Hollinger Thinks The Raptors Are Losers

[heinz57]

Ohhhhhhhhhh.. I will totally take you up on that bet. There's no way Andrea averages more boards per game than Bosh.

bosh is going to be playing with something he has NEVER had before... a SG & SF who both are far more talented rebounders than he is..

on the raps, he could pad his rebounding numbers because somebody had to get the rebounds... and his teammates were always worse at it than he was, even though he was only ever a competent rebounder..

i have a feeling that most teams against the heat will opt to take the ball into the paint more often than not, because of bosh's suspect defense, and the rest of their decrepit, decaying and underpaid bigs... meaning less oppurtunities for def boards... which if i had to pick somebody on the heat to grab them boards, bosh would be about 4th or 5th on the list... and they dont even have half their roster yet..

im not saying bargs is a better rebounder... but should his numbers remain the same... and bosh's drop... i think it'll be alot more comparable statistically than people think

mind you, this is all based solely on the fact that i think bosh is going to be exposed for the mediocre rebounder he really is because he has to play with players who have more of a knack for it than he does

[TRX]

I would like to think some fans like to do more than go into every season blindly expecting an 82-0 season. I personally believe the team will win roughly thirty games, for what it's worth.

[Multipaul]

You know nothing about me. I was a season ticket holder for 5 seasons and I attend 10+ games a season. I was there for the lean years. I'm sure a lot of us were. I support them just as everyone else here does. I put out hard earned money to support them and cheer them on - as have many of us. I'm also a realist. I know this is going to be a tough season. The talent is there, but most of it hasn't been tapped as of yet. You can't piss on us and tell us that it's rain.
We haven't been out of the first round since 2001 and since that, close to 10 years now, we've won 5 playoff games. We just lost our best player this summer. I think that qualifies us as being losers.

Same here dude. We have all invested time and money and emotional support. But the word LOSER is not the right one to use here. We haven't even started yet. Take a positive attitude, we can re-convene at mid season and assign monikers to our team at that point.

By the way, our "best" player was unreliable, inconsistent, and failed in every attempt to take us to the "promised land" in the post season. Ask BC, he just told the world all about it on the FAN yesterday. We are BETTER without that dude man.

[MangoKid]

bosh is going to be playing with something he has NEVER had before... a SG & SF who both are far more talented rebounders than he is..

on the raps, he could pad his rebounding numbers because somebody had to get the rebounds... and his teammates were always worse at it than he was, even though he was only ever a competent rebounder..

i have a feeling that most teams against the heat will opt to take the ball into the paint more often than not, because of bosh's suspect defense, and the rest of their decrepit, decaying and underpaid bigs... meaning less oppurtunities for def boards... which if i had to pick somebody on the heat to grab them boards, bosh would be about 4th or 5th on the list... and they dont even have half their roster yet..

im not saying bargs is a better rebounder... but should his numbers remain the same... and bosh's drop... i think it'll be alot more comparable statistically than people think

mind you, this is all based solely on the fact that i think bosh is going to be exposed for the mediocre rebounder he really is because he has to play with players who have more of a knack for it than he does

His rebounding total will drop, but I don't think it will drop significantly. I think James and Wade will now defer most of the rebounding to Bosh. They know now that they won't have to do everything themselves.

[Sam]

Multipaul, Gamebreaker, Heinz57, I just come here to talk ball. I didn't realize there was going to be a test of fan purity. Why don't you guys just make your points? Feel free to disagree with things anyone else actually says but leave the oversimplifications out of it. What do you care if I'm not your kind of Raptor fan? There's plenty here who are.

[mo-sales]

Wait, so the raptors are losers because they dumped the LVP of the league and didn't pay 130 million for a one way player likely susceptible to major injuries with a documented history of shying away from the moment. If the raps are losers now I have no idea what Hollinger would call them if they had actually resigned Bosh and kept Turk.

Any team other than the Heat who signed any player to a max deal is a massive loser in my book. All the free agents were artificially inflated through their point guard, their contract year and the fact that teams freed up so much cap space. Not resigning Bosh reminds of the Grizzlies dumping Gasol. Yes the Lakers got the best end out of the deal because they won two rings, but the Grizz also got a younger, tougher, cheaper version of the player they traded.

The Heat are the big winners because they will roll to the finals, but who would want Bosh for 130 million over the next 6 years if he's not beside a Bron and/or Wade? The raptors are infinitely better off in the long term with two younger, cheaper PF's who play both ways, aren't distractions in the locker room, bad chemistry guys or phantom leaders. Plus they got two 1st round picks and a major chip to go grab an all star level talent without giving anything up.

What has Cleveland done to replace Bron or Phoenix to replace Amare? Bosh is a better player than Amir and Davis for sure, but I think the raptors have much better value now at the PF position.

[MangoKid]

Same here dude. We have all invested time and money and emotional support. But the word LOSER is not the right one to use here. We haven't even started yet. Take a positive attitude, we can re-convene at mid season and assign monikers to our team at that point.

