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  • 20-10, a block or two, and average D every game and I'd be f***ing thrilled.

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    • Tim W. wrote: View Post
      I have absolutely no problem with people liking Bargnani. Go ahead and do so. I like lots of things that other people don't like. Hell, I'm a basketball fan who doesn't like hockey and I live in Canada. But I don't go on and on about how great basketball is, in comparison to hockey.

      As for Bargnani being a great player, he's not. Plain and simple. If you can find a respected basketball person who says that Bargnani is a great NBA player, I'll cease criticizing him. If he was great., he would have made the All-Star team. If he was great, he'd do more than just score. If he was great, the Raptors record would be a lot better than it actually is. If he were great, the vast majority of fans would not become so frustrated with him. If he were a great player, the vast majority of advanced statistics would not paint him as anything but an average player, at best.

      Bargnani is a very good offensive player. I'd even let you say he's a great one- I don't agree, but I'd give you that one. But basketball is more than just scoring. Especially for a big man. Bargnani is undeniably a poor defensive player and rebounder. No matter if you are a fan or not, you can't argue that he is anything but that.

      Great players are great at more than just one thing. Especially if they are so poor in others.
      i understand the angst but some high expectations arent they?
      if Bargs was able to carry the raptors the way you say he should, that would be magnificent on his behalf, even Chris bosh couldnt carry them to above 45 games and he is said to be 10x the player bargs is,

      Also Bosh had Bargs on his team, bargs has barely any other currently decent players to back him up at the moment, hes not a amazing player so to expect him to be all you say is pretty unfair, especialy because Derozan is our next best prospect behind him and all he does is score. Bosh was never really thrust into the number one option with a team FULL of rookies and young players like Bargs is, so if Andrea is supposed to magically make this team of prospects playoff contenders, thats pretty raw.

      Comment


      • noxleno wrote: View Post
        20-10, a block or two, and average D every game and I'd be f***ing thrilled.
        I do find it fitting that his fans will ask what kind of stats he has to put up for "us haters" to stop criticizing. It's not stats I'm looking for. For the most part, it's the things that don't show up on the box score. Things like, you know, consistent defense. It also attempts to deny the fact that we actually have good reason to criticize him. I don't do it because I don't like the guy. I do it because of massive holes in his game. At what point are people going to start figuring that out and stop complaining that I "won't be happy no matter what kind of stats he puts up".

        He's a Raptors, for Christ sake! I'd love to be a fan of his. But I'm not going to shut my brain off and pretend he's not a complete liability on defense and a horrible rebounder, or that he doesn't seem to put in a consistent effort when he's on the court. I judge every player by the same criteria.
        Read my blog, The Picket Fence. Guaranteed to make you think or your money back!
        Follow me on Twitter.

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        • The Rawth wrote: View Post
          i understand the angst but some high expectations arent they?
          if Bargs was able to carry the raptors the way you say he should, that would be magnificent on his behalf, even Chris bosh couldnt carry them to above 45 games and he is said to be 10x the player bargs is,

          Also Bosh had Bargs on his team, bargs has barely any other currently decent players to back him up at the moment, hes not a amazing player so to expect him to be all you say is pretty unfair, especialy because Derozan is our next best prospect behind him and all he does is score. Bosh was never really thrust into the number one option with a team FULL of rookies and young players like Bargs is, so if Andrea is supposed to magically make this team of prospects playoff contenders, thats pretty raw.
          High expectations? I have the same expectations for every player. It boggles my m,ind when people say I expect too much from Bargnani. I have minimum standards I expect from every player and, unfortunately, Bargnani doesn't reach them. Not as a star, but as a player I'd want on my team. I don't give a crap where he was drafted or what role he plays on the team. I have never, ever expected him to be an All-Star, let alone a franchise player. In fact, he is prety much exactly where I thought he would be when he was drafted.

          The minimum I expect from a big man is decent defense, rebounding and to be somewhat efficient on offense. Basically, not to be a liability on either end of the court. And Bargnani doesn't do that. I expect consistent effort. And I don't see that. Why people think him putting up gaudy stats and becoming an All-Star will be the only thing that impresses me is beyond me. I've never suggested that's what he needs to do.

