Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Everything Bargnani

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • tbihis wrote: View Post
    Dont get me wrong here guys, i dont have a man-crush on bargs.

    If he were to be packaged on a deal that would get us John Wall or Derrick Rose or Dirk i wouldnt even give him a second look, but the fact of the matter is, those deals aint happening and for the meantime we are stuck with bargs so we gotta deal with that. love your own so to speak. and if there is a possibility that we can get those guys without including bargs then im all for it as well.

    i just dont fancy tags such as "worst" rebounder ever or "worst" defensive player.....when you think of worst, araujo comes to mind (yeah i really hate that guy). but Bargs aint the worst, not the best either. average or maybe a little bit above average.

    but hey, everybody is entitled to their own opinion. ill just rebutt it if i dont like it, hehehe
    There is overwhelming statistical evidence and opinion among knowledgable basketball minds that Bargnani is not even close to an average defensive player. He is one of the worst at his position, and one of the worst among big men in the league. He's literally a massive liability on that end of the court. I've noticed time and time again opposing teams focus their offense at Bargnani, knowing he was such a weak defender. In overtime against Milwaukee, Jack Armstrong even commented on how Milwaukee was trying to isolate Bargnani and go at him.

    And, per minute, Bargnani is the worst rebounder among centers that qualified, but even worse, he's 5th worst in the league among ALL centers, above two guys who didn't grab any rebounds in limited minutes, Jarron Collins, who's played only 23 games at 6.8 mpg and Fabricio Oberto, who played five games before retiring with hear problems.
    http://espn.go.com/nba/statistics/pl...nters/count/81

    Stick Bargnani at power forward, and he becomes the 91st best rebounder at that position, or 16th worst, ahead of mostly scrubs who barely play, and Danilo Gallinari, who is simply listed as a forward.

    So that means that Bargnai is 172 in rebounds per 48 minutes among all big men in the league. Out of 192.

    172!!!!!!!!

    How can this not worry you?

    I'm sorry, but anyone that argues that Bargnani isn't a bad rebounder either has absolutely no idea what they're talking about or purposely chooses to ignore the overwhelming evidence to the contrary. I'm assuming these are the same people who argue that the universe is only 4.5 thousand years old.
    Read my blog, The Picket Fence. Guaranteed to make you think or your money back!
    Follow me on Twitter.

    Comment


    • tbihis wrote: View Post
      Im kinda all Bargnani-ed out. I went toe to toe with Tim W. in a previous post and i just got exhausted going around in circles.

      I dont think anybody here is saying he's the next Wilt Chamberlain (although he might be getting the ladies, who knows) but he certainly aint Araujo's big brother either.

      Fact of the matter is, this guy can score. But he plays lousy defense and a decent rebounder at best. Should he be traded? IMO, definitely not. You can pick off any bum on the street and give him a million bucks to shadow an opponent for 48 minutes and he'll do it, but you cant give the same guy 10mil and ask him to score 20pts a game, he can try, but probably wont be able to. Like i always say, get a defensive big beside him and he'll be fine. It takes talent to score, and perseverance to be a good defender, which Bargnani doesnt have. There are guys in the league who score a lot and doesnt do much in other cats (terry, crawford) but they still contribute to their team's winning ways. Like it or not, every sport, basketball included, the objective is to score more points than your opponent. When it goes down the wire, tied game and its your ball, youd still want Bargnani taking the last shot rather than your greatest defensive player.

      he's definitely not a franchise player, but 2nd or 3rd scoring option is what he is.
      Any decent player(even the ones in YMCA) should be able to average 20 ppg on 18 shots. People overvalue this guy's offense, it is not even efficient lol.

      Comment


      • Tim W. wrote: View Post
        There is overwhelming statistical evidence and opinion among knowledgable basketball minds that Bargnani is not even close to an average defensive player. He is one of the worst at his position, and one of the worst among big men in the league. He's literally a massive liability on that end of the court. I've noticed time and time again opposing teams focus their offense at Bargnani, knowing he was such a weak defender. In overtime against Milwaukee, Jack Armstrong even commented on how Milwaukee was trying to isolate Bargnani and go at him.

