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Bargs' Defense Not Improved Over The Summer

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  • #31
    Last thought really points to the fact the we may now have to bring in Okafor if Bargs stays. Or heck, just trade him to Emeka straight up to appease Paul. Or maybe that'll make Paul leave NO. I dunno, something's gotta happen and soon.
    “The saving of our world from pending doom will come, not through the complacent adjustment of the conforming majority, but through the creative maladjustment of a nonconforming minority.” - Martin Luther King

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    • #32
      Andrea Defence

      Brasky wrote: View Post
      Being at PF has NOTHING to do with Bargs ability to use his face up game. In fact, his face up game becomes more of a weapon when he's matched up against slower Centres.
      The problem is the arc gets a little crowded when even your C is out there lining up for a 3.
      "I may be wrong ... but I doubt it"

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      • #33
        Buddahfan wrote: View Post
        He actually plays very well with Johnson.

        His offense is a bit better than with Bosh.

        Johnson rolls to the basket so well without the ball that he often takes two players with him thus opening up players for easy uncontested jump shots.
        There's no chance in hell that Bargnani and Johnson is a better offensive combination than Bargnani and Bosh. Again, we've already seen on many occasions how Bargnani does without Bosh in the lineup, and it was ugly.

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        • #34
          G-locity wrote: View Post
          I think its true that Bargs needs a stud at the 5 to take care of the dirty jobs around the paint but if BC can provide this player and bargs still struggles then what? I guess we all just have to see and wait.
          Dorsey/Alabi/Davis/Amir/Evans are all guys who are in the league (fringe or otherwise) to do dirty work - not have set plays run for them. Don't kid yourself BC is getting Bargs beefy dudes to facilitate his finesse game
          "I may be wrong ... but I doubt it"

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          • #35
            charlz wrote: View Post
            The problem is the arc gets a little crowded when even your C is out there lining up for a 3.
            What, because Amir Johnson and Ed Davis will be hanging out behind the 3 point line? Bargnani will be jacking up 3s no matter what position 'label' you give him. And at this point in his career, taking him away from the arc would be a waste of his limited talents.

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            • #36
              The problem I continue to have with Bargnani's defense is that he just doesn't play hard. What separates a mediocre defender in the NBA from a quality defender is often how much intensity they bring to that end of the floor when the player they're guarding doesn't have the ball, how quickly they are moving their feet to adjust to the positioning of the players around them, how difficult they make an offensive player's life by pestering, bodying and harassing them into spots they shouldn't be in or aren't comfortable in, creating lower percentage looks and broken plays. Bargs just floats around and lets the offensive player initiate all of the action, allowing them to slip into cracks, to carve out space and to get to their spots. It's not just one bad game, he's that listless nearly every night.

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              • #37
                Looks like the big fella had a bad game that was compounded by the fact that his teammates played worse defense. Andrea looked to be setting his feet and what not but that guy usually had a full head of steam after blowing by somebody before he got to Andrea.

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                • #38
                  Brasky wrote: View Post
                  There's no chance in hell that Bargnani and Johnson is a better offensive combination than Bargnani and Bosh. Again, we've already seen on many occasions how Bargnani does without Bosh in the lineup, and it was ugly.
                  Trash em if you want but here are the stats of

                  Bargnani and Bosh vs Bargnani and Johnson vs Bosh and Johnson

                  I actually have already posted them but what the heck

                  Here are the top five in minutes Bargnani - Johnson Units Calculated W - L Records

                  8 – 4
                  10 – 4
                  7 – 4
                  7 – 5
                  9 – 5


                  http://www.82games.com/0910/09TOR12.HTM



                  Here are the top five in minutes Bosh – Bargnani five man units Calculated W-L Records

                  9 – 20
                  15 – 16
                  12 – 13
                  9 – 2
                  10 – 6

                  http://www.82games.com/0910/09TOR12.HTM


                  Here are the top five in minutes Bosh – Johnson five man units Calculated W-L Records

                  8 – 6
                  6 – 2
                  7 – 4
                  4 – 7
                  5 – 2

                  http://www.82games.com/0910/09TOR13.HTM

                  http://nba-25-15.blogspot.com/2010/0...breakdown.html
                  Avatar: Riverboat Coffee House 134 Yorkville Ave. billboard of upcoming entertainers - Circa 1960s

                  Memories some so sweet, indeed

                  Larger Photo of the avatar



                  “As a captain, I played furiously. I drew a lot of fouls, but I brought everything I had to every practice and to every game. I left everything on the court because I simply wanted the team to win”
                  Quote from well known personality who led their high school team to a state championship.

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                  • #39
                    charlz wrote: View Post


                    Sure I think they want to move him to PF so he can utilize more of his face up game - but alas many players don't improve after 4 years in the league - Bargs is likely one of them who has realized his potential.
                    I couldn't bear to watch Bargs' defense in the video for too long, when scrubs like Pekovic are lighting your ass as an NBA player,

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                    • #40
                      Brasky wrote: View Post
                      What, because Amir Johnson and Ed Davis will be hanging out behind the 3 point line? Bargnani will be jacking up 3s no matter what position 'label' you give him. And at this point in his career, taking him away from the arc would be a waste of his limited talents.
                      well yeah thats the idea - but last year with Hedo/Roasho out there - CB was on his own in the key area - and even he was resorting to the J.
                      All of which contributed to the raptors being such a terrible rebounding and defending team.

