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  • DunkinDerozan wrote: View Post
    Reasonable fans?
    First off if you say a fan has an objective view on the whole Bargnani debate, then why on earth would they source an article from the score written by some unknown author and specifically quote an answer that has no relevance to anything. And even more use this article to weigh on your decision for keep him or trading him. This is clearly not reasonable at all. Who cares. Why doesn’t the reasonable fan source the Bargnani article written by hoopsworld http://www.hoopsworld.com/Story.asp?story_id=19313
    Yea Demar, Ed Reggie etc call him the franchise player. Not to mention one of his goals for next year is improving on D. Holly Mackenize author for blog from the score … Demar Reggie Amir … current players on Toronto raptors … which source would you trust?
    Who posted the HoopsWorld article originally?

    Holly Mackenzie is a journalist who is paid to cover the Raptors. Bargnani was asked questions and he answered and was given quotes. Because the quotes do not match your opinion doesn't make them false or worthless.

    Why would I quote DeMar, Ed, or Reggie when I quoted Bargnani himself.

    If you are looking for a quote from the HoopsWorld article, here you go:

    First overall picks are expected to become franchise players and team leaders but it doesn't always happen and our expectations may exceed what a certain player is currently capable of providing. From a Raptors team perspective, Evans paints an accurate picture.

    "This focus point is on him instead of him and Bosh so he has definitely proved that he can score in this league on a consistent basis and be a legitimate franchise player," said Evans. "There are things that he needs to work on but that goes for everybody.

    "He definitely has a great future ahead of him. He still has a lot to show people that will eventually come out, things just take time and it will eventually all work out for him.

    "If it comes down to the last shot, me personally, I want it in his hands. No matter if it's a three or a post-up, I have a lot of trust in him to put it in the hole."

    That doesn't mean Bargnani is or will ever become a cornerstone type franchise player, at this point Bargnani can only lay claim to being the best offensive player on his own team this season. The still developing big man has yet to find the remaining aspects of his offensive arsenal, his own comfort zone on defense, and a better nose for the ball on the boards. Of course, if Bargnani puts all that together, all bets are off.

    The reasonable assumption is that Bargnani will continue to improve but is not any more likely to reach elite status than the "franchise player" he replaced and the Raptors will continue to look for the next franchise guy in their own group of young developing talent and through the draft.


    Read more NBA news and insight: http://www.hoopsworld.com/Story.asp?...#ixzz1IUNM1Td1
    Do you notice the other 50% of the game Reggie does not mention? IF the game was just offense Bargnani would be 1st team all NBA, hands down, at the C position - but it is much more than that.

    Notice the bolded section - I couldn't have put it any better myself. This has been my position all along with debates with many people. The problem as I see it (so in other words in my opinion) is he has actually regressed this season in the other aspects of his game besides offense. These same aspects have been beaten to death for the better part of 5 years so there is no need to discuss now.

    For the record I would love nothing more than the Raps to be successful WITH Bargnani. My concern is it will take a special roster that might be extremely difficult and require a much longer time frame to acquire than what could be accomplished with the assets received for trading Bargnani.

    At the end of the day I am a Raptor fan first and I want the team to do better than anyone of its players.

    Comment


    • Matt52 wrote: View Post
      Who posted the HoopsWorld article originally? Holly Mackenzie is a journalist who is paid to cover the Raptors. Bargnani was asked questions and he answered and was given quotes. Because the quotes do not match your opinion doesn't make them false or worthless.
      But because they match your opinion they must be credible to post right?

      Why would I quote DeMar, Ed, or Reggie when I quoted Bargnani himself.
      So did you purposely leave out the quote where he said one of his goals is to improve his defense?

      If you are looking for a quote from the HoopsWorld article, here you go:
      Do you notice the other 50% of the game Reggie does not mention? IF the game was just offense Bargnani would be 1st team all NBA, hands down, at the C position - but it is much more than that.
      Notice the bolded section - I couldn't have put it any better myself. This has been my position all along with debates with many people. The problem as I see it (so in other words in my opinion) is he has actually regressed this season in the other aspects of his game besides offense . These same aspects have been beaten to death for the better part of 5 years so there is no need to discuss now.
      Notice how I purposely didn't copy/paste any direct links from that article because I let people read the article for themselves and make their own judgments. Anyone who reads that article would understand it was meant as an article complimenting Bargnani's game. Yet you subjectively chose to take parts from the article to strengthen your position which is clearer than a crystal ball.
      Also it’s pretty funny how you disregard Bargnani's offensive game; yet praise others for consistently improving their offensive games. You have no consistency in your player evaluations.



