Everything Bargnani

[hateslosing]

I think your intelligence is overrated.

Wait so someone thinks I'm smart...that's the implication right? Someone thought I was smart and you disagree. Thanks for letting me know someone thinks I'm smart! I feel much better now.

Also Gallinari is the product of a D'antoni system that makes players look a lot better than they are on offense. Try actually posting a useful thought next time instead of attacking people who have a different (and better informed) view than you.

[Tim W.]

Tim
The Center is generally the man closest to the basket on D and is therefore the guy who acts as the last line of defense since he can usually step over to stop a blowbye. He can also get up and challenge more shots because he is usually the biggest guy on the floor, hence why you hear centers referred to a rim protectors. It does not always happen that way, in Atlanta for example Josh Smith uses his insane athleticism to step over and challenge, but it is usually the way of things. That's why I said our defense would improve with Bargs guarding the power forward, or finesse big if you prefer. It would allow a more competent rim protector to take over as that last line of defense without giving up what Bargs gives on offense.

The center often anchors the defense only because he's usually the best team defender and rim protector. That's obviously not the case with Bargnani. Bargnani is a good shotblocker, but is late, in the wrong place or is beaten far too much. Ed Davis is the guy that Bargnani needs to play with because he's an excellent shotblocker and team defender. Of course, what would be even better is if you didn't have to find a way to hide him. I mean, he's really not that great. Why are all his fans trying to figure out a way so he's not as big a liability? It's ridiculous. If the guy scored like Kevin Durant, I can see trying to figure out how to best hide his deficiencies. Bargnani simply isn't good enough to try and build a team around and that's what his fans seem to be proposing.

It's a hell of a lot easier to trade him and get big men who DO rebound and play defense, then you're not trying to hide big weaknesses. Get rid of the weakness.

[JoePanini]

I haven't read any of the discussion here, or the link cause I just woke up, and I have to leave. But Bargs is not a bust, 17 and 6 is not great, but it's decent. His expectations as no.1 is probably higher than that, but not a bust. I don't think after his 3rd season he was considered a bust anymore, just a sub-par no.1 pick. I'll elaborate later :P

[RikkJames]

i'd take Danilo over Bargs, if im an opposing coach, Danilo scares me and we have to plan to defend him, Bargs...? not so much. Bargs hasnt shown the ability to score consistently in bunches and carry the team, ive seen Danilo do it a few times.

[nubreed000]

What is with your hate for Bargs?

Or is it that you hate the Raptors?

I bet on that. If we traded Bargs, you would just whine and bitch about Amir...or Jack..or Barbosa. Don't worry, it's called "Torontosportsfanitis", many people suffer from it with you. Try and take a positive outlook on things.

Actually, it's quite funny. Up until the end of last season I was always defending Bargs on other boards saying that the kid has potential and will eventually bring it together (and there were some serious signs of this throughout the season). What changed in my mind about him was his carefree, apathetic attitude. Bosh went down and possibly checked out mentally. This was Bargnani's time to shine. The opportunity was practically given to him on a silver platter (just like everything else was from the moment he was drafted) and what did he do with it? Nothing. Yes you could make the argument that Triano didn't run plays through him, but some of that falls on Bargnani. For instance, if I'm at work and I tell my boss "I wanna work more. Let me do this. I'll handle that" then eventually he'll play into it. I highly doubt Bargnani went to Triano and asked, or demanded, to be included into the offense more.

I don't hate the Raptors (well sometimes I do) but I sure as hell hate the people behind the organization. I've been saying that BC needs to go since he fired Smitch, and since then, he's only proven me right.

If Bargs got traded then this team would not feel it one bit. He's not even close to being an integral part of this team. He's simply there. Although I never want to wish an injury on somebody...just hypothetically speaking, if Bargs went down for 2-3 months then we wouldn't notice it one bit.

As for "Torontosportsfanitis" yes...I totally suffer from it. Can you blame me? I still have flashbacks from '93 (even though I gave up on the Laughs a long time ago); the Raptors, over their 15 years of existence have established a legacy of fail and their fans have built up a reputation of being a bunch of ignorant assholes (then again most of T.O sports fans are like that. Any time I see a Leafs jersey my fists want to fly into the nearest face); and the Jays would be in the playoffs year in, year out, if it wasn't for that damn division.

