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  • Completely agree with Tim W. - the Raptors will never be successful with Bargnani as a centrepiece. He needs to play on a team with a defensively dominating big man... to hid Bargnani's weaknesses.

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    • But you are completely right when stating that Andrea is a one dimensional player. The NBA is all about versatility and how a player can affect the game in many different aspects. Scoring puts fans in the seats and sells tickets but doesn't win games. On the right team he can fit alongside players who can make up for his defensive weaknesses assuming they need scoring (CHA, NJ). Unfortunately for him, whether you play the 4 or the 5 you still need to help on rotations and Andrea is one of the worst players in the NBA playing help defense. He plays "Adam Morrison" like defense at the 5 and Adam is out of league despite his ability to average 14-18 ppg on a bad team like the Raptors yet Andrea has a 50 mill extension kicking in. But then again the Raptors are filled with "one dimensional" type guys who play big minutes.

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      • ibzilla wrote: View Post
        But you are completely right when stating that Andrea is a one dimensional player. The NBA is all about versatility and how a player can affect the game in many different aspects. Scoring puts fans in the seats and sells tickets but doesn't win games. On the right team he can fit alongside players who can make up for his defensive weaknesses assuming they need scoring (CHA, NJ). Unfortunately for him, whether you play the 4 or the 5 you still need to help on rotations and Andrea is one of the worst players in the NBA playing help defense. He plays "Adam Morrison" like defense at the 5 and Adam is out of league despite his ability to average 14-18 ppg on a bad team like the Raptors yet Andrea has a 50 mill extension kicking in. But then again the Raptors are filled with "one dimensional" type guys who play big minutes.
        I just read an article where MANY league scouts were stating that Carmelo is a One-Dimensional player...
        Wonder what they think of Bargs...

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        • black angus wrote: View Post
          Completely agree with Tim W. - the Raptors will never be successful with Bargnani as a centrepiece. He needs to play on a team with a defensively dominating big man... to hid Bargnani's weaknesses.
          I would be shocked if at this point anyone believes Bargnani is a centrepiece. He is a complimentary player. If the Raptors are going to have him as a part of the future, they need strong defensive players at pretty much all positions to make up for his 'defeciencies'. The trade deadline and draft are going to be extremely important for the Raptors moving forward - obvious guy says. They need to come up big.

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          • I don't think the Raps are trying to make him a centrepiece, nor has he proclaimed to be. Unfortunately, he is our only pretty much consistent offensive weapon other than barbo and caldy. Need DD to step up.

            As is, if Bargs remains with us for his whole contract, and possibly beyond, he is, and will continue to be the greatest offensive player ever on the Raptors.

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            • joey_hesketh wrote: View Post
              I just read an article where MANY league scouts were stating that Carmelo is a One-Dimensional player...
              Wonder what they think of Bargs...
              I think Anthony IS a one-dimensional player, and have been saying that for years. He's certainly not the elite player that he is often painted as being. I see him as an good supporting player, but you're never going to win with him as your best player. I thought him going to Chicago made a lot of sense because they already had Rose. New Jersey giving up the farm to get him makes little sense to me. While's he's been in Denver, the only time they made it past the first round was when they traded for a still top-of-his-game Chauncey Billups. And New York apparently is willing to give of both Gallo and Fields for him. I don't understand that.
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              • Matt52 wrote: View Post
                I would be shocked if at this point anyone believes Bargnani is a centrepiece. He is a complimentary player. If the Raptors are going to have him as a part of the future, they need strong defensive players at pretty much all positions to make up for his 'defeciencies'. The trade deadline and draft are going to be extremely important for the Raptors moving forward - obvious guy says. They need to come up big.
                Bargnani would be very difficult to trade this year because the Raptors are over the Cap and Bargnani's is a BYC player for trade purposes. I don't know of any other players in the league not on rookie contracts who are playing as well as he is when you base it on his trade value; i.e. his BYC. amount.
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                • Buddahfan wrote: View Post
                  Bargnani would be very difficult to trade this year because the Raptors are over the Cap and Bargnani's is a BYC player for trade purposes. I don't know of any other players in the league not on rookie contracts who are playing as well as he is when you base it on his trade value; i.e. his BYC. amount.
                  Where did I mention trading Bargnani?