        And, per minute, Bargnani is the worst rebounder among centers that qualified, but even worse, he's 5th worst in the league among ALL centers, above two guys who didn't grab any rebounds in limited minutes, Jarron Collins, who's played only 23 games at 6.8 mpg and Fabricio Oberto, who played five games before retiring with hear problems.
        http://espn.go.com/nba/statistics/pl...nters/count/81

        Stick Bargnani at power forward, and he becomes the 91st best rebounder at that position, or 16th worst, ahead of mostly scrubs who barely play, and Danilo Gallinari, who is simply listed as a forward.

        So that means that Bargnai is 172 in rebounds per 48 minutes among all big men in the league. Out of 192.

        172!!!!!!!!

        How can this not worry you?

        I'm sorry, but anyone that argues that Bargnani isn't a bad rebounder either has absolutely no idea what they're talking about or purposely chooses to ignore the overwhelming evidence to the contrary. I'm assuming these are the same people who argue that the universe is only 4.5 thousand years old.
        Bummer. No argument from me.

        Comment


        • coastal wrote: View Post
          Yeah, critical reading key would be "I don't think it will happen", which is to say, I don't think it will happen.

          "Usually, guys like Bargnani go to a team where they hold you accountable and sit on the bench [sic]"

          I would contend that there have been few "guys like Bargnani" who have been "gambled" on. He is not a Darko, Kwame or Olowakandi. He has relatively unique offensive talents. At the risk of revealing that I don't, in fact, follow the NBA much, or watch any basketball at all, even, I would hypothetically state again - you put him on the Celtics and I think he would be deadly.
          Obviously it's opinion on both our parts, but I've got more history on my side. And I'm not referring to guys like Kwame or Olowakandi who were simply unskilled players who never panned out. I'm talking about guys like Charlie Villanueva who certainly have talent, and can give you points, but otherwise do nothing to help your team win. The NBA is full of those types of guys and lots of teams always take them on because they feel that if they can harness their talents, then they'll be a great player. It's basically like playing the lottery. Good teams don't generally do that because they don't have to.

          Talking about Boston, Nate Robinson is an example of a player who was a good scorer on a bad team, who joined the Celtics and suddenly his role was very diminished. Yes, he still plays, but not 30 mpg he played in his last full season in New York. He's a role player who plays less than 20 mpg. And if they had a better option at backup PG, they'd probably go with that, instead.
          Read my blog, The Picket Fence. Guaranteed to make you think or your money back!
          Follow me on Twitter.

          Comment


          • coastal wrote: View Post
            Yeah, critical reading key would be "I don't think it will happen", which is to say, I don't think it will happen.

            "Usually, guys like Bargnani go to a team where they hold you accountable and sit on the bench [sic]"
            Also, I assume you didn't mean anything by it, but putting what I said in quotes was enough to tell people I wrote that. By including "sic" it seems like a shot at me for making what was basically a typo. It's as if you want to highlight my error, which I don't appreciate. For the most part, my posts are pretty grammatically correct, but I'm human and type quickly. Mistakes happen.
            Read my blog, The Picket Fence. Guaranteed to make you think or your money back!
            Follow me on Twitter.

            Comment


            • Multipaul wrote: View Post
              You guys lay the hate on too hard on Bargs. He is playing through injuries and the flu. He is also not whining and bitching about it like Amir and Sonny. Give the guy a break. He is our best player and we are lucky to have him. Where would we be without him? Cleveland?

              People that post on here about "Italian nepotism" like A-dub don't even realize they are making borderline/notborderline racist commetns that offend alot of readers.
              c'mon, man.

              first off - if you're going to be shit, then BE SHIT. fail completely, and there is then no misconception about who/what you are as a franchise. cleveland is in a horrible spot, but that actually helps them in the long-term, 'cause no matter how hard they polish the turd, it's still a turd...they know they have to tear it down, figure out what players have value as cornerstones of the rebuilding process (and keep them), and get rid of everyone else.

              now that TO is in, essentially, the same position (i mean, they have identical records over the last few weeks, don't they?), they don't have much choice but to commit to a rebuild (and not one of BC's infamous ('retoolings'). do i trust him to do so? of course not.

              oh, and the thing about how a-dub comments about the nepotism in place with this organization...STFU. it's not as though the nba is overrun with italians, so to suggest that it's mere coincidence that the five-year-fiasco that has been bargnani/gherardini's tenures in TO have NOTHING to do with the fact they're italian, and both arrived on the scene at the precise moment a man of italian lineage (unless colangelo is greek or spanish) took control...well, i dunno what to tell you, other than i have some land in manhattan for sale...you just send me the deposit (only $10K!!), and i'll get the deed in the mail tomorrow. you seem like the trusting type.

              btw - bargnani for allstar '11!!! FTW!
              TRUE LOVE - Sometimes you know it the instant you see it across the bar.

