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  • Great work again ezz_bee.


    *applauds*


    Good choices on the comparison players. A sense of humour always makes staring at numbers easier to read.
    And it has actually made me rethink (a bit) the idea of AB's worth.

    Who would you accept in a straight up trade for AB?

    Lamar Odom
    Tyson Chandler
    Nick Collison
    Nenê (Does he only have 1 name, like Madonna?)
    LaMarcus Aldridge
    Marcus Camby
    Emeka Okafor
    David West
    Anderson Varejao
    Andre Blatche
    Charlie Villanueva
    Joel Pryzbilla
    Mehmet Okur
    Eddy Curry
    Luis Scola
    Chris Kaman
    David Lee
    Andris Biendrins

    Not knowing all the players well, I would take Chandler, Kaman (maybe), Aldridge, Nene (maybe), Lee for sure. Would enjoy hearing who and why.
    “I have no idea who Chukwudiebere Maduabum is, but on his Draft Express profile, he’s listed as Chu Chu. I think he’s worthy of picking just for that. He immediately is in the running for best All-Time NBA name.” -Tim W.

    Comment


    • Is your formula showing that Ed Davis is a worse defender than Andrea? You had my curiosity piqued up to that point.
      At the PF position, that's what Davis' numbers show. As a Center his number is 24.17.

      The number appears to show that, as far as Man to Man defence is concerned (and that's the only thing this number shows), Andrea is a better on-ball defender at the 5 than Davis is at the 4. At the 5, Davis is better. Keep in mind though that Davis is a rookie and that his bread and butter on D is his help defence, which in no way factors into this.

      For those who are interested, Bargnani's number at the PF: 38.21. Keep in mind though the sample is extremely small.

      Comment


      • golden wrote: View Post
        Is your formula showing that Ed Davis is a worse defender than Andrea? You had my curiosity piqued up to that point.
        ya my formula goes something like this (7) * (5) = 35 > (32) * (1) = 32

        Analysis
        Ed's jersey number gives him a favorable variance of 4.6 times that of Bargnani's jersey number.
        Fortunatly Andrea has a 5 times more favorable skill level and thus edges out our man Ed.

        Comment


        • ya my formula goes something like this (7) * (5) = 35 > (32) * (1) = 32

          Analysis
          Ed's jersey number gives him a favorable variance of 4.6 times that of Bargnani's jersey number.
          Fortunatly Andrea has a 5 times more favorable skill level and thus edges out our man Ed.
          That's unjust.

          I'm only using 3 numbers: FG%, PPG, and PER.

          Two of those three are totally uncontroversial. Per 48 minutes of play, Ed Davis gets 26.4 points dropped on him. Bargnani? 22.6.

          Don't forget that in the early going Davis was getting lit up. And he hasn't played enough games for his improved play to balance out the numbers.

          Comment


          • In any case the single number is the least important piece of information in this thread, therefore there's significantly little need to get worked up about it.

            Comment


            • Balls of Steel wrote: View Post
              Are you upset that no one is loving your Rap Boyz in Weems and Bargnani? I'm still can't figure out your obsession with these two.
              No kidding. Mind boggling.
              mattscottnelson wrote: View Post
              Use Bargs to get a pick in the top 5. Grab a PG and a SF...
              Of course, if the Raps trade Bargnani, wouldn't it be better to grab a C with this new pick?
              Matt52 wrote: View Post
              We'll have to disagree on Bargnani development. Bargnani has played over 30mins per game for three years now with a green light the last 3 years as well. He has regressed defensively this year. You can't teach effort, unfortunately.In his rookie year he played over 25 mins per game. Ed has played 23.

              Ed has been routinely ignored or fifth option on O. He has made his name with hustle, D, and creating his own opportunities on O.

