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  • A trade is more beneficial immediately-- there are no significant free agents worth it this year (maybe next?).

    If you consider the lack of bench talent, the fastest way to sure it up would involve moving Andrea. However, if the end goal is a full rebuild then amnestying Bargnani allows the Raps to start that process in a year, rather than 2.

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    • Apollo wrote: View Post
      I want to clarify something. If the Raptors pick up all team options in 2014/15, their cap number will actually be $50M that year, not $37M. Those options are JV, Ross and Johnson.

      The amnesty clause make sense depending on the game plan. Personally I'd prefer him traded for a guy with a couple years left on contract who can help the team.
      Carlos Boozer fits perfectly in this mold, especially because he addresses some of our issues such as lack of inside scoring, rebounding, toughness, and leadership.
      Twitter: @ReubenJRD • NBA, Raptors writer for Daily Hive Vancouver, Toronto.

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      • ReubenJRD wrote: View Post
        Carlos Boozer fits perfectly in this mold, especially because he addresses some of our issues such as lack of inside scoring, rebounding, toughness, and leadership.
        Did you watch the Bulls in the playoffs? And if you did, do you really think that the Bulls are moving Boozer for Andrea? WE think Andrea is soft. Bargnani isn't tough enough to sit on the Chicago bench in street clothes. These playoffs completely changed the style of the Bulls. They may like Andrea, but he is no longer a fit there.

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        • blackjitsu wrote: View Post
          Did you watch the Bulls in the playoffs? And if you did, do you really think that the Bulls are moving Boozer for Andrea? WE think Andrea is soft. Bargnani isn't tough enough to sit on the Chicago bench in street clothes. These playoffs completely changed the style of the Bulls. They may like Andrea, but he is no longer a fit there.
          Yeah I can't help but feel that the Bargnani-for-Boozer swap is off the table after how the end of the regular season and playoffs played out. Bargnani's value has sunk even lower somehow. Boozer's contract is still ugly but can the Bulls justify moving him for the corpse of Andrea just to save a few bucks? They are fresh off an inspiring playoff run and I think they'll decide to run it back at least one more year with a healthy D Rose.

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          • Fully wrote: View Post
            Yeah I can't help but feel that the Bargnani-for-Boozer swap is off the table after how the end of the regular season and playoffs played out. Bargnani's value has sunk even lower somehow. Boozer's contract is still ugly but can the Bulls justify moving him for the corpse of Andrea just to save a few bucks? They are fresh off an inspiring playoff run and I think they'll decide to run it back at least one more year with a healthy D Rose.
            I think Boozer will still be on the table. Looking at www.shamsports.com, the Bulls appear to be about $4M over the cap this year. They have never once ever paid luxury tax before.

            Without any options picked up for next year, they already have a payroll of $77.9M and even if the luxury tax goes up to $5M, they would be above the cap. So they could be hit with the repeater tax.

            The Bulls have the amnesty clause at their disposal but I'm not sure if they would be willing to just amnesty Boozer without getting any kind of asset for him (one can argue that Bargnani is not an asset, but others may feel differently in the league). Outside of Boozer who can they amnesty that would get them below the luxury tax and still have a competitive team? I believe their only amnesty candidates are Noah, Boozer, Deng, and Korver, and I don't think the Bulls would be willing to amnesty any one of those other guys.

            I do think if the next Toronto GM pursued this deal it would be done. But I'm not sure if the Toronto brass would want Boozer on the team, as then they'd be dipping into luxury tax, and is that worth it for a team just scrambling to make it into the playoffs?

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            • Great thread.

              I voted 'keep'.

              Barg's trade value is at an all time low right now. The solution is to bring him off the bench and play him 15-20 minutes per night against bigs that he can defend 1 on 1 and when he presents match-up problems for the other team. When Bargs is on the floor the rule must be "NEVER DOUBLE TEAM AND GO UNDER ALL SCREENS" so he never has to rotate and he rarely has to help. This defensive philosophy might work against some 2nd units.

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              • The logical choice for the amnesty clause is Kleiza. Unless management knows for a fact that they can't get back anything of value, they should not amnesty Bargnani for nothing.

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                • "All roads lead to Rome"

                  ReubenJRD wrote: View Post
                  Carlos Boozer fits perfectly in this mold, especially because he addresses some of our issues such as lack of inside scoring, rebounding, toughness, and leadership.
                  He's never seemed all that tough when guarding the interior paint. If anything he plays soft defense. You know what, he would fit in fine.

                  All kidding aside, Boozer would be an upgrade but there isn't much future there. Cutting Bargnani now or trading for Boozer will lead to the same end result in a couple years. Until we get there it will be an easier product to swallow though.