      For the record I would love nothing more than the Raps to be successful WITH Bargnani. My concern is it will take a special roster that might be extremely difficult and require a much longer time frame to acquire than what could be accomplished with the assets received for trading Bargnani.
      You almost had me for a second. IF only you hadn’t started that trade Bargnani idea threads.

      Comment


      • DunkinDerozan wrote: View Post
        But because they match your opinion they must be credible to post right?



        So did you purposely leave out the quote where he said one of his goals is to improve his defense?



        Notice how I purposely didn't copy/paste any direct links from that article because I let people read the article for themselves and make their own judgments. Anyone who reads that article would understand it was meant as an article complimenting Bargnani's game. Yet you subjectively chose to take parts from the article to strengthen your position which is clearer than a crystal ball.
        Also it’s pretty funny how you disregard Bargnani's offensive game; yet praise others for consistently improving their offensive games. You have no consistency in your player evaluations.





        You almost had me for a second. IF only you hadn’t started that trade Bargnani idea threads.
        Ohhhhh snap!

        bWo

        Comment


        • Tim W. wrote: View Post
          If you don't think Matt52 is a reasonable fan, then, I'm sorry to say, you've already lost the argument. We went toe-to-toe a few months back on the whole Bargnani issue, and the fact that he never once took it to a personal level and was respectful the entire time speaks volumes.
          I am commenting oh what I see today not what was written two months ago. Clearly matt52’s perceptions must have changed since your last toe-toe battles.

          I don't know what it is about Bargnani that causes so many of his fans to act the way they do.
          All of a sudden he has many fans? You clearly said 99.9% of the people are against him.

          When people who actually like Bargnani are sick of guys like Multipaul's act (as several have said), you know he's crossed the line. And I'm afraid you're not far behind, the way you are going.
          Iv actually read many comments from bloggers saying they are relieved multipaul is back on the form and value his opinion me included. I notice you always offended by mine and multipaul’s opinion when it relates to bargani, which is good indicator to me that you are in fact personally offended when people mention Bargnani in a positive light.

          As for Bargnani like his game, don't like his game. I don't really care. It's not my business. But he's clearly not the player that you guys pretend he is.
          You clearly do care otherwise you wouldn’t be so venomly trying to disprove us.
          Last edited by DunkinDerozan; Mon Apr 4, 2011, 02:18 PM.

          Comment


          • DunkinDerozan wrote: View Post
            I am commenting oh what I see today not what was written two months ago. Clearly matt52’s perceptions must have changed since your last toe-toe battles.



            All of a sudden he has many fans? You clearly said 99.9% of the people are against him.



            Iv actually read many comments from bloggers saying they are relieved multipaul is back on the form and value his opinion me included. I notice you always offended by mine and multipaul’s opinion when it relates to bargani, which is good indicator to me that you are in fact personally offended when people mention Bargnani in a positive light.



            You clearly do care otherwise you wouldn’t be so venomly trying to disprove us.
            Yo dunk, I support you 1000% brov, us Bargs fans gotta stick together, forget these haters!

            Comment


            • [QUOTE=DunkinDerozan;75235]
              But because they match your opinion they must be credible to post right?
              When one makes a claim, one typically offers a reason as to why - at least a rational person does.

              So did you purposely leave out the quote where he said one of his goals is to improve his defense?
              I purposely left it out because many Raptors fans who dislike Bargnani would have immediately picked up on the first thing he said about improvements to his game which were, in this order, three point shooting, then defense, then rebounding. This also provides further ammunition to his detractors and solidifies the post from Holly McKenzie at the Score: he is still not ready to make defense his number one priority in areas to improve his game.

              Notice how I purposely didn't copy/paste any direct links from that article because I let people read the article for themselves and make their own judgments. Anyone who reads that article would understand it was meant as an article complimenting Bargnani's game. Yet you subjectively chose to take parts from the article to strengthen your position which is clearer than a crystal ball.
              Also it’s pretty funny how you disregard Bargnani's offensive game; yet praise others for consistently improving their offensive games. You have no consistency in your player evaluations.
              How you chose to post is your decision. I highlighted what I deemed relevant to my input on the discussion. Thank you for implying that I am so knowledgeable and influential to sway the opinions of others when sources are provided.