              Comment


              • Tim W. wrote: View Post
                The thing is, though, I'm not exaggerating the importance of defense. And you're not taking into consideration that there is such thing as a player who is actually a liability at something (Bargnani with defense) as opposed to a player who is just not really good at something (Kendrick Perkins and scoring). You see, Perkins isn't a liability on the offensive end. if you give him the ball, he's not going to turn it over and he can score well around the basket. This isn't Reggie Evans who has trouble hitting a layup. Evans is literally a liability on the offensive end of the court because he's such a poor shooter.
                See thats what im been trying to make you notice. Some people are just not that good in some categories. Even if defense is such a vital part in basketball, why cant you accept the fact that Bargs is just not that good in defense? i mean everybody is acknowledging that fact, but the difference between you and us is youre not willing to go past that and look at Bargs scoring abilities. When it comes to Bargs, you look at scoring and defense as something that comes hand in hand but when you look at a guy like perkins, as long as he plays good defense, you can get past his scoring inabilities, and thats what i dont get. You keep saying liability vs "just not being good" but isnt not being good a liability? i dont think you can explain that any further. if youre not good at something, then you are a liability. but the question is, is bargs liability on defense makes him a bad player like what everybody makes him out to be? IMO, no. Because he can score the basketball. Same with Perkins. Is he a liability on the court because he cannot score the basketball and only play defense, IMO, no. And for the record, Perkins is a liability on the offensive end. He has 2 turnovers for every 6 attempts. Bargs has 1.5TO for every 14 attempts. both evans and perkins are not scorers so they are liabilities on the offensive end, period. Also, liability on defense can be solved with a double team, triple team, zone. How can you solve a liability on offense? i guess a screen but if the guy has an awkward shot (except marion and noah), theres no cure for that.

                Besides, unlike scoring, defense is not something you can simply leave up to other players. As long as you aren't a liability on the offensive end, your man at least has to respect you. Shane Battier isn't going to score 20 ppg, but his defender simply can't leave him because he CAN hit an open shot. He's not a liability on offense. He's simply not a good scorer.
                i agree with this. and youre right, leaving anybody open in the NBA is pretty much a sure 2 pts, but the thing is, youre making out Bargnani as a statue-defender, when he sees a player hit the lane, he doesnt just stand there, he tries to challenge but he just isnt an instinct defender. same with any other player on the offensive end, give them an open shot, they will take but doesnt mean theyll make it, well unless its steph curry or reggie miller, with bargs on defense, he'll try to wave his hands to put a body but the other player still scores because he just isnt a brilliant defender. but on the bright side, he still can distract shots and is a wide body in the lane.

                Bruce Bowen was a fantastic defender, but Pat Riley didn't re-sign Bruce Bowen because, while he was a great defender, he was a liability on the offensive end. Bowen worked on his shot and ended up leading the NBA in 3-point shooting one year. Without that shot, Bowen would never have had the career he did.
                not sure about that, he's taken the same number of 3s year after year in his career, but just for arguements sake, if he didnt improve his 3pt shooting, do you think nobody else in the NBA wouldve still taken him? I think not. Some team wouldve still taken him BECAUSE of his defense despite his horrendous offense. Same with Bargs, despite his defensive lapses, he is still a good player, and his offense is what will keep him employed in the NBA.

                Dennis Rodman was obviously a superb defender and rebounder, and couldn't score at all, but he wasn't a liability on the offensive end for several reasons. The first is that he was such a good offensive rebounder that his man couldn't leave him on offense because he had to box him out or else give up loads of second chance points. Secondly, Rodman shot a decent percentage from the field. Unlike Reggie Evans, he's not going to miss a layup if you give him a pass under the basket. Thirdly, Rodman had a very high basketball IQ. He was an excellent passer and always knew when and where to cut and pick for his teammates.
                Im just curious, and i really dont know the answer, but besides Rodman, who else is a candidate, or is already in the HOF that is not, a double-digit scorer? I just want to know if the Hall, which is the highest prestige a guy can be given for his career, does give honor to just defense

                What you need to realize is there have been plenty of players who were not good offensive players, but great defensive players, who played very large roles (often as starters) on Championship teams. There are VERY few players who were not good defenders, but great offensive players, who played a large role on a Championship team. Why do you think that is?
                i do realize that. it has to be a balance of defense and offense, but, you just mentioned that very few players wo were not good defensively but great offensively who played a large role on a championship team, and if the raps get a championship then you will probably add bargs to the VERY few and then we'll all be very happy.