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                  • vs Spurs

                    Bargs 29 pts, 2 rebs
                    DD- 12 pts, 6 rbs
                    Jose- 8pts, 18 assists
                    Johnson- foul foul foul foul
                    Davis- 13 and 16 boards
                    Raps lose by 17

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                    • Matt52 wrote: View Post
                      I would be shocked if at this point anyone believes Bargnani is a centrepiece. He is a complimentary player. If the Raptors are going to have him as a part of the future, they need strong defensive players at pretty much all positions to make up for his 'defeciencies'. The trade deadline and draft are going to be extremely important for the Raptors moving forward - obvious guy says. They need to come up big.
                      The problem with Bargnani is that he's obviously not good enough to be the centrepiece, but you basically have to build the entire team to cover up his weaknesses. To me, that's like saying a woman isn't your girlfriend, you're just spending time with her, sleeping with her and you aren't allowed to see other women. You can call it what you want, but it's still the same thing. You don't build around complimentary players, otherwise they are not complimentary players.

                      The question is, is Bargnani's scoring so great that you make him an untouchable piece of the future of the franchise? Well, he's not really an efficient scorer, needs a lot of shots to be valuable, goes through far too many stretches where he's completely invisible on offense and obviously isn't helping on the other end). To me, the answer is pretty obvious.
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                      • Buddahfan wrote: View Post
                        Bargnani would be very difficult to trade this year because the Raptors are over the Cap and Bargnani's is a BYC player for trade purposes. I don't know of any other players in the league not on rookie contracts who are playing as well as he is when you base it on his trade value; i.e. his BYC. amount.
                        I don't think you try and trade him this season. You wait until the summer, when he won't be a BYC player. Without knowing who the Raptors are going to get in the draft, you're guessing about what you'll need. Even my Bargnani-for-Rubio+ trade wouldn't make much sense right now for either team. If the Raptors get the first pick and Irving comes out, he's obviously the guy you have to take, so Rubio wouldn't make much sense. Conversely, if Minnesota gets the first pick and takes Irving, then Rubio is a luxury they simply don't need.
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                        • Bargani's showed flashes of greatness this season, but his biggest problem is consistency - he drops a career high against the Knicks @ MSG and then the next game dissapears - if he can bring his A game on a day to day basis, he could become a solid all-star in this league - until then, just another 3 point shooting big on a struggling team
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                          • Tim W. wrote: View Post
                            The problem with Bargnani is that he's obviously not good enough to be the centrepiece, but you basically have to build the entire team to cover up his weaknesses. To me, that's like saying a woman isn't your girlfriend, you're just spending time with her, sleeping with her and you aren't allowed to see other women. You can call it what you want, but it's still the same thing. You don't build around complimentary players, otherwise they are not complimentary players.

                            The question is, is Bargnani's scoring so great that you make him an untouchable piece of the future of the franchise? Well, he's not really an efficient scorer, needs a lot of shots to be valuable, goes through far too many stretches where he's completely invisible on offense and obviously isn't helping on the other end). To me, the answer is pretty obvious.
                            Good analogy. I would not be shopping Bargnani hwoever if an offer came along that blew me away, take it. I think Davis and Bargnani are a good compliment - Davis needs a season or two of experience and more lean muscle.

                            IMO a centrepiece is going to be a great two way player anyways. They need solid defenders at PG and SF to go with Davis. There is still hope for DD and unforutnately none for Bargnani.

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                            • huskies2raps wrote: View Post
                              Bargani's showed flashes of greatness this season, but his biggest problem is consistency - he drops a career high against the Knicks @ MSG and then the next game dissapears - if he can bring his A game on a day to day basis, he could become a solid all-star in this league - until then, just another 3 point shooting big on a struggling team
                              "Another 3 pt shooting big on a struggling team"

                              Wow, just another generic uninformed post with no basis on a struggling post.

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                              • Matt52 wrote: View Post
                                Good analogy. I would not be shopping Bargnani hwoever if an offer came along that blew me away, take it. I think Davis and Bargnani are a good compliment - Davis needs a season or two of experience and more lean muscle.

                                IMO a centrepiece is going to be a great two way player anyways. They need solid defenders at PG and SF to go with Davis. There is still hope for DD and unforutnately none for Bargnani.
                                DD's defense has cost us many games. It is worse than Bargs. How can you say "there is still hope for DD" on defense? Where does this hope come from? Perhaps this book?:

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