              In my opinion what you see is what you get with Bargnani whereas ED is still an unknown.
              Exactly what Bargnani's problem is.
              DunkinDerozan wrote: View Post
              Yea we'll have to disagree again. I think Bargnani has made big strides defensivly. His rebounds might not show it. But you have to look beyond the defensive numbers. Guarding your man, drawing charges etc.. His job isan't to rebound, but I beleive he can improve his rebounding if he puts his mind to it.
              Ed is not ignored he just has a very raw offensive game thats nobody's fault but his own. Sure he might improve but lets be real when he does he'll also have to face a different defensive animal.

              Yea with Bargnani what you see is what you get. A top 10 scorer (if need be) A center if need be who can guard almost any big in the league. (If need be)
              Better scenario: powerforward who is the teams secondary scorer and makes the game much easier for our primary star whoever that may be and everyone else.
              Seriously man? He doesn't put his mind to it, doesn't exert effort, stands flat footed constantly. His defense has not improved, it has gotten worse, and arguably he is a statue on the defensive end.
              DunkinDerozan wrote: View Post
              haha i just posted a similar comment in the other thread.

              I said this trade will happen in two sperate transaction

              Transacaton #1 Bargnani is trade to NY for a bunch of scraps (who rapotors fans will love)
              Transactions #2 Colangelo will be signed to a mulit year deal as preident and gm of NY

              Everyone will be happy

              Raptors fans because we get rid of Bargnani

              Knicks fans because they get a big three and become instant championship contenders for years to come

              And colangelo is happy because he finally gets to trade Bargnani, but only to leaverage his own contract hahaha

              and id be happy because all the haters would be left to wonder what if?
              Amare, Bargnani, Melo on one team? Billups will have a heart attack trying to guard 5 guys at once. It would be funny to watch the complete lack of defense and ball-hoggery.
              Balls of Steel wrote: View Post
              I think that Mr. DD is also forgetting that Bargs was already playing in Europe prior to being drafted while Ed suffered a hand injury while in college and a knee injury during summer league. I can see why he's not as enamoured as I am about Davis. Davis won't be an offensive juggernaut as AB7. However, even if his offensive game tails off in games, his defensive intensity / priorities never waivers. Yes, there are nights that his + / - isn't great but let's put into place how difficult it is to defend in this league as a 21 year-old (at his physical position at the for or sometimes the 5). If he adds some bulk and more experience of course, he can be the defensive anchor that this team needs. With that in mind, I don't even bother to entertain comparing the two. Davis has critical intangibles that he brings that Andrea will never have for the rest of his career as a ballplayer. More importantly, Davis' intangibles will be far more important than AB's lone scoring skills.
              And to your point, when Davis has a poor offensive showing, as ALL players do, he has his defense and hustle to fall back on to contribute to the team and the game. Bargnani on the other hand, and he has had bad offensive games, does not put in the effort on defense, does not hustle, and does not add in other ways to the team or game. This is a HUGE difference.

              Comment


              • I think its funny all you guys are getting worked up over an article written by Mitch Lawrence. Exactly. Id be more interested if one of the ESPN guys wrote about it, or even tweeted a single line, but this guy, pass. I cant even find his bio on the NY Daily website.

                What also is funny how everybody is saying "oh, Bargs will fit in the NY system", "they can form their own big 3", "bargs can spread the floor for amare and melo". now why would you want to better another team in the expense of your home team? Any of you guys think that maybe we can use Bargs to our advantage? I think we've all been in agreement that he is NOT a franchise player and should not be regarded as one, but IMO, he is still an offensive threat and probably good as a 3rd or even a 2nd option on any team.

                Im all for trading Bargs IF you can get another player in who can replace his scoring. Im not in favor of trading him if youre getting 2-3 pieces, with one good at one thing, and the other good at another thing. I think that Raps have gone through way too many of those trades.

                Establish the core, draft for need and use cap space to sign another good player. If you can use Bargs to come off the bench then why not?