Having said all that, I'm actually looking forward to the Raps this season. And Bargnani existence is on the back of my mind.

[Prime]

I'd take Gallo. Their styles of play are similar - they're both SFs. It's just that Gallo won't be as exposed defensively as Bargnani. And it's easier to hide defensive deficiencies at the 3 than at the 5.

No it's not. See also: Corey Maggette

[Captain Haddock]

Gallo:

PROS:
-Good size
-Decent hustle
-Real Swagger
-Creative shooter and scorer, with surprisingly solid ball handling skills for someone his size, and a gorgeous (and high) shot release
-Surprisingly (to me anyway) good finisher at the rim, guy's got hops
-Irritatingly good looking to this girl I like

Cons:
-Disinterested defensively; not like Bargs, who can put in the effort, but flounders at it, I watched a few games and honestly Gallo's D looked positively Turkoglu-esque on occasion
-Shoots...and shoots...and shoots...
-Doesn't use his size in the post too often, and gets backed down a lot
-I don't know if he can consistently, but didn't look like he could take his man off the dribble. Or if he can, he only used it against the defenders he knew for a fact couldn't or didn't want to chase him

If you check out 82games.com, they're pretty much the same player, and watching him play he looks like an athletic and gutsy Peja Stojakovic circa 2002. I'm personally of the opinion that Andrea's a 3 who grew 3 inches too many, but Gallo hasn't blown me away too much. If he was in Canada (eh), no way is he getting all this hype and attention.

Also, fun fact- my buddy and I were watching a Knicks game and Gallo was torching the other team (99% certain it was Atlanta, I was at a bar, attention was paid and lost). I had this conversation:
Me- "Gallo's looking pretty good out there."
Friend- "I can't f***ing stand him."
Me- "Why?"
Friend-"He's AJ Burnett."
Me-"What?"
Friend-"He thinks he's so hot and he gets all this attention and he's got all this swagger and he can seemingly do it all, but you know he's an incredible douche. Plus they can't D, and his haircut's stupid."
Me (after thinking about this)-"So who's our Italian?"
Friend-"Huh?"
Me-"Bargs."
Friend-(thinks about it)"Vernon Wells. Nice guy, means well, will never live up to that contract, and you're never building a championship team around him."
Me-"I'm buying you another drink."

[JoePanini]

Gallinari can shoot and rebound better than Bargnani, he's quicker as well. But I'll go with Bargnani because we already have SF/PFs.

[JoePanini]

I'd take Gallo. Their styles of play are similar - they're both SFs. It's just that Gallo won't be as exposed defensively as Bargnani. And it's easier to hide defensive deficiencies at the 3 than at the 5.

"they're both SFs." whaat?

[hateslosing]

The center often anchors the defense only because he's usually the best team defender and rim protector. That's obviously not the case with Bargnani. Bargnani is a good shotblocker, but is late, in the wrong place or is beaten far too much. Ed Davis is the guy that Bargnani needs to play with because he's an excellent shotblocker and team defender. Of course, what would be even better is if you didn't have to find a way to hide him. I mean, he's really not that great. Why are all his fans trying to figure out a way so he's not as big a liability? It's ridiculous. If the guy scored like Kevin Durant, I can see trying to figure out how to best hide his deficiencies. Bargnani simply isn't good enough to try and build a team around and that's what his fans seem to be proposing.

It's a hell of a lot easier to trade him and get big men who DO rebound and play defense, then you're not trying to hide big weaknesses. Get rid of the weakness.