By the way, our "best" player was unreliable, inconsistent, and failed in every attempt to take us to the "promised land" in the post season. Ask BC, he just told the world all about it on the FAN yesterday. We are BETTER without that dude man.

Let's see what Colangelo does between now and training camp. Maybe there's a trick or two up his tailored sleeves.

Our best player wasn't a leader, but he was our best player. You just don't get to 5-6 AllStar games on accident. He was our franchise player. Will we be a better team this team without him? No. But him sticking around wasn't going to do anything for us. I think we still would have treaded water, and he would have eaten up a lot of that cap. It was best that he went to another team and all the best to him.

It would be best to build players who buy into a system, a philosophy instead of guys worrying about touches and about who scores and who starts/sits. No one guy should be bigger than the team. Build around a team philosophy. That way you play for each other and the greater good instead of the name on the back

[heinz57]

His rebounding total will drop, but I don't think it will drop significantly. I think James and Wade will now defer most of the rebounding to Bosh. They know now that they won't have to do everything themselves.

his rebounding will drop because of wade and lebron...

BUT, his rebounding will drop even more having to play with big z and magloire as well..

biz z is half broken and old.. and magloire is a washed up overrated player.. but put either of them up front with bosh, and if i had to bet on somebody not getting the board, it'd be on bosh

hell... i can think of alot of situations that i'd pick joel anthony over him

[Multipaul]

It would be best to build players who buy into a system, a philosophy instead of guys worrying about touches and about who scores and who starts/sits. No one guy should be bigger than the team. Build around a team philosophy. That way you play for each other and the greater good instead of the name on the back

So true, so true. We have a real chance to do this, hopefully Triano and Carlessimo can formulate a structure/philosophy that will be effective.

[heinz57]

Multipaul, Gamebreaker, Heinz57, I just come here to talk ball. I didn't realize there was going to be a test of fan purity. Why don't you guys just make your points? Feel free to disagree with things anyone else actually says but leave the oversimplifications out of it. What do you care if I'm not your kind of Raptor fan? There's plenty here who are.

no disrespect man.. im just trying to have the only kind of conversation you can have in the offseason.... a hypothetical one

not agreeing with me doesnt make you any less a raps fan in my eyes... hell, i thought fred jones would be the savior of the raps once upon a time

[MangoKid]

his rebounding will drop because of wade and lebron...

BUT, his rebounding will drop even more having to play with big z and magloire as well..

biz z is half broken and old.. and magloire is a washed up overrated player.. but put either of them up front with bosh, and if i had to bet on somebody not getting the board, it'd be on bosh

hell... i can think of alot of situations that i'd pick joel anthony over him

While I understand your points, it's not hard to think that you're mad at the guy (at least judging from your avatar..haha). Illgauskas won't play many minutes at all and Magloire will see mop-up duty. There's no way in any game situation where you should be leaning on Joel Anthony over Chris Bosh. Bosh will play close to 36 minutes per game and should average 8-9 boards a game. Both Wade and Lebron will no longer feel like they have to do everything for their teams like they have in the past. They will learn to rely on each other and each other's strengths.

[MangoKid]

So true, so true. We have a real chance to do this, hopefully Triano and Carlessimo can formulate a structure/philosophy that will be effective.

Well, now we'll see what Triano is all about. If he stalls, I wouldn't be surprised to see the Raptors go overseas to snatch up Messina or David Blatt.

[Multipaul]

Well, now we'll see what Triano is all about. If he stalls, I wouldn't be surprised to see the Raptors go overseas to snatch up Messina or David Blatt.

Messina would be awesome, but I don't think we will ever see him in the NBA

[Arsenalist]

I would like to think some fans like to do more than go into every season blindly expecting an 82-0 season. I personally believe the team will win roughly thirty games, for what it's worth.

The Vegas over/under right now is 27. Seems bang on.

[heinz57]

While I understand your points, it's not hard to think that you're mad at the guy (at least judging from your avatar..haha). Illgauskas won't play many minutes at all and Magloire will see mop-up duty. There's no way in any game situation where you should be leaning on Joel Anthony over Chris Bosh. Bosh will play close to 36 minutes per game and should average 8-9 boards a game. Both Wade and Lebron will no longer feel like they have to do everything for their teams like they have in the past. They will learn to rely on each other and each other's strengths.

i dont buy it man... bosh has never shown to be able to play well with others... as a "franchise player" he should have been able to get his team past lower seeded division rivals and the city's most hated arch-nemesis in the first round of the playoffs..

i never could stand bosh... always came off as a loser... and the teams record while having him as the centerpiece support the argument.. and i always felt like his numbers were padded... his scoring is going to get cut in half in miami.. i doubt they'll be drawing up brilliant offensive sets like the "jose will pass to bosh.... and then..... and then.... and then... chris do something?" that happened here every other play for 7 yrs

plus i saw him shopping at winners once. ruined my opinion of the guy.