                Comment


                • (Opponent's PER + Opponent's PPG) x Opponent's FG% (all numbers based on 48 minutes/pg)
                  Andrea will never be traded for his defensive skill... so: why here we are trying to show that he is not so good defender when tous-le-monde already know this?
                  As already mentioned by someone (can't remember who..) in this forum: if we are interested in trading Bargs the only option that we have - IMHO - is to sell him like a good 6th man for offensive purpose in a good team or no one would be interested in him.
                  otherwise he will remain in TO

                  what do you think?

                  ps: hope I was able to explain myself :P
                  Let's go Raptors!

                  Comment


                  • bloodyhandedgod wrote: View Post
                    Would enjoy hearing who and why.
                    Okafor for his D and low-post ability
                    Let's go Raptors!

                    Comment


                    • Amare, Melo and Bargs on the same team. Trade for Brooks Lopez and you could have the worst Defensive team in the history of the NBA. Someone would stick 200 points on them. lol
                      “I have no idea who Chukwudiebere Maduabum is, but on his Draft Express profile, he’s listed as Chu Chu. I think he’s worthy of picking just for that. He immediately is in the running for best All-Time NBA name.” -Tim W.

                      Comment


                      • teoserio wrote: View Post
                        Okafor for his D and low-post ability
                        Has he not always been a little undersized? I like his talent, not sure if he is big enough on a team that needs more size.
                        “I have no idea who Chukwudiebere Maduabum is, but on his Draft Express profile, he’s listed as Chu Chu. I think he’s worthy of picking just for that. He immediately is in the running for best All-Time NBA name.” -Tim W.

                        Comment


                        • teoserio wrote: View Post
                          Okafor for his D and low-post ability
                          In a heartbeat.

                          Comment


                          • Ignore rumors. Until something happens it's not real and just speculation from a source who's job is to speculate.

                            Anyone can speculate as changes must be made with a 50-60 loss team.

                            If as Raps GM I am willing to trade Bargnani (and any GM should be based on the role he currently has) I figure out where my draft spot is first. You can replace any scoring lost by trading Andrea with this pick. The draft pick makes up for any lost offensive punch as the problem is more creating shots (which is why Irving, Walker and to a lesser extent Barnes are attractive) than a player taking shots as Andrea is a volume shooter. He has a nice jumper but he doesn't score at a terribly efficient rate to worry about his scoring.
                            If it's top 3 pick Irving who would be ideal, Barnes or Williams (not as high on him as the other 2) compensate for any lost scoring. If it's top 6 pick Kemba is on the radar as well.

                            Trading Bargnani however is not about scoring, it's about getting better defensively being a mroe complete team on both ends. I call Dallas and ask Cuban if he is interested in moving Haywood as he is probably going to re-sign Chandler. Haywood is a starting 5 in this league and can rebound and block shots if playing 30 minutes a game, which he currently is not. I offer Cuban Bargnani for Haywood, D. Jones and their 1st round pick.

                            On the surface it looks like they are fleecing me I know and Bargnani is probably the best player in that deal no doubt but you're not trading away a star. However when your roster now consists of a 3 man big rotation of Davis, A. Johnson and Haywood playing the 5, you're starting to build something and protecting your rim.

                            A drafted pg could work nicely with Calderon coming off the bench but now DeRozan, Davis, Johnson shots are coming a lot easier and the team can focus on becoming a better defensive team. If you can keep Barbosa and have him coming off the bench scoring won't be an issue. if you can't get a 1, Barnes at the 3 would be fine with me as well.

                            Colangelo (and I do hope you are gone too) are you listening? lol

                            Comment


                            • Maleko wrote: View Post
                              In a heartbeat.
                              It's not that we might not be able to use him. But listed as 6'10 he seems smaller on the court. We do not really need more PF's. And at C I am not sure he is the right choice. If you are stating he would be the C we go forward with.
                              “I have no idea who Chukwudiebere Maduabum is, but on his Draft Express profile, he’s listed as Chu Chu. I think he’s worthy of picking just for that. He immediately is in the running for best All-Time NBA name.” -Tim W.

                              Comment


                              • Excellent post ezz_bee. Bargs can defintely help a team...said team just isn't the Raptors.

                                Comment

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