                Comment


                • Tim W. wrote: View Post
                  Also, I assume you didn't mean anything by it, but putting what I said in quotes was enough to tell people I wrote that. By including "sic" it seems like a shot at me for making what was basically a typo. It's as if you want to highlight my error, which I don't appreciate. For the most part, my posts are pretty grammatically correct, but I'm human and type quickly. Mistakes happen.
                  [sic] was a bit much. Little bit too formal I'd say. haha Especially for something so miniscule as that.
                  If we were doing that for every time we found a typo in someones quote, well.. .we'd do it everytime!

                  Comment


                  • Multipaul wrote: View Post
                    You guys lay the hate on too hard on Bargs. He is playing through injuries and the flu. He is also not whining and bitching about it like Amir and Sonny. Give the guy a break. He is our best player and we are lucky to have him. Where would we be without him? Cleveland?

                    People that post on here about "Italian nepotism" like A-dub don't even realize they are making borderline/notborderline racist commetns that offend alot of readers.
                    I'm sorry, injuries and flu are not an excuse when your healthy, because even when he is healthy, he still can't rebound, he's simply put; allergic to boards.

                    Comment


                    • tbihis wrote: View Post
                      See thats what im been trying to make you notice. Some people are just not that good in some categories. Even if defense is such a vital part in basketball, why cant you accept the fact that Bargs is just not that good in defense? i mean everybody is acknowledging that fact, but the difference between you and us is youre not willing to go past that and look at Bargs scoring abilities. When it comes to Bargs, you look at scoring and defense as something that comes hand in hand but when you look at a guy like perkins, as long as he plays good defense, you can get past his scoring inabilities, and thats what i dont get. You keep saying liability vs "just not being good" but isnt not being good a liability? i dont think you can explain that any further. if youre not good at something, then you are a liability. but the question is, is bargs liability on defense makes him a bad player like what everybody makes him out to be? IMO, no. Because he can score the basketball. Same with Perkins. Is he a liability on the court because he cannot score the basketball and only play defense, IMO, no. And for the record, Perkins is a liability on the offensive end. He has 2 turnovers for every 6 attempts. Bargs has 1.5TO for every 14 attempts. both evans and perkins are not scorers so they are liabilities on the offensive end, period.
                      Why can't I simply accept that Bargnani is a bad defensive player and move on? Because he hurts the team. Because I have minimum expectations for players, and one of them is to play, at least, adequate defense, because if they don't, it makes it makes it so much more difficult to win if you have a bad defensive player on your team. Because the way to play Championship basketball is by everyone playing defense.

                      And you completely misunderstand what I mean by liability. Bargnani is a liability on the defensive end because he allows his opponent to play much better than he normally would. Is Kendrick Perkins a good offensive player? No. But how is he a liability? A liability means he actually HURTS the team on the offensive end. Perkins doesn't. He's not asked to score much because there are so many other scorers, but give him the ball under the basket and he'll hit the shot. He shot 60% from the field last season. It's really difficult to say that a guy is a liability on offense when he's shooting 60% from the field.

                      You know who's a liability on the offensive end? Reggie Evans. You know why? Because he's shooting 36% from the field for the season. That would be acceptable if he was shooting mostly threes, but most of his shots come from within 2 or 3 feet of the basket. Most guys who are literally offensive liabilities don't play much. Remember Antoine Wright last year? He was an offensive liability because he shot 40% from the field, never seemed to understand when to shoot and when not to and wasn't a good passer. He actually hurt the team on the offensive end. And now he's out of the league despite his defense.

                      tbihis wrote: View Post
                      Also, liability on defense can be solved with a double team, triple team, zone. How can you solve a liability on offense? i guess a screen but if the guy has an awkward shot (except marion and noah), theres no cure for that.
                      Covering a bad defensive player by double teaming or triple teaming his man doesn't solve the problem. It just moves it around. If you have to double team a guy everytime he gets the ball because your teammate is a bad defender, then you're leaving someone open. And if the team has to adjust to that, it means that EVERYONE needs to play better team defense, which Bargnani also doesn't do.

