember, someone gave Joe Johnson $120 Million. Another person gave Rudy Gay over $80 Million. For as flawed as Bosh was/is, he still is a top shelf talent and someone that can be a major contributor to a winning team. As flawed as John Hollinger's PER ratings are, the best guys that he played with during that time were Calderon and Ford during that 41-41 season (sadly, the 3rd best PER was Mike James 2 yrs before).

                      I just wish The GM would have gone on the radio and said something to the effect of "We can't look back, whatever happened happened and we have to look forward and I believe in the course we're taking and we have a clear vision where we want to be." Even if all this is true and Bosh was a tanker blah blah blah, this is still a team without a top shelf offensive threat, too many bad defensive players, too many point guards and too few options at the 3 and 5. He sounded like he was angry that he didn't sign with Houston or Chicago so he could get back more in a sign and trade (which was probably what he was banking on) so he decided to air his dirty laundry. Jack Armstrong made the best point. If Bosh had decided to come back, The GM and the organization would have welcomed him back with open arms and none of this would have seen the light of day.

                      Comment


                      • #86
                        Pizzaman wrote: View Post
                        For what it's worth Marz and many others here have tried to point out to you that BC was entirely correct in saying he and MLE tried repeatedly to add pieces to build around RuPaul and compliment his game and yes Turk was a shot creator and a much better player until he joined forces with the RuPaul one man show. ( I will not let Turk off that easy because he is also a lazy fat piece of shit). The point everyone who actually sees the game without blowing RuPaul at the same time is that all the pieces were added to compliment RuPaul and he could not make anything work. Do not say they were the wrong pieces as they should have gotten stars as this was the best available. It's been said but while Miami was clearing cap space Wade still turned in a solid season with an inferior team to the Raptors, while RuPaul turned in a nice stat sheet.
                        Sleepz your comments say you are a disgruntled RuPaul fan rather than a Raptor fan and by the way I forgot more about basketball that you know. Also I am not obsessed with RuPaul as you put it, rather I am pissed that morons continue to praise the dick and slam everyone else. He's gone and good riddance. What happened to his only wanting to be the MAN??
                        Others have tried to point out to me? What credentials do others have that 'others' opinions are the gospel? lol Do you think the racist tinged comments you throw out make you an authority about something? lol

                        You talk about "I forgot more about basketball that you know" and still refer to Turkologu as a shot creator? If you want to call him a shot facilitator you can but Turkologu is taking NO ONE off the dribble, not collapsing any defences, and then getting his teammates looks. Wade, Paul, Kobe, heck even Steven Jackson are shot creators, Turkolgu is definitely not. Don't overestimate your knowledge or underestimate mine.

                        The pieces that MLSE added were marginal at best (Turkologu, Marion for half a year, O'Neal, all average). As well they had a #1 pick and unfortunately did not get the best player in the draft. Hindsight is indeed 20/20 but facts are facts. Miami did have a better year than the Raptors cause Wade is a top 5 player in the NBA, and they had little roster turnover, played DEFENCE, and had better coaching and mangement. Tell me I'm lying.

                        I'm not a disgruntled Bosh fan, I'm just not an erratic delusional hater. Every GM and coach around the league disgrees with your opinion on the player but you hold steadfast. He decided he wants to go to a team and win so because he said he wants to BE THE MAN, I should hate on him like you did? His decision showed this wasn't the case, so doesn't this end your talk? Colangelo said he wants to bring championships to Toronto, but I don't see you hating on him for making this a non-desirable destination for real basketball players speaking his nonsense. Playing gimmick ball, running up and down the court trying to sell tickets through 3pt shots and scoring instead of defence and accountability is no way to win championships. I don't hear you saying a damn thing about giving #1 picks a free ride and not holding them accountable, when they proclaim their laziness. I can keep going believe me.

                        No one is praising anyone, just wondering where all the racist tinged hatred is coming from? You hear anything about noodles or pasta and it's racist and you're up in arms but your comments are all good and based on facts?
                        The dudes gone and you're still talking about him. Give it a rest and focus on the team you wanted for next year. Step to me anytime you have something ball related and i'll place you back in the rafters where you belong.

                        Comment


                        • #87
                          sleepz wrote: View Post
                          Others have tried to point out to me? What credentials do others have that 'others' opinions are the gospel? lol Do you think the racist tinged comments you throw out make you an authority about something? lol

                          You talk about "I forgot more about basketball that you know" and still refer to Turkologu as a shot creator? If you want to call him a shot facilitator you can but Turkologu is taking NO ONE off the dribble, not collapsing any defences, and then getting his teammates looks. Wade, Paul, Kobe, heck even Steven Jackson are shot creators, Turkolgu is definitely not. Don't overestimate your knowledge or underestimate mine.