          Bargnani is a strange case. He's simply not good enough to lead a decent team, but he doesn't do enough of the little things to be a good role player. I put him in the same category as a guy like Michael Beasley. Beasley is a very talented player, but isn't good enough to lead a good team, but doesn't do enough of the little things to be a role player. Guys like Bargnani and Beasley, in my opinion, are destined to continue to put up decent numbers on bad teams. Neither are bad players, by any stretch of the imagination, but neither have the type of game that you can really win with.
          Read my blog, The Picket Fence. Guaranteed to make you think or your money back!
          Follow me on Twitter.

          Comment


          • Tim W. wrote: View Post
            High expectations? I have the same expectations for every player. It boggles my m,ind when people say I expect too much from Bargnani. I have minimum standards I expect from every player and, unfortunately, Bargnani doesn't reach them. Not as a star, but as a player I'd want on my team. I don't give a crap where he was drafted or what role he plays on the team. I have never, ever expected him to be an All-Star, let alone a franchise player. In fact, he is prety much exactly where I thought he would be when he was drafted.

            The minimum I expect from a big man is decent defense, rebounding and to be somewhat efficient on offense. Basically, not to be a liability on either end of the court. And Bargnani doesn't do that. I expect consistent effort. And I don't see that. Why people think him putting up gaudy stats and becoming an All-Star will be the only thing that impresses me is beyond me. I've never suggested that's what he needs to do.

            Bargnani is a strange case. He's simply not good enough to lead a decent team, but he doesn't do enough of the little things to be a good role player. I put him in the same category as a guy like Michael Beasley. Beasley is a very talented player, but isn't good enough to lead a good team, but doesn't do enough of the little things to be a role player. Guys like Bargnani and Beasley, in my opinion, are destined to continue to put up decent numbers on bad teams. Neither are bad players, by any stretch of the imagination, but neither have the type of game that you can really win with.
            Touche, that last paragraph i can understand haha
            but i believe that with the right coaching or a developed group of players, bargs could fulfill his potential, its waiting to happen

            Comment


            • newww nickk name for bargsss

              bsmoooooth!

              aka

              NSN

              Comment


              • grindhouse wrote: View Post
                A thought just came to my head can't a offer be made that is a incentive driven contract where say 1 mil is guaranteed and the other 7 mil is only available to him if he plays x amount of games and/or produces x amount of stats and/or the team wins x amount of games? or does his new contract have to be fully guaranteed to get him from Portland?
                You can definitely have an incentive laden contract. Two issues arise from this though:

                1) players are reluctant to accept such a deal for obvious reasons as money is not guaranteed,

                2) every team in the league, POR included, would offer and/or match this type of contract for him.

                Comment


                • The Rawth wrote: View Post
                  Touche, that last paragraph i can understand haha
                  but i believe that with the right coaching or a developed group of players, bargs could fulfill his potential, its waiting to happen
                  I agree coaching has to be there.

                  Comment


                  • dunkinderozan wrote: View Post
                    newww nickk name for bargsss

                    bsmoooooth!

                    Aka

                    nsn
                    ndn

                    No Defence needed

                    Comment


                    • Raptors_ wrote: View Post
                      ndn

                      No Defence needed
                      lol thats a great nickname for ed davis... props

                      Comment


                      • I have several serious questions for Multipaul. I'd like him to answer them.

                        1. Why do you criticize DeRozan's defense but give a pass to Bargnani's poor defense?

                        2. Why do you criticize DeRozan for not driving more to the hoop when he, in fact, drives more than Bargnani does?

                        3. You have questioned my loyalty to the Raptors and called me a hater for being critical of Bargnani, but you, yourself, admitted that you have never liked Bosh. Don't you feel that's hypocritical?

                        4. Why did you claim that Bargnani averaged 6.5 rpg and 2 bpg since January 1st, when he's actually averaged 5 rpg and 0.7 bpg? Where did you get the incorrect information and why did you not respond when it was brought to your attention?

                        5. Why have you been so critical of Amir, yet continually laud Wayne Winston's mathletics, which show he's just as valuable as Bargnani to the Raptors?

                        6. Why do you not accept subpar games from, for example, Amir Johnson when he is playing injured, but excuse Bargnani for subpar games for exactly the same reason?