                  If the Bulls did this trade it would be because they see something long term in Bargnani that we don't...

                  Michel G wrote: View Post
                  The logical choice for the amnesty clause is Kleiza. Unless management knows for a fact that they can't get back anything of value, they should not amnesty Bargnani for nothing.
                  Maybe. The Raptors will still pay him regardless. He's only owed $4.6M in an expiring year. It might be worth more to them to sit him down if they have no use, wait until the trade deadline and then market his $4.6M as an expiring contract to teams looking for added flexibility for the 2014 FA period. Who knows, maybe the Raptors go get back a pick or some young prospects if they tossed in some cash as well. They won't be players next year in FA; Bargnani's $12M, Derozan's $9.5M and Landry's $8.5M have seen to that.

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                  • planetmars wrote: View Post
                    I think Boozer will still be on the table. Looking at www.shamsports.com, the Bulls appear to be about $4M over the cap this year. They have never once ever paid luxury tax before.

                    Without any options picked up for next year, they already have a payroll of $77.9M and even if the luxury tax goes up to $5M, they would be above the cap. So they could be hit with the repeater tax.

                    The Bulls have the amnesty clause at their disposal but I'm not sure if they would be willing to just amnesty Boozer without getting any kind of asset for him (one can argue that Bargnani is not an asset, but others may feel differently in the league). Outside of Boozer who can they amnesty that would get them below the luxury tax and still have a competitive team? I believe their only amnesty candidates are Noah, Boozer, Deng, and Korver, and I don't think the Bulls would be willing to amnesty any one of those other guys.

                    I do think if the next Toronto GM pursued this deal it would be done. But I'm not sure if the Toronto brass would want Boozer on the team, as then they'd be dipping into luxury tax, and is that worth it for a team just scrambling to make it into the playoffs?
                    Hoopshype has different numbers with Rip Hamilton on a team option for next year. http://hoopshype.com/salaries/chicago.htm

                    Maybe they still move Boozer, but the idea he is replaced by a soft player when the Bulls have developed a harder edge now doesn't fit.

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                    • Those in favor of not being caught empty handed

                      Between "trade him now" and "trade him later", it's almost a dead heat.

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                      • blackjitsu wrote: View Post
                        Hoopshype has different numbers with Rip Hamilton on a team option for next year. http://hoopshype.com/salaries/chicago.htm

                        Maybe they still move Boozer, but the idea he is replaced by a soft player when the Bulls have developed a harder edge now doesn't fit.
                        My understanding is team option with $1m guaranteed.

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                        • I merged two threads due to redundancy.

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                          • Starting points

                            If they trade him, here are a couple starting points to build around in a trade:

                            Toronto/Charlotte
                            Bargnani for Thomas and Haywood

                            Toronto/Detroit
                            Bargnani for Charlie V and Kravtsov

                            Toronto/Washington
                            Bargnani & Gray for Okafor

                            Toronto/Minnesota
                            Bargnani for Kirilenko

                            I purposely targeted lotto teams. They're probably more willing to roll the dice on Bargnani rebounding (both figuratively and literally).

                            If they could land a guy like Okafor or AK47(assuming he picks up the option) that would be a good short term upgrade. Neither guy fits perfectly with what they currently have but neither does Bargnani. At least these two guys offer up help to deficiencies.

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                            • Apollo wrote: View Post
                              All kidding aside, Boozer would be an upgrade but there isn't much future there. Cutting Bargnani now or trading for Boozer will lead to the same end result in a couple years. Until we get there it will be an easier product to swallow though.

                              If the Bulls did this trade it would be because they see something long term in Bargnani that we don't...
                              Considering the team's roster build and the contracts of the players, the future is the eventual expiring contract in 2015/2016 (correct me if mistaken) when the other guys like Fields, Gay, etc. eventually expire. That's about $43 million off the books with just those 3 expiring.
                              Twitter: @ReubenJRD • NBA, Raptors writer for Daily Hive Vancouver, Toronto.

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                              • ReubenJRD wrote: View Post
                                Considering the team's roster build and the contracts of the players, the future is the eventual expiring contract in 2015/2016 (correct me if mistaken) when the other guys like Fields, Gay, etc. eventually expire. That's about $43 million off the books with just those 3 expiring.
                                To elaborate, when the likely peak of this team comes around in 2015/2016, this team will be able to evaluate whether or not Gay, and co. is deserving to be re-signed, and if this team has had any continuity and success when that time comes around. So, either this team goes into a full rebuild with hopefully a lottery pick, major financial cap flexibility, and young assets/players on the roster i.e. Acy, Valanciunas, Ross.
                                Twitter: @ReubenJRD • NBA, Raptors writer for Daily Hive Vancouver, Toronto.

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