Everything Bargnani

[Brandon]

Lets put it another way - after all the 2006 draft re-do's people wanted... Would you trade Bargs right now for Brandon Roy?

I would not. Unfortunately, Roy's best days are far behind him. He has no cartilage in either knee. The only player from that rotten draft I'd trade Bargs for is Rondo, and he isn't without flaws either.

[Multipaul]

It wasn't just Bargnani who looked like he got the energy sucked out of him. The team as a whole looked pathetic.
MLSE won't shell out extra money for another coach. We're still paying for Mitchell. Why fire Trino and still have him on the payroll?If a coaching move is gonna be made, it'll be after the season.

Slide Carlesimo over half way through the season. Ask Jay to stay as part of management/staff, or some other token job.

[MangoKid]

Slide Carlesimo over half way through the season. Ask Jay to stay as part of management/staff, or some other token job.

If you get canned from a top position, would you accept a demotion? I know I wouldn't.
The point is that this team is low on talent right now, and a coaching change doesn't alter things exactly.

[Tim W.]

Look at where Amir is.

Amir had run out to close out on the shooter, I believe, causing him to miss the shot that Cousins rebounded. Amir did absolutely nothing wrong on that play. Not that he never does anything wrong, but his place was right where he was.

[MangoKid]

Amir had run out to close out on the shooter, I believe, causing him to miss the shot that Cousins rebounded. Amir did absolutely nothing wrong on that play. Not that he never does anything wrong, but his place was right where he was.

It really should have been Kleiza where Amir is and Amir where Kleiza is (if it were indeed a switch off, which is could have been, then you're right, Amir's in the right place). If Bargnani was in that position however, he would be even more roasted.

[yertu damkule]

We're still paying for Mitchell.

nope.

FWIW, triano is one of the lower-paid HC's in the L. eating his salary isn't (or shouldn't be) an issue for money-grubbing MLSE. it wouldn't be for an owner/GM with their priorities in order.

[Orange Julius]

Eric Smith / Bargnani

In grade 9 science, I learned the difference between kinetic and potential energy. Kinetic is simple, it's energy as a result of motion. Potential energy is a little bit more esoteric. Like a boulder on top of a hill, potential energy is great but it is exactly just that, a boulder on top of a hill. Bargs is just another guy with potential. I'm waiting for the day when his body starts to not cooperate and he ends up missing more time due to injuries. This way, he'll be the next Mehmet Okur.

PS> Eric Smith wants to say more but his employers won't be happy with his comments. I'm sure that Jerry Sloane would trade for him in the hopes of turning him around due to his potential. However, if he continues like this, his ass will be glued to the bench while the likes of Millsap will become All Stars. Let's face the fact that Bargs is destroying this franchise. Mitchell was right all along and got canned for it. Too bad, that's all the defensive gritty stuff that this team really needed. How much is Jersey giving up in points these days?

Um, yeah, Bargnani is "just another guy with potential". Thats what I'm saying. Not sure why you needed to prove you took grade 9 science to agree with me but but whatever. Furthermore, I'd be happy if his ceiling were Okur, but its not, its much lower if he stays in Toronto.

Regardless of whether Eric Smith wants to say more or not he is payed by MLSE. As a 'journalist' when you take money from the entity that you cover, your integrity is compromised.

[ebrian]

It's a trick. He didn't say NBA GMs. 29 GMs could mean anything. Who knows if he even means General Managers? I mean we're talking about Andrea Bargnani, right? One of the worst starting centers in the history of the NBA. Maybe he was talking about General Motors, and Andrea being a good salesperson.

I think Arsenalist should clarify if he meant NBA GMs.. otherwise I'm not sure I can take Eric Smith seriously ever again.

[Trife76]

Yeah, Bargs sucked last night, honestly that type of lax play is disgusting. BUT, he was not the only one. The team was 100% lackadaisical and furthermore were victimized by Triano's RIDICULOUS lineups. I turned it on in the 2nd and it was like, Weems, Derozan, Anderson, Calderon, and Wright and they were getting hammered other than Weems. Furthermore, they take Weems off to end the game! Triano ...say bye bye

typical bargnani deflection..."but but but the whole team sucked"

bargs is expected to be the go to guy now,the leader...thats WHY the finger is pointed at him when he has 12 and 2 game and looks like a POS on both ends....Stop deflecting criticism thats well deserved onto David Anderson and Julian Wright..they are 12th men after thoughts....

Our feature player sucks a big one and its a problem....

[Bendit]

There would be a ton of interest in Bargnani. Bargnani is a very good player. You're talking about a 7 footer who can run and put the ball on teh floor plus stretch the defense with his shooting. He just hasn't gotten it defensively. Problem is taht teams would try to low ball you. If he goes elsewhere as a supporting player and flourishes, then Colangelo looks foolish.

I agree with you on all points with the caveat that he will flourish on a good-v. good team if used properly (right now on as a rotation player). He is not enough of an asset imo on a team like the Raps. It is up to BC not to "give him away". Again, the negatives being mentioned by posters are his defensive deficiencies. It is when he has problems with offense (his strong suit) as last night that everything gets exacerbated because he cannot make himself useful in other areas. I was also a supporter of AB to give him time because of exactly the attributes you laid out and that he had to be "culturally" in tune with the NBA in all matters including the defensive level of play. I am just concerned the longer we wait the lower the return will be. I agree his off. qualities are still alluring to some gms who believe they can turn him around.