                      Besides, double teaming doesn't solve him being such a poor team defender. Not even Dwight Howard will do that because teams will work to expose him on defense, no matter who he's paired with.

                      And if a guy is truly a liability on offense, it's difficult to cover that. That's why guys like Antoine Wright are out of the league and why Reggie Evans only gets lot of minutes on bad teams.

                      tbihis wrote: View Post
                      i agree with this. and youre right, leaving anybody open in the NBA is pretty much a sure 2 pts, but the thing is, youre making out Bargnani as a statue-defender, when he sees a player hit the lane, he doesnt just stand there, he tries to challenge but he just isnt an instinct defender. same with any other player on the offensive end, give them an open shot, they will take but doesnt mean theyll make it, well unless its steph curry or reggie miller, with bargs on defense, he'll try to wave his hands to put a body but the other player still scores because he just isnt a brilliant defender. but on the bright side, he still can distract shots and is a wide body in the lane.
                      Bargnani doesn't just stand there, but he is often out of position, turns his back on the ball far too much, rotates too late or over rotates. In the majority of games against well coached teams, I've seen them purposely target Bargnani on offense. On a team as bad defensively as the Raptors, the fact that HE'S the one they consistently target tells you just how bad he is.

                      tbihis wrote: View Post
                      not sure about that, he's taken the same number of 3s year after year in his career, but just for arguements sake, if he didnt improve his 3pt shooting, do you think nobody else in the NBA wouldve still taken him? I think not. Some team wouldve still taken him BECAUSE of his defense despite his horrendous offense. Same with Bargs, despite his defensive lapses, he is still a good player, and his offense is what will keep him employed in the NBA.
                      See Antoine Wright. Great defender, horrible on the offensive end. Bruce Bowen bounced around the NBA and never played a big role on any good team until he started hitting the three. Would someone have signed him even if he never worked on his shot? Sure. But there's a big difference between being a scrub and being a starter on a contender.

                      I've never suggested that Bargnani was a bad player who didn't deserve to be in the league. He'll be employed in the NBA for years after his current contract expires, but that doesn't mean he'll ever be a rotation player on a contender.

                      tbihis wrote: View Post
                      Im just curious, and i really dont know the answer, but besides Rodman, who else is a candidate, or is already in the HOF that is not, a double-digit scorer? I just want to know if the Hall, which is the highest prestige a guy can be given for his career, does give honor to just defense
                      The Hall of Fame generally likes well rounded players, but there are guys in the hall like Wes Unseld and K.C. Jones are in despite averaging 10 ppg or less. Of course, that has nothing to do with our discussion because the majority of the players we are talking about, including Bargnani, will ever be in the Hall of Fame.

                      tbihis wrote: View Post
                      i do realize that. it has to be a balance of defense and offense, but, you just mentioned that very few players wo were not good defensively but great offensively who played a large role on a championship team, and if the raps get a championship then you will probably add bargs to the VERY few and then we'll all be very happy.
                      Nothing is impossible. It's not impossible to field a team of players under 6'0 and win a Championship, but it's hard enough to win a Championship, so why make it that much harder.

                      The smart thing, would be to try and see what other Championship teams have done in the past and try and replicate that because there are probably keys to winning.
                      Read my blog, The Picket Fence. Guaranteed to make you think or your money back!
                      Follow me on Twitter.

                      Comment


                      • re:

                        Tim W. wrote: View Post
                        Also, I assume you didn't mean anything by it, but putting what I said in quotes was enough to tell people I wrote that. By including "sic" it seems like a shot at me for making what was basically a typo. It's as if you want to highlight my error, which I don't appreciate. For the most part, my posts are pretty grammatically correct, but I'm human and type quickly. Mistakes happen.
                        Yeah my bad, that was childish. Cheers.

