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  • Nine New Faces wrote: View Post
    Effective. Very effective.

    Does someone not like it getting thrown back at them when they call others 'nerds' or 'Frankie Flowers' when they argue using stats?
    oh wait, you're this guy.

    Nine New Faces wrote: View Post
    Amir KILLS Bargs in adjusted plus/minus, which is exactly the stat Winston covets.
    the guy this thread disproves.

    Comment


    • Tim W- you have previously espoused Wayne's mathematic principles, yet now, you shoot them down.

      is it because you can't stand the truth of his findings?

      Comment


      • Apollo wrote: View Post
        Say Multipaul. You know T-Mac was painted with the same brush by the media? You know, him scoring all those points and his teams always underachieving? That article you're linking in supports your belief but... You seem to be attempting to build a house on a foundation of jello. Ball doesn't lie but people with too much time on their hands can come up with blog postings presenting a view supported on numbers but that view doesn't always mirror reality.
        I find it incredibly ironic that the system that Multipaul seems to completely believe in shows that a player he seems to constantly bash (Amir) is actually about the same as the player he thinks is the best on the team. If Mathletics is a valid system, then Amir Johnson is on par with Andrea Bargnani.
        Read my blog, The Picket Fence. Guaranteed to make you think or your money back!
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        • Tim W. wrote: View Post
          I fail to see the point of the article, then. If he wrote the article to point out how flawed the system that came up with those results is, then I can understand. But I could easily think up some sort of flawed system of statistical analysis. It doesn't mean it's worthy of telling people.

          By writing the article, he's showing his system is completely flawed, but that doesn't seem to be the point of the article.
          ya... i see your point and got to agree... not so much that his system is flawed... his numbers are right and completely sound... but the context is kinda fucked.

          Comment


          • heinz57 wrote: View Post
            oh wait, you're this guy.

            the guy this thread disproves.

            Did you even read the list? Johnson places higher than Bargs.

            According to Winston's rankings on that list, the difference between Amir and Bargs is roughly the difference between Chris Paul and Jason terry.

            On top of that, I was referring to adjusted +/-, which is Winston's go-to stat. If you want to see the numbers, you can go here:

            http://basketballvalue.com/teamplaye...-2011&team=TOR

            Comment


            • Nine New Faces wrote: View Post
              Did you even read the list? Johnson places higher than Bargs.

              According to Winston's rankings on that list, the difference between Amir and Bargs is roughly the difference between Chris Paul and Jason terry.

              On top of that, I was referring to adjusted +/-, which is Winston's go-to stat. If you want to see the numbers, you can go here:

              http://basketballvalue.com/teamplaye...-2011&team=TOR
              oh ya... he KILLS bargs.

              Comment


              • Tim W. wrote: View Post
                I find it incredibly ironic that the system that Multipaul seems to completely believe in shows that a player he seems to constantly bash (Amir) is actually about the same as the player he thinks is the best on the team. If Mathletics is a valid system, then Amir Johnson is on par with Andrea Bargnani.
                They are both all stars for sure

                Comment


                • MangoKid wrote: View Post
                  Dude, you "hate" on Amir - that isn't a secret.
                  +1

                  Comment


                  • and seriously... come on... we're arguing that crappy player A is better than crappy player B by use of obscure stats that say landry fields should be an all-star.

                    silly.

                    Comment


                    • King Bargs, All Star, as per, Mathletics

                      Comment


                      • heinz57 wrote: View Post
                        and seriously... come on... we're arguing that crappy player A is better than crappy player B by use of obscure stats that say landry fields should be an all-star.

                        silly.
                        Dude Fields is awesome what da hell are u talkin about

                        Comment


                        • Forgot Bargnani's poor play/hatin' for a second. (And the fact it actually makes comparing Amir to Bargs far more "justifiable", so to speak.) You're telling me that Bargs, Brook Lopez, Crawford, Amir, Landry freaking Fields, Augustin, Harris, and Bogut all deserves to be an All-Star over the league's most defensively dominant player in Dwight Howard...? Really? Really?? And that there's nothing wrong with that all? Seriously?!?


                          You use stats combined with what you see, ffs, especially not catch-all stats like these.

                          Comment


                          • Nine New Faces wrote: View Post
                            Did you even read the list? Johnson places higher than Bargs.

                            According to Winston's rankings on that list, the difference between Amir and Bargs is roughly the difference between Chris Paul and Jason terry.

                            On top of that, I was referring to adjusted +/-, which is Winston's go-to stat. If you want to see the numbers, you can go here:

                            http://basketballvalue.com/teamplaye...-2011&team=TOR
                            I'm not sure you interpreted the list quite right...

                            -----pts offense defense impact
                            Amir 12 2 -10 18
                            Bargs 8 6 -2 22

                            So Amir does win out in some catergories, but I'm not sure that list was actually in Order. Dwayne Wade second last? It was in order of the 'Points' Catergory. So if you are arguing he was ranked higher in that, then fine.
                            But overall I'd say its a wash.


                            Not sure where you're getting this Chris Paul vs. Jason Terry.

                            Points Offense Defense Impact
                            Chris Paul 15 12 -3 50
                            Jason Terry 9 6 -3 41

                            You'll notice they are ONLY close in one catergory, where as everywhere else Chris Paul owns Terry.
                            Last edited by Joey; Tue Feb 1, 2011, 05:58 PM.

                            Comment


                            • Multipaul wrote: View Post
                              Apollo, you know Wayne Winston's credentials, his stats are bang on
                              So you think Bargnani deserves to be an all-star over D12 and Rondo should barely scrape in while Jamal Crawford starts?

                              Comment


                              • Apollo wrote: View Post
                                So you think Bargnani deserves to be an all-star over D12 and Rondo should barely scrape in while Jamal Crawford starts?
                                I agree with Hesketh that Winston doesn't list those guys in any kind of "order" of magnitude.

                                But Bargs should be an all star over D12 in my opinion.

                                Comment

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