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  • Bendit wrote: View Post
    LOL a hate Sarver Facebook page...with 30 fans!! Are you insinuating I am not up to speed on Sarvers's miserly habits? It's curious you did not mention the 119 mill. in salaries his second year as owner of the Suns....when Johnson was traded. btw, Is JJ worth his max. 100 mill.+ contract these days?

    You must be/have been a rabid Suns fan who has followed them close enough and been very disappointed. Curiouser still that you dont mention BC as culpable in all that trade or player acquisition decision making.

    Cant compete with your passion. It seems personal. One thing I shall agree on though is I dont like meddling owners except their right to set a budget.

    And we'll just have to disagree on the up & down 3 pt. shooting style of basketball as being a sustainable and ultimately winning style in the NBA. It might work in the NCAA tournament...for a few games. Because ultimately when you need it most (and the team is a one trick pony) it will fail. I prefer a balance with a commitment to defence.
    I gotta agree that Sarver is pretty much a cheap bastard whose penny pinching drove both Colangelo and Steve Kerr away.
    Read my blog, The Picket Fence. Guaranteed to make you think or your money back!
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    • Apollo wrote: View Post
      I think it would pretty much look like it did with Rashard Lewis playing there in his prime seeing how Bargnani is pretty much a taller Rashard Lewis. What would the Raptors get in return? I'm not sure the Raptors would want what Orlando would be selling. There would have to be a third team involved.
      The difference, though, is that Lewis was actually a half decent defender. And awful rebounder, but his defense was okay.
      Read my blog, The Picket Fence. Guaranteed to make you think or your money back!
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      • jeff_hostetler wrote: View Post
        Looking at the numbers posted by ezz, and looking at how valuable those players are to their team, I doubt any of Aldridge, Nene or Okafor will ever be traded for Bargs. Scola is too lateral of a move to make it worthwhile for either team (look at the defensive numbers of Scola - not much better than Bargs. Ditto for Bargnani's offense vs. Scola's). For Bargnani to be traded for one of the listed players, given that his numbers have come up showing him to be average to below average on Offense, and near bottom on Defense, it's going to have to be for someone either already on their way out because they are either unsatisfied with their role or because of their age, or because their team is in full on rebuild build.. On that list, I only really see Chris Kaman and Anderson Varejao.

        That being said, I think either one of Kaman or Varejao would be excellent and would love to have them play for TO.
        I think trying to trade Bargnani for another big man would be a mistake. I think the Raptors would get far more value trying to trade for another position or possibly putting together a package that INCLUDES Bargnani. The issue I have is why would a team trade for a big man when they already have one?
        Read my blog, The Picket Fence. Guaranteed to make you think or your money back!
        Follow me on Twitter.

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        • Or even with the kings. He'd be able to open up the floor for Cousins and Evans. If Bargs was your third fiddle you'd be doing pretty good for yourself.
          @sweatpantsjer

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          • ceez wrote: View Post
            Or even with the kings. He'd be able to open up the floor for Cousins and Evans. If Bargs was your third fiddle you'd be doing pretty good for yourself.
            ...on offense.
            Read my blog, The Picket Fence. Guaranteed to make you think or your money back!
            Follow me on Twitter.

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            • Well obviously
              @sweatpantsjer

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              • First, jeff_hostetler's formula is not a good idea because PER already takes into account field goal attempts and shooting percentage.

                Second: great analysis ezz_bee.

                Third: I trade Bargnani for LaMarcus aldridge and Nene. Maybe David Lee? Maybe David West if he hadn't blown out his ACL? Lamar Odom, Tyson Chandler, or Chris Kaman if I wanted to win now as opposed to building for the future.