                      Now you will see Davis/Alabi/Amir and even Kleiza posting up. whilst Bargs runs to his favorite spot on the ARC. And since they are fringe NBA guys you know they want to please the boss - rebound and repost to Bargs where ever he is.
                      "I may be wrong ... but I doubt it"

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                      • #41
                        charlz wrote: View Post
                        well yeah thats the idea - but last year with Hedo/Roasho out there - CB was on his own in the key area - and even he was resorting to the J.
                        All of which contributed to the raptors being such a terrible rebounding and defending team.

                        Now you will see Davis/Alabi/Amir and even Kleiza posting up. whilst Bargs runs to his favorite spot on the ARC. And since they are fringe NBA guys you know they want to please the boss - rebound and repost to Bargs where ever he is.
                        You really think so?

                        Interesting.

                        Stay tuned for Raptors basketball 10-11.

                        You might be surprised
                        Avatar: Riverboat Coffee House 134 Yorkville Ave. billboard of upcoming entertainers - Circa 1960s

                        Memories some so sweet, indeed

                        Larger Photo of the avatar



                        “As a captain, I played furiously. I drew a lot of fouls, but I brought everything I had to every practice and to every game. I left everything on the court because I simply wanted the team to win”
                        Quote from well known personality who led their high school team to a state championship.

                        Comment


                        • #42
                          Guys, I think we're underestimating the talent of Nikola Pekovic... he was projected to go as high as top 5 in the 2008 NBA Draft, but he fell to the second round because he was contractually committed to his European club long-term. Not sure what happened between then and now. Anyway, it's quite possible he'll be part of a two-man race with Darko for the starting center spot in Minny.

                          Just sayin'... he's not exactly a scrub. Easily one of the best non-NBA players over the past few years.

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                          • #43
                            charlz wrote: View Post


                            Sure I think they want to move him to PF so he can utilize more of his face up game - but alas many players don't improve after 4 years in the league - Bargs is likely one of them who has realized his potential.
                            I couldn't bear to watch Bargs' defense in the video for too long, when scrubs like Pekovic are lighting your ass as an NBA player, you must really suck on defense. I think it is time for BC to let go of his prized possession if he can't rebound, can't box out, can't set solid screens, continues to stay at the 3 point line when he is supposed to be in there banging with guys in the paint and can't show an improved semblance of help defense coming season.

                            It is also time for MLSE to fire BC and get either Jerry West, Kevin Pritchard or Steve Kerr(in order of preference but Jerry is expensive(about $12m a year to call him out of retirement)) or can go cheap and tab assistant managers from winning small market teams with shrewd drafting in the San Antonio Spurs, Portland Trailblazers and the Oklahoma City Thunder if MLSE wants to get fans back in the seats after this season(could be like the Jays attendance this season or fans could be real stupid like the Maple Leaf fans(or maybe those fans just love pain and disappointment?) and sell out Raptors games, if they sell out the Raptors games then MLSE does not need to worry as their cash cow is still there which is sad to me as a fan - owners should only own NBA teams if they are willing to spend to get teams more competitive like the NFL model discounting the Cleveland Browns and the post 1980's(possibly 90's)Oakland Raiders).

                            You all know why I think BC is not a capable GM(bad negotiating skills - always overpaying, turning Raptors into Phoenix North when we don't have an Hall-of-Famer PG in Steve Nash, his complete disregard for defense(the less exciting part that is important for playoff and championship contenders in the NBA) and his man-love for Andrea Bargnani - a big man that can not rebound, box out, set solid screens, play defense and do what big men in the NBA usually do). I think he is at most a used car salesman that hypes his product, only for such gullible customer to notice immediately he bought a mediocre product and has buyer's remorse as a result.

                            Sorry for the double post..

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                            • #44
                              Just saw the hi-lites. That's just depressing. I don't know why people are so on Calderon's case when it is clear this guy is the biggest hindrance our team has had. If you gave me the choice between a bad defending pg who was an excellent distributor with low turn overs OR a Big with poor defense and rebounding but could hit the three guess which one every other team in the NBA would pick? He's not a 4 either. How could this iceberg slow 5 keep up with any pf? Coaches have lost jobs over this guy. If he truly has value, move him already.

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                              • #45
                                Lark Benson wrote: View Post
                                The problem I continue to have with Bargnani's defense is that he just doesn't play hard. What separates a mediocre defender in the NBA from a quality defender is often how much intensity they bring to that end of the floor when the player they're guarding doesn't have the ball, how quickly they are moving their feet to adjust to the positioning of the players around them, how difficult they make an offensive player's life by pestering, bodying and harassing them into spots they shouldn't be in or aren't comfortable in, creating lower percentage looks and broken plays. Bargs just floats around and lets the offensive player initiate all of the action, allowing them to slip into cracks, to carve out space and to get to their spots. It's not just one bad game, he's that listless nearly every night.
                                +1. Defense is about intensity and effort(ask the defensive minded Celtics coach - Doc Rivers).Even if you are a human pylon like Jose Calderon, once your guy beats you and there is no help - foul him hard and make sure to avoid an and 1, and you can always use the Derek Fisher bread and butter(even though I consider it a sort of flopping) - taking a charge without moving your legs and outside the black restriction line and you get an offensive foul and turnover against your opponent and an extra possession for your team. It is not too much to ask and when Bargs as a big man can not box out(how fundamental is boxing out? This is what every big man first learns to do), then it might be time to trade him or bring him off the bench(even though he will be overpaid as a bench player - the classic Jose Calderon's situation which is terrible - I prefer trading Bargs instead to be another head coach's headache).

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