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  • The only actual evidence in the piece are his on-court/off-court numbers. I mentioned in the forum post about them recently that they aren't really very good for telling how good or bad a player is: they're best for comparing him to teammates at the same position.

    It mentions his defensive on-court numbers are the worst: it doesn't mention his offensive numbers are the second best. Why ignore half the data? If you are trying to use on-court off-court to measure overall effectiveness (which you probably shouldn't) heres the list of raptors who have played substantial minutes Andrea is better than:
    Demar derozan
    Sonny weems
    Reggie Evans
    Ed Davis
    Jerryd bayless
    Jarrett Jack

    So if you spend two seconds actually looking at the evidence they use, it doesn't really support them at all.

    Look, it's annoying when Andrea doesn't offer good help defense. But SI is just throwing shit at the wall trying to get page views.

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    • i was just gonna post this...thank you...it's seriously time for this guy to go
      "the raptors were my fav team growing up"-kevin durant

      Comment


      • 7 foot grabbing 5 boars a game...7 feet shooting 44% from the field...this guy makes me sick to my stomach...i said many times u cant have this guys work ethic rubbing off on the young guys
        "the raptors were my fav team growing up"-kevin durant

        Comment


        • Tim W. wrote: View Post
          Whoops, Malenko beat me to it.

          However much I like my opinion backed up, it can't be good that his incompetence on the defensive end of the floor is becoming so well known. On one hand, it might make Colangelo finally realize trading him is the best thing for the franchise, but on the other hand, it might make trading him that much more difficult.

          On a side note, does Bargnani remind you of climate change? Sure, there are still climate change deniers out there, but it's become pretty impossible for a reasonably thinking person to ignore the overwhelming amount of evidence.
          Climate change is an excellent Metaphor for Bargs and the Raptors D in General. The Raptors are the world, our bad D is climate change, and Bargs is carbon emissions.

          Climate change is a phenomenon that we know is occurring and evidence would seem to indicate that it is due to high CO2 in the atmosphere due to fossil fuel use. That has become the accepted hypothesis, and most people will tell you that it's the truth; however, there is a growing number of people in the scientific community that question this theory. While climate change has been proven as fact (much like the Raptors shitty D is a fact) the cause and what to do about climate change are not as clear cut as many people believe. There are many alternative theories to why the earth is getting warmer that are unrelated to atmospheric CO2 content, but the point here is that just lowering emissions will not fix the problem, much like trading Bargnani will not fix the problem. Lowering emissions may stop the problem from getting worse but that is assuming the problem is Carbon emissions (Bargs) and not the natural cycle of heating and cooling the Earth follows before and after ice ages (the defensive system and a lack of commitment by ownership to try to make this a good defensive team).

          What I'm getting at is getting rid of Bargs is probably not a bad thing, much like lowering carbon emissions is good in that it will reduce air pollution. The fact is though, just lowering CO2 emissions to some arbitrary value is not going to fix the climate problem, and in the end could have no effect on climate change. Plus, like climate change, there is the opposing view that the economy (offense) will suffer from a ban on CO2.

          I like extended metaphors.
          Last edited by hateslosing; Wed Mar 23, 2011, 01:27 AM.
          "Victory at all costs, victory in spite of all terror, victory however long and hard the road may be; for without victory, there is no survival."

          -Churchill

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          • Multipaul wrote: View Post
            very original post! No link to article either! I thought these posts go with the other 89000 bargs hatin posts in 'everything bargnani'. Btw SI hates every player not named kobe, wade, or lebron. You should read the ish theyve written about bosh, carter, mcgrady, stoudemire, and other raps. In a nutshell SI dont like the Raps. Keep ur head up, stay positive kid, drink some gatorade
            Paul, here's the link, not that it would matter to remotely allow yourself to be objective as far as AB is concerned. Scroll down to the number 26. Enjoy.
            “The saving of our world from pending doom will come, not through the complacent adjustment of the conforming majority, but through the creative maladjustment of a nonconforming minority.” - Martin Luther King

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            • bigmanshaq wrote: View Post
              That would be quite the scenario if we traded Barg for a second high lottery pick. say if we draft Barnes with the first one, then kanter the second one. we might have something that resembles a good team later on down the road:
              1. Jose/ Bayless
              2. Demar/
              3. Barnes/ James Johnson
              4. Ed Davis/ Amir
              5. Kanter/ Ajinca

              Offensively we should be able to compensate for the lost of Barg, as both Barnes/ Kanter are solid offensive players, factor in Demar's progression in the second year, which led me to believe he will be even better in 3rd year.
              Defensively we also improves because both draftees are good defensive player, Kanter also provide that "muscle" that's been lacking with the raps.
              Kanter has injury probs.

              Comment


              • Tim W. wrote: View Post
                On a side note, does Bargnani remind you of climate change? Sure, there are still climate change deniers out there, but it's become pretty impossible for a reasonably thinking person to ignore the overwhelming amount of evidence.
                If climate change is the annology... then what Tim W. said is the reality.

                Oncourt Offense vs Offcourt:
                +3.5
                Oncourt Defense vs Offcourt:
                +6.1 (defense scores 6.1 pts more when he is on the floor, so you can think of it as -6.1)
                Net: - 2.6

                Net PER:
                pf: -4.4
                C: -4.7

                Yes this may change if he had the right "system" or player beside him..... unfortunately there is only 1 Dwight Howard (Raps really missed out on Gortat... Pietrus + Gortat for Bargs? Man that would have been nice). Which is likely the only player in this league that could compensate for him.

