Everything Bargnani

[the_aftermath]

the best thing for bargs is for him to get a career ending injury.

woah slow down buddy. we need all the players on our team to be healthy. if we lose Bargs we're a lot worse off. He is statistically our biggest offensive power so chill.

I personally am going to see how the first 2 months of the season pan out before making a decision. Also I concur with those that are miffed by this un-earned respect the YNGZ have. Lets see how they play before bitching.

[SirChillyMost]

Since when was Bargnani a leader?

Exactly.

Jarrett Jack is the Rap's leader, heart & soul for 2010-11.

[SirChillyMost]

Time for Bargnani to go see the Wiz and get a heart as that's what separates the good from the great in the NBA. He can shot all the Js and do all the post moves he likes in the summer but until he gets the heart to compete night in and night out......

[Lark Benson]

One more thing before I go to bed, I was reading an article at raptors HQ and noticed this on the sidebar, it's a venn diagram of the playing time situations I was talking about in my earlier posts: http://www.raptorshq.com/2010/7/30/1...nd-with-lineup

I could have saved myself a lot of trouble if I had have stumbled on that earlier, it illustrates my point in a nice visual way. Some of the things it shows:

a) The areas illustrating how well Bosh, Amir and Bargs plays when not paired with another member of said trio are pretty damning. While Bosh and Amir are both able to hold their own when paired with a lesser light, Bargs is a shocking -17.52 (I'm assuming here this must be per 48 given the decimals). Even worse is that the diagram notes that with all 3 out, the team was only -12.31.

b) The +7.09 of the Bosh + Amir combo illustrates what a lot of people have been saying for years now: that Bosh needed to be paired with another big who would focus on rebounding, defending, and getting his points from garbage buckets (in other words, a player that complemented his strengths). It's a shame that instead Bosh was force-fed a diet of Bargnani-based lineups that ended up being largely unsuccessful.

Now before I come off as an anti-Bargnani nut of some sort, I want to stress that I think Bargs CAN become a productive NBA player, I'm just not overly optimistic or have been deluded into thinking that he's been one up to this point in his career. I think that Bargs lacks two things that are really holding him back and that, if 'fixed', could greatly improve his game:

a) A genuine NBA motor and the ability to put it to use for 38 minutes per game. I don't know if this is a matter of not having the focus and will or not having a body that can handle it, but to play good interior defense and to rebound effectively in the NBA you need to work your ass off, plain and simple. Every inch you concede to your opponent, whether they have the ball or not, provides them with an advantage that you shouldn't be willing to surrender.

b) Basketball IQ. Call it instincts, call it smarts, call it anticipation, call it whatever you want, but Bargs doesn't have it when he's playing defense off the ball. NBA players are way too athletic for their defenders to simply react to their actions; if you can't anticipate the play, can't feel that screen coming, can't see where the hole is opening up and plug it before the offensive player gets there, then you're at their mercy. This will be Bargnani's 4th year in the league and by now he's seen every kind of conventional offense the league employs. You would hope by now that things would start to click.

[Multipaul]

One more thing before I go to bed, I was reading an article at raptors HQ and noticed this on the sidebar, it's a venn diagram of the playing time situations I was talking about in my earlier posts: http://www.raptorshq.com/2010/7/30/1...nd-with-lineup

I could have saved myself a lot of trouble if I had have stumbled on that earlier, it illustrates my point in a nice visual way. Some of the things it shows:

a) The areas illustrating how well Bosh, Amir and Bargs plays when not paired with another member of said trio are pretty damning. While Bosh and Amir are both able to hold their own when paired with a lesser light, Bargs is a shocking -17.52 (I'm assuming here this must be per 48 given the decimals). Even worse is that the diagram notes that with all 3 out, the team was only -12.31.

b) The +7.09 of the Bosh + Amir combo illustrates what a lot of people have been saying for years now: that Bosh needed to be paired with another big who would focus on rebounding, defending, and getting his points from garbage buckets (in other words, a player that complemented his strengths). It's a shame that instead Bosh was force-fed a diet of Bargnani-based lineups that ended up being largely unsuccessful.