                        Comment


                        • Tim W. wrote: View Post
                          He admitted that trading for O'Neal was a mistake, although I don't think it was as much a mistake as a gamble that didn't pay off. I also recall him admitting that signing Turkoglu was a mistake because he didn't fit in with the team. He heaped plenty of blame on Turkoglu, and rightfully so, but I'm pretty sure I remember him admitting that signing him was probably a mistake.

                          Besides, it doesn't really matter what he admits to the press. I think far too much is written about what coaches, GMs and players say. It's why, for the most part, I don't pay attention to that. What matter is what they do, and Colangelo has consistently tried to rectify his mistakes.
                          you say it doesnt matter and you dont pay attention to this stuff cuz it doesnt matter yet you remember something from 3 years ago.

                          if you remember around the time that BC traded J.O., it was around the same time that bargnani was having his breakout year (offensively) and I clearly remember BC saying that trading J.O. was because of the emergence of andrea... and that it made more sense to start andrea and go in the direction of acquiring marion who was more athletic...

                          i remember this clearly because i also being upset because i had also heard bargs in a previous interview that season saying how much help J.O. has been to him, and thought it mite be worth to just keep jermaine to kind of mentor bargs.

                          i dont remember him ever even hinting that he made a mistake...

                          point 2 is tim you sound like someone who has played basketball or at least watched a lot of basketball, and i hope you agree that in basketball you cant have 5 weak team defenders playing at the same time... since bargs has been a starter he's had to help defend everyone on the court ON TOP of his man, because jose's cant stay in front of his anyone... DD in his rookie year was below average, turk was horrible, and bosh is one of the weakest big men in the league...

                          there's no other team that has weak defense at EVERY POSITION. i cant think of any young centre that has had to put up with that for such a long time...

                          if you've played basketball, and have ever had to defend the paint, you know that when some of your team mates arent horrible defensively, you can atleast not look over to that side of the court, because you have confidence in them... Who should bargs have confidence in ? poor guy probably has to look all around and get his neck twisted from so many vulnerabilities because no one else can hold it down...

                          you also said it made no sense to trade bosh in 2010, well here is another thing that most people who watch basketball know... it takes ATLEAST 2 years for teams without multiple all-stars to gel... example: ATL even with horford, josh smith, joe johnson, it took them close to 5 years before they were even decent.

                          OKC - even with durant and westbrook, how many seasons did it take them before they locked up the 8th seed in the west ?

                          in the summer before BC"s all star PF is about to become an UNRESTRICTED FA, BC brings in NINE 9 NINE new faces, and A ROOKIE COACH and thinks this will all just magically come together and we will be competitive.

                          there's no simple formula on how to build a competitive team, but on which planet does a team with calderon, DD, turk, bosh, and AB win anything ?

                          name one good team that has 5 below average defenders starting ?

                          finally you stated how BC has been good at rectifying his mistakes... first of all its very hard to rectify a mistake in sports because you have such a high oppurtunity cost that you have to pay when a mistake is made whether its losing potential draft picks, having to take on players you dont need, or not giving your young players time to play.

                          in what other profession can a person make mistake after mistake after mistake and still be considered good at their job ?

                          what if you had a business and year after year your accountant cost you hundreds of thousands of dollars, but then was able to recuperate half his losses every time ? would you still keep him ?

                          what if your doctor had prescribed you the wrong medicine and you had an allergic reaction and developed a chronic problem, and then your doctor gives you more medication to help treat the problem he caused ?

                          you also say thats its very unlikely for bargnani to learn to play defense or become a better defender, well what tells you that BC will be able to get the raps in contention ? he has no history of doing... the stats are ridiculously in favor of teams that have good defense win championships... but i dont think BC understands this.

                          i just cant comprehend why anyone would have faith in this man.
                          Last edited by karim_nasir; Mon Jan 31, 2011, 07:03 PM.

                          Comment


                          • You could be right about what Colangelo said about trading O'Neal. I don't remember, but like I said, I don't really care. It doesn't matter what someone says. It matters what they do.

                            And I've certainly not been on board with a lot of Colangelo's moves, and I would have done a lot of things differently, but just because I disagree with someone, doesn't mean I don't respect what they have done.

                            I've never felt that Bargnani was someone the team should draft, let alone keep. One of my bones of contention with Colangelo is investing so much to develop a player who is so one dimensional. Of course you can't say Bargnani was a bad pick because he's arguably one of the top five players from that draft.