I'm tempted to agree with you about trading him, but you make a good point about Ed Davis, maybe he can serve in a Josh Smith type capacity for us and his and Barg's games do look to be very complimentary. For me, I don't want to trade him for a few reasons. For one he is talented and when he hustles he is easily among the most dangerous big men in the league and if someone somewhere could ever get him interested in selling out and putting himself on the line he will be among the best players we've ever had. Just look at the way he crashes the offensive glass when he wants to, its almost amazing. For two, I'm not convinced we can get equal value. Say what you will about Bargs but he is a borderline all-star and I don't see us getting that kind of player back. For three, he seems loyal to this franchise and that is worth a lot to me. Even if he is just average and continues to play the way he has over the past few years, at least we'll have an average starting NBA center who is a Franchise guy.

Just to clarify about my earlier thought, I think Bargs should be paired with a rim protector to help him on defense and clean up the glass and score down low on offense. Maybe Ed Davis is that man, time will tell.

[Tim W.]

I'm tempted to agree with you about trading him, but you make a good point about Ed Davis, maybe he can serve in a Josh Smith type capacity for us and his and Barg's games do look to be very complimentary. For me, I don't want to trade him for a few reasons. For one he is talented and when he hustles he is easily among the most dangerous big men in the league and if someone somewhere could ever get him interested in selling out and putting himself on the line he will be among the best players we've ever had. Just look at the way he crashes the offensive glass when he wants to, its almost amazing. For two, I'm not convinced we can get equal value. Say what you will about Bargs but he is a borderline all-star and I don't see us getting that kind of player back. For three, he seems loyal to this franchise and that is worth a lot to me. Even if he is just average and continues to play the way he has over the past few years, at least we'll have an average starting NBA center who is a Franchise guy.

Just to clarify about my earlier thought, I think Bargs should be paired with a rim protector to help him on defense and clean up the glass and score down low on offense. Maybe Ed Davis is that man, time will tell.

It's those tease moments fans see that keep them hoping about Bargnani. But I've seen too many players like him who are all tease and no...well, you can finish that analogy. It reminds me of a girl going out with a guy who's an asshole, and she defends him by saying that you don't see him when they're alone. That's great, but he's still an asshole and always will be.

I don't quite know what equal value for Bargnani would be. Are we talking equal value for what he plays in small spurts? Or overall? Overall, he's simply not nearly as valuable as his fans would lead you to believe because most of the time he's an extremely poor rebounder, clueless defender and floater on offense. You can't judge a guy by what he does 10% of the time. At the end of the day, the guy simply doesn't help your team win because he's too poor a rebounder and defender. Wasting all the time on him isn't doing the club any favours.

I still like trading him to Minnesota for Rubio, but I'd also do a Bargnani and Evans for Okafor deal. I think now is the best time to trade him because I don't think his value will ever be higher. He's still young enough that some teams are going to want to take a chance on him, and he hasn't been exposed too much yet. I'm afraid his trade value will go down as the season progresses as the team struggles and his weaknesses exposed even more.

[Karl Marx]

"...Barganini isn't a bust yet..."

- Bullshit! It takes a MAN to play Center! (He doesn't qualify.)

[Karl Marx]

ANY Center worth the title MUST average 10+ boards in starters' minutes! End of story! I WAS a Center so I know what cooks. Ship him back to the softy Euro leagues!

[RaptorRoo]

Anyone with half a brain can decipher that Bargnani is not a bust. In fact, for what the Raps are paying him he has provided a very good ROI (that's Return on Investment sirwilly and some of the other mentally challenged on here). Having said that, obviously there are some aspects of his game that need to improve to truly become an all-star and this will be the season that decides his fate.

[SirChillyMost]

Anyone with half a brain can decipher that Bargnani is not a bust. In fact, for what the Raps are paying him he has provided a very good ROI (that's Return on Investment sirwilly and some of the other mentally challenged on here). Having said that, obviously there are some aspects of his game that need to improve to truly become an all-star and this will be the season that decides his fate.

The same aspects of his game need to improve since he was a rookie.......rebounding, defensive awarness, competitive nature & his heart or lack thereof.

Bargnani is now known as No Star for a reason......his fate has been decided as BC, Gherardini & Jay will coddle him forever as long as he is a Raptor player........smh Bet they (Jay/BC) won't bash Barg's like they did Bosh.....

Btw- Are you the same person who claimed that CB was taking Barg's rebounds away.lol