                          The pieces that MLSE added were marginal at best (Turkologu, Marion for half a year, O'Neal, all average). As well they had a #1 pick and unfortunately did not get the best player in the draft. Hindsight is indeed 20/20 but facts are facts. Miami did have a better year than the Raptors cause Wade is a top 5 player in the NBA, and they had little roster turnover, played DEFENCE, and had better coaching and mangement. Tell me I'm lying.

                          I'm not a disgruntled Bosh fan, I'm just not an erratic delusional hater. Every GM and coach around the league disgrees with your opinion on the player but you hold steadfast. He decided he wants to go to a team and win so because he said he wants to BE THE MAN, I should hate on him like you did? His decision showed this wasn't the case, so doesn't this end your talk? Colangelo said he wants to bring championships to Toronto, but I don't see you hating on him for making this a non-desirable destination for real basketball players speaking his nonsense. Playing gimmick ball, running up and down the court trying to sell tickets through 3pt shots and scoring instead of defence and accountability is no way to win championships. I don't hear you saying a damn thing about giving #1 picks a free ride and not holding them accountable, when they proclaim their laziness. I can keep going believe me.

                          No one is praising anyone, just wondering where all the racist tinged hatred is coming from? You hear anything about noodles or pasta and it's racist and you're up in arms but your comments are all good and based on facts?
                          The dudes gone and you're still talking about him. Give it a rest and focus on the team you wanted for next year. Step to me anytime you have something ball related and i'll place you back in the rafters where you belong.
                          Can you please point out to me where my racist comments are? I am not a racist. Also can you explain what step to me means and place me back in the rafters? Is this some kind of slang? Also how exactly do you know that every GM and coach agrees with you. Funny that they all agree with you and Khandor since you apparently both know them perrsonally.

                          Comment


                          • #88
                            sleepz wrote: View Post
                            No 'love affinity" for Ford, just an observation.

                            Once you bring up Turkologu and 'shot creator' in the same sentence you've lost my attention.
                            Hedo Turkoglu demonstrated he was a point-forward, and therefore able to set his teammates up for shots (See Rashard Lewis) in Orlando. If you want to completely disregard that fact in your arguments, then I'm sorry, but you've lost my attention.

                            Comment


                            • #89
                              DirtyMikeSeaver wrote: View Post
                              I think we saw over the 7 years that Bosh isn't a 'franchise player', but who is? There are maybe 5 guys in the league that you can say if he's the best player, you can definitely win a championship (Howard, LeBron, Wade, Durant, Kobe) and all of them has flaws (especially Howard). And LeBron felt he had to team up with Wade to win. And even Kobe, who has been annointed as the closest thing to Jordan, still needed guys like Gasol, Artest and Odom to win. So it's little unfair for The GM to take shots at him and say he wasn't worth 'franchise player' when they never paired him with a sure fire all star (or all star calibre talent) during his tenure here. Remember, someone gave Joe Johnson $120 Million. Another person gave Rudy Gay over $80 Million. For as flawed as Bosh was/is, he still is a top shelf talent and someone that can be a major contributor to a winning team. As flawed as John Hollinger's PER ratings are, the best guys that he played with during that time were Calderon and Ford during that 41-41 season (sadly, the 3rd best PER was Mike James 2 yrs before).

                              I just wish The GM would have gone on the radio and said something to the effect of "We can't look back, whatever happened happened and we have to look forward and I believe in the course we're taking and we have a clear vision where we want to be." Even if all this is true and Bosh was a tanker blah blah blah, this is still a team without a top shelf offensive threat, too many bad defensive players, too many point guards and too few options at the 3 and 5. He sounded like he was angry that he didn't sign with Houston or Chicago so he could get back more in a sign and trade (which was probably what he was banking on) so he decided to air his dirty laundry. Jack Armstrong made the best point. If Bosh had decided to come back, The GM and the organization would have welcomed him back with open arms and none of this would have seen the light of day.
                              Alot of people are holding bosh leave against BC. It is BC job to explain how and why bosh leaving can be a good thing for the organization going forward. bosh wade lebron had this thing planned a long time ago bosh could have said 2 years ago he wasn't going to stay and let the organization start rebuilding but he didn't and he gets some well earn criticism for it.

                              Comment


                              • #90
                                Marz wrote: View Post
                                Hedo Turkoglu demonstrated he was a point-forward, and therefore able to set his teammates up for shots (See Rashard Lewis) in Orlando. If you want to completely disregard that fact in your arguments, then I'm sorry, but you've lost my attention.
                                Point forward in Orlando. Tell me how often you saw him take his man off the dirbble WITHOUT the pick from Howard or Lewis?

                                Calderon is a pg and anyone can tell you he's NOT a shot creator. He set-s up his teammates as a facilitator but is not a shot creator. Facilitating through pick and roll scenarios is not shot creating. Shot creators or at least ,how I know them to be referred as, are those players that can create their own shots and shots for others in man to man situations. Turkoglu is not that kind of player, neither in Toronto or was he in Orlando as his handles are not good enough and he is not quick enough to do this.

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