              You almost had me for a second. IF only you hadn’t started that trade Bargnani idea threads.
              Why wouldn't I, or anyone else, start the thread? This is a forum for Raptors ideas. Any trade would be made with the idea of improving the team - it does not matter who is traded. I am for the success of the Raptors as a team over any single player, in other words, I am a fan of the Raptors over any player.

              If you look through the postings in the D'Antonification of the Raptors, for example, I have every single Raptor being traded except Bargnani until that rumour came out he could be shopped or open to being traded. If you look through many of the other threads in the Trade Forum you'll see I have every possible trade imaginable to get players that cover up Bargnani's defensive and rebounding flaws.

              The difference between praising others who improve their offensive game is they didn't let their defensive and rebounding game get worse - which many thought would be impossible but Il Mago did the trick. The only ones I can assume you would be referring to are DeRozan, Amir, and possibly Davis.

              I find it very interesting that one who says:
              Yet you subjectively chose to take parts from the article to strengthen your position which is clearer than a crystal ball.
              managed to cherry pick my posts.

              To conclude, the article concludes with the opinion I have long held: he is not a franchise guy, he is not paid like one, and the Raps best hope at getting one continues to be through the draft.

              Comment


              • Multipaul wrote: View Post
                Yo dunk, I support you 1000% brov, us Bargs fans gotta stick together, forget these haters!
                yooo bro BWO4L...

                Comment


                • DunkinDerozan wrote: View Post
                  yooo bro BWO4L...
                  King Bargs
                  Prince Dero

                  yo, Dero was sporting a bWo jersey in the post game interview, and said to Doug Smith "wolfpack! 4 life"

                  Comment


                  • Multipaul wrote: View Post
                    King Bargs
                    Prince Dero

                    yo, Dero was sporting a bWo jersey in the post game interview, and said to Doug Smith "wolfpack! 4 life"
                    you know it!!!

                    When Demar and Bargnani form the next Kobe Gasol combo.. people will look back and say you know what those two pioneers Multi and Dunkin they actually knew what they were talking about..

                    Comment


                    • lol... say what you want about their nonsensibilty... gotta appreciate that kinda positivity

                      Comment


                      • DunkinDerozan wrote: View Post
                        you know it!!!

                        When Demar and Bargnani form the next Kobe Gasol combo.. people will look back and say you know what those two pioneers Multi and Dunkin they actually knew what they were talking about..
                        You're right bro

                        Kobe-Demar
                        Gasol-Bargs
                        Bynum- Davis
                        Umm Fisher??- Kemba
                        Artest/Odom- James Johnson

                        DJ M'benga- Amir bwhwhahahahah

                        Comment


                        • tim w does an interview with bargnani /// hey bargs many people have been very critical me included of your reb.... Bargnani "IT DOESNT MATTER WHAT YOU WERE THINKING"/// gives tim the people's eybrow... then says this one is for the thousands in attendance and the millions annnnd millions of bars fans watching around the world... throws down mic... slips on elbow pad... and gives tim w the people's elbowww...

                          Comment


                          • DunkinDerozan wrote: View Post
                            tim w does an interview with bargnani /// hey bargs many people have been very critical me included of your reb.... Bargnani "IT DOESNT MATTER WHAT YOU WERE THINKING"/// gives tim the people's eybrow... then says this one is for the thousands in attendance and the millions annnnd millions of bars fans watching around the world... throws down mic... slips on elbow pad... and gives tim w the people's elbowww...
                            If u smeeellllllalalalallalalalalalall! What the Bargs....is......cookin!

                            Comment


                            • Multipaul wrote: View Post
                              You're right bro

                              Kobe-Demar
                              Gasol-Bargs
                              Bynum- Davis
                              Umm Fisher??- Kemba
                              Artest/Odom- James Johnson

                              DJ M'benga- Amir bwhwhahahahah

                              hahahah or

                              alabi = mbenga

                              Comment


                              • DunkinDerozan wrote: View Post
                                hahahah or

                                alabi = mbenga
                                Bayless- Steve Blake

                                Comment

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