                        7. Why are you so critical of DeRozan for not raising his game when Bargnani is out when Bargnani had lower stats across the board in games last year that Bosh was out?

                        If you actually answer each one of them (fully), I will tip my hat to you and cease criticizing you.
                        Read my blog, The Picket Fence. Guaranteed to make you think or your money back!
                        Follow me on Twitter.

                        Comment


                        • Tim W. wrote: View Post
                          High expectations? I have the same expectations for every player. It boggles my m,ind when people say I expect too much from Bargnani. I have minimum standards I expect from every player and, unfortunately, Bargnani doesn't reach them. Not as a star, but as a player I'd want on my team. I don't give a crap where he was drafted or what role he plays on the team. I have never, ever expected him to be an All-Star, let alone a franchise player. In fact, he is prety much exactly where I thought he would be when he was drafted.

                          The minimum I expect from a big man is decent defense, rebounding and to be somewhat efficient on offense. Basically, not to be a liability on either end of the court. And Bargnani doesn't do that. I expect consistent effort. And I don't see that. Why people think him putting up gaudy stats and becoming an All-Star will be the only thing that impresses me is beyond me. I've never suggested that's what he needs to do.

                          Bargnani is a strange case. He's simply not good enough to lead a decent team, but he doesn't do enough of the little things to be a good role player. I put him in the same category as a guy like Michael Beasley. Beasley is a very talented player, but isn't good enough to lead a good team, but doesn't do enough of the little things to be a role player. Guys like Bargnani and Beasley, in my opinion, are destined to continue to put up decent numbers on bad teams. Neither are bad players, by any stretch of the imagination, but neither have the type of game that you can really win with.
                          That, is sadly completely true.. I don't understand though why he can't play defense, I still remember in the final of the Euro cup in 2005 he played sick defense, was focused the entire game, hit shots over defenders and had a different appearance on the court than he has now. He used to play with flair and passion, he has lost this. Maybe it's the very loose leash he has been given by the Raptors or the salary he has been given, but he's not the player I was fascinated by for the passed 6 or so years. Even as a big Bargnani fan, I want him out of here. He hasn't done anything but score this year, I don't think he even tries to rebound and defend anymore. He is so talented, he is wasting it.

                          Comment


                          • Matt52 wrote: View Post
                            You can definitely have an incentive laden contract. Two issues arise from this though:

                            1) players are reluctant to accept such a deal for obvious reasons as money is not guaranteed,

                            2) every team in the league, POR included, would offer and/or match this type of contract for him.
                            That's good news I am not worried about ppl matching cause I think Portland is ready to walk away at this point. It's more about giving him a contract that he is worth, a vet min base with incentives to his rookie scale would be a good offer that I would take him for

                            Comment


                            • grindhouse wrote: View Post
                              That's good news I am not worried about ppl matching cause I think Portland is ready to walk away at this point. It's more about giving him a contract that he is worth, a vet min base with incentives to his rookie scale would be a good offer that I would take him for
                              Like Matt said, offering him something incentive ladened is pointless because Portland would match it. If you thought you could get him for a base salary of 2 million and 6-7 million in performance incentives, Portland would be crazy not to match it because chances are, they guy won't reach anywhere near the incentives and a base salary of 2 million guaranteed is much better for the Blazers than paying his near 9 million qualifying offer. You'd be doing the Blazers a favour by doing that.

                              Comment


                              • JoePanini wrote: View Post
                                That, is sadly completely true.. I don't understand though why he can't play defense, I still remember in the final of the Euro cup in 2005 he played sick defense, was focused the entire game, hit shots over defenders and had a different appearance on the court than he has now. He used to play with flair and passion, he has lost this. Maybe it's the very loose leash he has been given by the Raptors or the salary he has been given, but he's not the player I was fascinated by for the passed 6 or so years. Even as a big Bargnani fan, I want him out of here. He hasn't done anything but score this year, I don't think he even tries to rebound and defend anymore. He is so talented, he is wasting it.
                                Exactly what I have been saying. He COULD be a great player, but is wasting it. So many players do this in the league now and years gone by. Boggles the mind.

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