                            I never liked signing Kapono, another one dimensional player.

                            I thought he should have held only O'Neal and try and either trade him that summer or before the next deadline, as an expiring contract at a time when expiring contracts were actually worth something (unlike this season). Of course that has nothing to do with him playing beside Bargnani. Keeping O'Neal would have meant continuing to play Bargnani at the 3, which was a bad thing. Bargnani performed best when playing center, and if O'Neal was on the team, that would have been difficult.

                            I didn't necessarily agree with, but completely understood him trading for Jermaine O'Neal. After the Raptors got spanked by Orlando in the playoffs, Bargnani looked lost and far too unready to start, and Nesterovic was becoming too old to be effective. I wanted to see if Denver would have traded Nene for Ford+, but apparently Denver had no interest in Ford at the time.

                            I didn't particularly like, but understood the signing of Turkoglu. My first choice, and apparently Colangelo's- Trevor Ariza- turned down a bigger deal to sign with Houston, and there was little else on the market. If Colangelo wanted ANY chance of re-signing Bosh, he needed to do something. Turkoglu was a necessary evil that simply didn't work out.

                            Of course, I did really like HOW he signed Turkoglu, getting back Belinelli and Wright the way he did.

                            I liked him signing Jarret Jack, even if it didn't work out all that well.

                            I loved how he turned Carlos Delfino signing with another team into Amir Johnson (a player better than Delfino) and Sonny Weems.

                            I really liked his pick of DeMar DeRozan and was thrilled about him picking Ed Davis.

                            I loved Colangelo trading Villaneuva away and thought getting Ford was a great deal.

                            I thought trading for Bayless was a positive move and getting a 2nd round and Ajinca out of Dallas was good.

                            Being able to move Turkoglu for a productive player with a decent contract after the year he had was far more than I would have hoped.

                            I actually thought the signing of Kleiza was pretty good at the time, but of course I thought he would perform better and become another asset for the team.

                            On the other hand, I didn't like him signing Anthony Parker and Garbajosa with the cap space they had that summer, but it ended up being a great signing that helped the team win the Atlantic and changed the atmosphere of the team.

                            There are more, but you get the point. Colangelo hasn't done a great job, but he has done enough right that I would like to see how he reacts to the situation he's in now. Not using the TPE on an overpriced veteran that will win a few more games has been HUGE. Outside of Bargnani, I'm fine with the roster the Raptors have.
                            Read my blog, The Picket Fence. Guaranteed to make you think or your money back!
                            Follow me on Twitter.

                            Comment


                            • Let me get this straight. Bargs only seem like a terrible defender/help defender because he has to help too much and is always caught in noman's land? I assume this argument also works for rebounding -- Bargs only seem like a bad rebounder because he's trying to box out 4 people -- amirite?

                              How can you hate BC and love Bargs when BC was the one who drafted Bargs and is giving him all this leeway?

                              For the record I'm not a fan of BC either, I'm also not a fan of Bargs. I assumed that was everyones natural thought process.

                              Comment


                              • Krix wrote: View Post
                                Let me get this straight. Bargs only seem like a terrible defender/help defender because he has to help too much and is always caught in noman's land? I assume this argument also works for rebounding -- Bargs only seem like a bad rebounder because he's trying to box out 4 people -- amirite?

                                How can you hate BC and love Bargs when BC was the one who drafted Bargs and is giving him all this leeway?

                                For the record I'm not a fan of BC either, I'm also not a fan of Bargs. I assumed that was everyones natural thought process.
                                no i actually try to be objective, and as you have noticed i didnt defend bargnani's horrible rebounding ability at all... in fact i think earlier in the thread i mentioned the only thing unique about bargs is that he is a 7 footer who cant rebound...

                                if you have played basketball (or any sport) you know how annoying and damn rite frustrating it is when people dont do their job, and you are left hung out to dry... im not saying this is totally how barg's feels, but i kind of give him some slack, as it is a bit unfair to have to help defend on never be able to count on any of your team mates to stay in front of their man...

                                how nice is for perkins to know that hey he doesnt HAVE TO constantly inch closer and closer to the perimeter or constantly box out and look over his shoulder in any of his team mates direction because he has no faith in pierce or rondo being able to stay in front of their man, or to atleast prevent guys from cutting to the rim...

                                Comment

                                Working...
                                X