                This team cannot move forward to overcome "climate change" until the greatest contributor to the problem is either reduced or eliminated. Otherwise all you are doing is putting a band aid on a severed limb.

                Comment


                • boring, another bargs topic!
                  Let's go Raptors!

                  Comment


                  • Dr Hannibal Lecter wrote: View Post
                    Toronto Raptors (20-50)

                    Soft is too kind a word for the indifference Andrea Bargnani displays as the man he is supposedly guarding glides past him for a layup. The most frequently used five-man lineups in Toronto pair the 7-foot Bargnani with a rugged power forward, usually Amir Johnson or Reggie Evans. But that isn't enough to prevent the Raptors from yielding the most points in the paint in the NBA. Toronto permits the most attempts and the most conversions of shots at the rim and it allows the highest percentage of conversions on shots from 3-9 feet. Bargnani doesn't exactly strive to prevent this -- his foul rate is the lowest of his career, and his negative impact on the Raptors' defensive efficiency is the highest on the team, according to Basketball Value. That he is under contract at a higher salary and a longer period of time than anyone on the roster bodes ill for Toronto's future.

                    P.S

                    I realize there is thread everything about andrea..and if the moderator want's 2 move it..go ahead it's cool...but this thread is about one of the biggest sports media in states SI basicaly saying what I and every freakin fan of raptors have been sayin since the day of Time...ANDREA SUCKS BALLS...

                    Cheers...
                    You should always post links when posting other people's work. The problem is two fold. Writers don't like it when they don't get credit for their work and we don't know if it's legit.

                    Comment


                    • malefax wrote: View Post
                      The only actual evidence in the piece are his on-court/off-court numbers. I mentioned in the forum post about them recently that they aren't really very good for telling how good or bad a player is: they're best for comparing him to teammates at the same position.

                      It mentions his defensive on-court numbers are the worst: it doesn't mention his offensive numbers are the second best. Why ignore half the data? If you are trying to use on-court off-court to measure overall effectiveness (which you probably shouldn't) heres the list of raptors who have played substantial minutes Andrea is better than:
                      Demar derozan
                      Sonny weems
                      Reggie Evans
                      Ed Davis
                      Jerryd bayless
                      Jarrett Jack

                      So if you spend two seconds actually looking at the evidence they use, it doesn't really support them at all.

                      Look, it's annoying when Andrea doesn't offer good help defense. But SI is just throwing shit at the wall trying to get page views.
                      +1

                      Comment


                      • Balls of Steel wrote: View Post
                        Paul, here's the link, not that it would matter to remotely allow yourself to be objective as far as AB is concerned. Scroll down to the number 26. Enjoy.
                        LMAO, isn't that like the kettle calling the pot black buddy?

                        Comment


                        • Multipaul wrote: View Post
                          LMAO, isn't that like the kettle calling the pot black buddy?
                          I go with numbers (on defence AND offence), read a lot and I watch games both on TV and live. I don't go for gawdy one-sided skills. Don't get me wrong, his shooting ability and off-the-dribble moves are amazing to this day. However, outside of that, there's not much to fall in love with (as far as I'm concerned). I don't and won't question your admiration for his game. I can see why you like him - he's not absolutely worthless. Conversely, his game is not something I value to help this franchise moving forward in my opinion. Other sports writer and analysts think so as well. My thinking, or others is hardly unique, much like your thinking is hardly unique about how good you think Andrea is.
                          “The saving of our world from pending doom will come, not through the complacent adjustment of the conforming majority, but through the creative maladjustment of a nonconforming minority.” - Martin Luther King

                          Comment


                          • bargnani bashing threads

                            whats up? that last two threads bashing this clown have disappeared
                            "the raptors were my fav team growing up"-kevin durant

                            Comment


                            • They got moved into the 'Everything Bargnani' thread. Appropriately.

                              Comment


                              • malefax wrote: View Post
                                The only actual evidence in the piece are his on-court/off-court numbers. I mentioned in the forum post about them recently that they aren't really very good for telling how good or bad a player is: they're best for comparing him to teammates at the same position.

                                It mentions his defensive on-court numbers are the worst: it doesn't mention his offensive numbers are the second best. Why ignore half the data? If you are trying to use on-court off-court to measure overall effectiveness (which you probably shouldn't) heres the list of raptors who have played substantial minutes Andrea is better than:
                                Demar derozan
                                Sonny weems
                                Reggie Evans
                                Ed Davis
                                Jerryd bayless
                                Jarrett Jack

                                So if you spend two seconds actually looking at the evidence they use, it doesn't really support them at all.

                                Look, it's annoying when Andrea doesn't offer good help defense. But SI is just throwing shit at the wall trying to get page views.
                                No one is discounting Bargnani's offense, but when you're as bad on the defensive end as Bargnani, it's a team killer. No way to get around it. If he's one of the worst defensively and one of the best offensively, then doesn't that make him an average player? What is the point of bashing our heads against the wall trying to figure out how to keep a guy who is basically an average player? I simply don't get it.
                                Read my blog, The Picket Fence. Guaranteed to make you think or your money back!
                                Follow me on Twitter.

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