Now before I come off as an anti-Bargnani nut of some sort, I want to stress that I think Bargs CAN become a productive NBA player, I'm just not overly optimistic or have been deluded into thinking that he's been one up to this point in his career. I think that Bargs lacks two things that are really holding him back and that, if 'fixed', could greatly improve his game:

a) A genuine NBA motor and the ability to put it to use for 38 minutes per game. I don't know if this is a matter of not having the focus and will or not having a body that can handle it, but to play good interior defense and to rebound effectively in the NBA you need to work your ass off, plain and simple. Every inch you concede to your opponent, whether they have the ball or not, provides them with an advantage that you shouldn't be willing to surrender.

b) Basketball IQ. Call it instincts, call it smarts, call it anticipation, call it whatever you want, but Bargs doesn't have it when he's playing defense off the ball. NBA players are way too athletic for their defenders to simply react to their actions; if you can't anticipate the play, can't feel that screen coming, can't see where the hole is opening up and plug it before the offensive player gets there, then you're at their mercy. This will be Bargnani's 4th year in the league and by now he's seen every kind of conventional offense the league employs. You would hope by now that things would start to click.

wow, how about spare us another pointless anti raptors diatribe. you devalidated your raptors fan status with 'it's too bad bosh was fed a bunch of bargnani led lineups'. truly u should renounce ur status here and go to miamiheat.com and join the other cb ballwashers. this is the BARGS appreciation thread. ur circular logic thinly veiled in poor man's stats and an obviously deficient basketball accumen do not lend themselves to this thread.

ps, since u r so savvy with math, im shocked u did not realize this willl be bargs' 5th season, not his 4th.

5 years of sharpshooting,shotblocking excellence.

[JoePanini]

Wow, this seems fun

[JoePanini]

He's been saying stuff like this for a while now, wake me up when he actually does it.

Last year he added post game to his arsenal. He promised to work hard on muscling up, and he did. He actually attacked the basket alot more, so I think he did follow up on what he said. He might not become a good defender, but he'll definitely put in alot of effort.

[Buddahfan]

One more thing before I go to bed, I was reading an article at raptors HQ and noticed this on the sidebar, it's a venn diagram of the playing time situations I was talking about in my earlier posts: http://www.raptorshq.com/2010/7/30/1...nd-with-lineup

I could have saved myself a lot of trouble if I had have stumbled on that earlier, it illustrates my point in a nice visual way. Some of the things it shows:

a) The areas illustrating how well Bosh, Amir and Bargs plays when not paired with another member of said trio are pretty damning. While Bosh and Amir are both able to hold their own when paired with a lesser light, Bargs is a shocking -17.52 (I'm assuming here this must be per 48 given the decimals). Even worse is that the diagram notes that with all 3 out, the team was only -12.31.

b) The +7.09 of the Bosh + Amir combo illustrates what a lot of people have been saying for years now: that Bosh needed to be paired with another big who would focus on rebounding, defending, and getting his points from garbage buckets (in other words, a player that complemented his strengths). It's a shame that instead Bosh was force-fed a diet of Bargnani-based lineups that ended up being largely unsuccessful.

I don't know where the information on Raptors HQ comes from. I did not notice a link.

However, below is what I posted on my Amir Johnson blog NBA 25-15 a while back which says something entirely different than what is on Raptors HQ. I got my information from 82games.com and just summarized it. I have no clue where the backup for the information on Raptors HQ came from.

What the information from 82games.com clearly shows is that the Johnson and Bargnani units were more effective than the Johnson and Bosh or Bargnani and Bosh units.

Here are the top five in minutes Bargnani - Johnson Units Calculated W - L Records

8 – 4
10 – 4
7 – 4
7 – 5
9 – 5


http://www.82games.com/0910/09TOR12.HTM



Here are the top five in minutes Bosh – Bargnani five man units Calculated W-L Records

9 – 20
15 – 16
12 – 13
9 – 2
10 – 6

http://www.82games.com/0910/09TOR12.HTM


Here are the top five in minutes Bosh – Johnson five man units Calculated W-L Records

8 – 6
6 – 2
7 – 4
4 – 7
5 – 2

http://www.82games.com/0910/09TOR13.HTM

Of the top ten in minutes units that Johnson was on with Bargnani or Bosh 9 out of 10 had a winning record as calculated by 82games.com. These numbers are taken from the detailed information from Bosh and Bargnani's five man units. I do not know how 82games.com arrives at their minutes or calculated won - loss record for each unit. I do know that 82games.com sells non publicly available stats that they compute so as far as I know the information on their site is reliable.
Now I will admit that Johnson played a number of his minutes alongside Bosh or Bargnani against second units but not all of them or near all of them.

So these stats seem to point out that the most effective five man units that the Raptors had last year had Bargnani paired with Johnson.

The full article can be read here

I would also like to point out for what seems like the zillionth time that Amir does not get most of his points off of garbage. In fact that idea is garbage.

Most of his points come off of the

1. Pick and Roll
2. Posting up
3. Run outs on fast breaks
4. Alley-Oops

Those are not garbage plays

[Buddahfan]

Bargnani, ESPN & European Basketball BS

Every time a U.S.A. national team plays in international competition for what now seems like an eternity ESPN/ABC or whoever, have stated and keep stating that American players are more athletic and European players are more physical

This is the biggest crock of basketball related BS going.