[EaseMyPain]

Toronto always craps on it's best players!

Stop it, Toronto! The only way to build a team is through bottom dwelling awhile so that "upside" guys can become capable rotation guys. We do not have any of those guys yet, aside from our point guards and Bargnani. So, we crap on them. Our points are rotation guys, just not front of the rotation guys. Bargs is our only guy who is. At times, when he is hitting his shot, he is unstoppable. Simply Dirk! Other times, he is simply not. His on the ball defence is pretty good, his rotations, or lack of, make you shake your head.

He is not a franchise cornerstone. He is not as good as Bosh was. Bosh was not good enough on his own either.

Let him be who he is and stop asking for him to be more. He has improved much on his post play and inside game. He has really let his perimeter game decline. If he becomes a 45% 3 point line shooter, he is an easy all-star and elite offensive player. He needs to take his shooting to a new level and stop being entrusted, or responsible for, doing things that he does not do well!
We need a big rebounding 3, and a big monster 4/5. If Kleisa picks it up, especially his post game, and we get a guy who can rebound like Reggie but defend and score on a low post iso, then Bargs becomes one of the best big men in the game. He needs to be a better shooter first. Bring back that shooting coach!

[Multipaul]

typical bargnani deflection..."but but but the whole team sucked"

bargs is expected to be the go to guy now,the leader...thats WHY the finger is pointed at him when he has 12 and 2 game and looks like a POS on both ends....Stop deflecting criticism thats well deserved onto David Anderson and Julian Wright..they are 12th men after thoughts....

Our feature player sucks a big one and its a problem....

Not deflecting criticism on Bargs, he totally sucked last night. Do i think he is our "feature guy", i dunno. Seems like Demar gets just as much opportunity. But yeah, he was terrible last night...but my point is valid...everyone was crap with exception to Weems. Bargs last night was definitely not "the guy".

[sunndog]

I think it all comes down to two things: the point and coaching.
We've all agreed that when Bosh was in town, AB couldn't play his game. Now that he's the number one option on offense, he isn't getting the looks he needs. I'm amazed no one has mentioned the game last night in this thread. I lost count of how many times Bargs was wide open in his hot zones, and just didn't get a touch. Instead Jack was driving the ball into the base line and getting lost in the Wizards' big men. This is unacceptable. The Raptors committed to the guy by giving him an extension. They need to make sure that his potential is being maximized by making sure that he's in a position to succeed. In games this season when the team gets him going early, they're always there at the end. When they look away from him, like they did last night, they get blown out.
This leads me to the second point which is coaching. Bargs has a TON of passion. He's shown it on the court. In that same vein he does have a lot of skill. There aren't many centers in the league who can keep up with him when he's on top of his game. Triano needs to get his head out of his ass and figure out a single consistent offensive scheme. Granted it adjusts depending on the opponent, but he needs to commit to getting the ball into the hands of the players who need it: Bargnani, DeRozan and Weems in the starting unit and Amir in the second. If you're committing to the development of this team you need to make sure that you're giving the opportunity to do so. I have not been impressed with Jack this season, who seems to be going for his own far too often. People will argue that he's the Raps only option of the dribble and that he's the team leader blah blah blah, but I think we need to see him acting as a distributor primarily. Triano needs to emphasize that this is his role, and if he can't adjust we need to move him for someone who can. In terms of Bargs' fire, that needs to come from the coach as much as it needs to come from him. I don't think Doc Rivers is a good coach, but he's a coach who inspires his players, and Triano needs to do the same with guys like Bargnani. God I wish they would just move him back to the assistant role and promote PJ already.
There are zero expectations this season, the only expectation is that players get better. Development is about coaching, about teaching guys how to play in the NBA. Until AB plays for an NBA caliber coach and plays with a point who can get the ball, I maintain that the jury's still out.

[blackjitsu]

I would prefer we traded him. But I'm fine with him on the Raps. MY problem is the contract we signed him to. Am I right in feeling that we bid against ourselves? Yes "29 teams" may like what Bargs offer. They may be able to hide his weakness, be so far away from the playoffs that he would represent hope, maybe they have a coach that would light a fire under him. But what does he represent here?

1/ The way we use are players or because we lack the personnel we can't hide his weaknesses.
2/ We've seen too much of him to believe that we can invest our hopes in him.
3/ When we fired Smitch we dismissed the type of coach that fans would imagine would "light that fire".

I feel a basketball team should reflect its city. I personally would prefer a bruising, tough, "lunch-bucket" team. Bargs in no way reflects that. I suspect I'm not the only person who feels this way. If his contract was more sensible, trading to one of those "29 teams" that covet him would be less "egg on face" then it will be now. If we don't trade him this year-- the first year his play is fully exposed-- I doubt those "29 teams" will all be willing to grab him on his current contract. I'm okay with him here IF we can put the right personnel around him. But what team builds around a player (hiding his flaws) who is not their future franchise star?

[Apollo]

And what does this really mean?

Ok, so 29 teams would trade for him... But what would they be offering?