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                • Matt52 wrote: View Post
                  I'm not sure where you got the money information ...
                  Sorry...

                  http://content.usatoday.com/sportsda...ries/team/2005

                  There is no question that the Melo acquisition which decimated the NY team was ill advised not only because of the players they gave up but that Melo is not in shape enough to run in DAntoni's offence. But how do you account for Amare saying he wasnt taught defence in Phoenix (I paraphrase). I am aware they dont get along particularly well but....saying that publically was shocking. The athleticism and commitment of players like Marion and Bell and a younger Diaw can arguably be debated as adequate reasons why the defensive metrics you cite were achieved when in Phoenix. Players like that are man on man lock down players on defense and need not have a system/scheme to work off. Neither the Raptors nor NY have such talent...yet.

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                  • Tim W. wrote: View Post
                    I think trying to trade Bargnani for another big man would be a mistake. I think the Raptors would get far more value trying to trade for another position or possibly putting together a package that INCLUDES Bargnani. The issue I have is why would a team trade for a big man when they already have one?
                    I would tend to agree with you, if not for the fact that without Bargnani the Raptors have a serious size issue in the frontcourt. Someone big would have to come back. I was also trying to keep the trade ideas limited to the players listed in the OP, for fear this would degenerate into another "trade bargnani" thread, wherein it would then likely be dumped into the mass "everything bargnani" thread. Also, in keeping with the OP, I was trying to outline what value Bargnani might have relative to other teams and their big men.

                    Comment


                    • Bendit wrote: View Post
                      Sorry...

                      http://content.usatoday.com/sportsda...ries/team/2005

                      There is no question that the Melo acquisition which decimated the NY team was ill advised not only because of the players they gave up but that Melo is not in shape enough to run in DAntoni's offence. But how do you account for Amare saying he wasnt taught defence in Phoenix (I paraphrase). I am aware they dont get along particularly well but....saying that publically was shocking. The athleticism and commitment of players like Marion and Bell and a younger Diaw can arguably be debated as adequate reasons why the defensive metrics you cite were achieved when in Phoenix. Players like that are man on man lock down players on defense and need not have a system/scheme to work off. Neither the Raptors nor NY have such talent...yet.
                      That money information is 100% wrong. There is no if, and, or but about it.

                      There is no way that small market teams like Memphis or Indiana were paying $133M or $129M. The salary cap and luxury tax are at all time highs currently under this CBA. To put those numbers in perspective with a luxury tax of $2 for every $1, they would be paying nearly $40M in tax.

                      These links are much more accurate and supported by HoopsHype.com and HoopsWorld.com.

                      http://www.eskimo.com/~pbender/misc/salaries05.txt
                      http://www.eskimo.com/~pbender/misc/salaries06.txt
                      http://www.eskimo.com/~pbender/misc/salaries07.txt
                      http://www.eskimo.com/~pbender/misc/salaries08.txt
                      http://www.eskimo.com/~pbender/misc/salaries09.txt
                      http://www.eskimo.com/~pbender/misc/salaries10.txt
                      http://www.eskimo.com/~pbender/misc/salaries11.txt

                      Comment


                      • I like bargnani but its time to admit it. its not working out here for bargs and we will never be w winning team with bargnani at C. the goldenstate loss cannot be over looked and its a serious problem. the raptors cannot have a season this bad next year if we want to start attracting Free Agents. i know that bargnani is not the only problem but he is a big part of it along with calderon. calderon would be a great backup but bargs will never be moved to the bench. after the chandler deal fell through i tinhk bargs was given this year to see what he improoved on. sorry to say it bagnani lovers but its time...
                        Last edited by pesterm1; Mon Mar 28, 2011, 02:08 PM.

                        Comment


                        • Tim W. wrote: View Post
                          I gotta agree that Sarver is pretty much a cheap bastard whose penny pinching drove both Colangelo and Steve Kerr away.
                          I must admit I am not terribly up on the Suns ownership details/habits so I went out there to absorb what the good people of Phoenix had to say about the Kerr departure and think you may be plugged in better than I.

                          From one of the blogs:

                          LeBron got drunk last night and called Sarver up, telling him that he’d come to Phoenix if Sarver let his turtle be the GM. Sarver says OK.