European players may be more more skilled in the fundamentals but more physical, give me a f**king break.

Watch any NBA game and if there is a flagrant foul called involving an American play and a European player it is almost always, maybe 90% + of the time the American player that is dishing it out and the European player on the receiving end.

In fact during the season ESPN/ABC and even TNT analysts go to great lengths to point out how soft European players are compared to American players. However all of a sudden when team U.S.A. plays internationally these same American players now become the soft ones and their European ones become the tough ones.

How man flagrant fouls do the Raptors European players dish out?

In fact the inability to do that properly and at the right time is one of Bargnani's biggest failings. Soft interior defense is like no defense at all.

I am not going through the entire list of European players now playing in the U.S.A. however there is only one who I think physically matches up with American players in toughness. That is Darko.

Casspi is also a tough guy, however he is from Israel which is in Asia, What toughness he has he got growing up in Israel not in playing vs European teams.

Do all the so called tough European players stay in Europe? So maybe all of this summer league play by Bargnani toughens him up. Say What?

[Pizzaman]

Every time a U.S.A. national team plays in international competition for what now seems like an eternity ESPN/ABC or whoever, have stated and keep stating that American players are more athletic and European players are more physical

This is the biggest crock of basketball related BS going.

European players may be more more skilled in the fundamentals but more physical, give me a f**king break.

Watch any NBA game and if there is a flagrant foul called involving an American play and a European player it is almost always, maybe 90% + of the time the American player that is dishing it out and the European player on the receiving end.

In fact during the season ESPN/ABC and even TNT analysts go to great lengths to point out how soft European players are compared to American players. However all of a sudden when team U.S.A. plays internationally these same American players now become the soft ones and their European ones become the tough ones.

How man flagrant fouls do the Raptors European players dish out?

In fact the inability to do that properly and at the right time is one of Bargnani's biggest failings. Soft interior defense is like no defense at all.

I am not going through the entire list of European players now playing in the U.S.A. however there is only one who I think physically matches up with American players in toughness. That is Darko.

Casspi is also a tough guy, however he is from Israel which is in Asia, What toughness he has he got growing up in Israel not in playing vs European teams.

Do all the so called tough European players stay in Europe? So maybe all of this summer league play by Bargnani toughens him up. Say What?

Do you have nothing better to do today? Isn't there another I love Amir blog you can start or something? This is lame and to suggest flagrant fouls make the player is assinine.

[JoePanini]

LOL. I think comparisons between American and European basketball in general is just plain dumb. Americans are clearly better, more skilled. Just look at the numbers, how many american players in the NBA how many european? European basketball players can be tough, they can be athletic, they can be skilled. It's way to general. You need to look at individual players...

[Buddahfan]

Do you have nothing better to do today? Isn't there another I love Amir blog you can start or something? This is lame and to suggest flagrant fouls make the player is assinine.

So do you think that Bargnani is tough?

I sure don't.

I think he is soft like Neapolitan ice cream that has been setting outside in the summer sun for 20 minutes or more.

[MaGIX]

European clubs only play once a week and are allowed a lot more , it's more physical NBA refs are instructed to stop the physical play ever hear Oakley the league is soft now
nba 82 games min a year
europe max 45 a year

[JoePanini]

European clubs only play once a week and are allowed a lot more , it's more physical NBA refs are instructed to stop the physical play ever hear Oakley the league is soft now
nba 82 games min a year
europe max 45 a year

It's not about how much you play. I've played in Europe (not professionally) and even if games are once a week, we trained everyday for 2 hours. And this was amateur. So, just because they play less games doesn't make them less physical.

[Lark Benson]

I don't know where the Raptors HQ stats come form either, I assumed it was from 82games since that's the only source I've ever found of that information. It's possible the diagram is incorrect, I was going to bed and didn't bother to fact check it in any way.

As for how 82games calculates win/loss with regard to a certain lineup, it is:

# W = number of games a unit outscored its opponents while on the court.
# L = number of games a unit was outscored by its opponents while on the court.

That's taken from any of the team 5-man unit pages, and you can instantly see why it's not exactly a great indication of how effective a lineup is. For example I can look at Amir's top lineups chart and calculate that in 491 minutes of playing with Bargs, the duo was only +14, while in the 238 minutes he played with bosh they were +64. Paints a different picture, no?

As for the garbage buckets comment, I was stating that Bosh would best be paired with someone who does most of their scoring that way, not that Amir did (though I can get why you would take it that way). Besides, my personal definition of garbage buckets is what most people might call 'easy buckets', ie finishing plays typically initiated by others.