                          This morning LeBron called again to apologize, said he was drunk. But Sarver is ousting Kerr and hiring Lebron’s turtle anyway.

                          __________________________________________________ __________________________________________________ ____

                          Comment


                          • Matt52 wrote: View Post
                            That money information is 100% wrong. There is no if, and, or but about it.

                            There is no way that small market teams like Memphis or Indiana were paying $133M or $129M. The salary cap and luxury tax are at all time highs currently under this CBA. To put those numbers in perspective with a luxury tax of $2 for every $1, they would be paying nearly $40M in tax.

                            These links are much more accurate and supported by HoopsHype.com and HoopsWorld.com.

                            http://www.eskimo.com/~pbender/misc/salaries05.txt
                            http://www.eskimo.com/~pbender/misc/salaries06.txt
                            http://www.eskimo.com/~pbender/misc/salaries07.txt
                            http://www.eskimo.com/~pbender/misc/salaries08.txt
                            http://www.eskimo.com/~pbender/misc/salaries09.txt
                            http://www.eskimo.com/~pbender/misc/salaries10.txt
                            http://www.eskimo.com/~pbender/misc/salaries11.txt
                            Cant trust USA Today I guess. Amazing... I decided to drill down further by clicking on the team name to get a break down of individual player salaries and find that they have doubled up on each player!! Wonder if anyone checks their own budget projections? Strike that argument.

                            Comment


                            • jeff_hostetler wrote: View Post
                              I would tend to agree with you, if not for the fact that without Bargnani the Raptors have a serious size issue in the frontcourt. Someone big would have to come back. I was also trying to keep the trade ideas limited to the players listed in the OP, for fear this would degenerate into another "trade bargnani" thread, wherein it would then likely be dumped into the mass "everything bargnani" thread. Also, in keeping with the OP, I was trying to outline what value Bargnani might have relative to other teams and their big men.
                              I agree that the Raptors would need to get a center, but that does not mean that you have to trade Bargnani for one. You can draft, sign or trade another player for a center.
                              Read my blog, The Picket Fence. Guaranteed to make you think or your money back!
                              Follow me on Twitter.

                              Comment


                              • Bendit wrote: View Post
                                LOL a hate Sarver Facebook page...with 30 fans!! Are you insinuating I am not up to speed on Sarvers's miserly habits? It's curious you did not mention the 119 mill. in salaries his second year as owner of the Suns....when Johnson was traded. btw, Is JJ worth his max. 100 mill.+ contract these days?

                                You must be/have been a rabid Suns fan who has followed them close enough and been very disappointed. Curiouser still that you dont mention BC as culpable in all that trade or player acquisition decision making.

                                Cant compete with your passion. It seems personal. One thing I shall agree on though is I dont like meddling owners except their right to set a budget.

                                And we'll just have to disagree on the up & down 3 pt. shooting style of basketball as being a sustainable and ultimately winning style in the NBA. It might work in the NCAA tournament...for a few games. Because ultimately when you need it most (and the team is a one trick pony) it will fail. I prefer a balance with a commitment to defence.
                                It was @ 29 this morning.

                                Wish I'd seen all their games. They were a joy to watch. And if not for a few moments they would have at least made the Finals. But most teams need that little piece of luck to win it all. And the Suns never seemed to get it. But maybe that is something we could have here. The main problem is finding ... looking for the word ... an Apex PG. Paul, Williams, Nash, maybe Rondo. They are few and far between. Nash was good for a long time, but in that time he crafted his game into being an Apex PG.

                                And yes, BC was part of some bad decisions, but he has been here since 2006. And it seems like the kind of team he wants to build and I think he'd do it well.
                                “I have no idea who Chukwudiebere Maduabum is, but on his Draft Express profile, he’s listed as Chu Chu. I think he’s worthy of picking just for that. He immediately is in the running for best All-Time NBA name.” -Tim W.

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