ESPN Insider: Hollinger's Raptors Outlook (Revisited 2010/11 Season)

[mcHAPPY]

Sorry, but those "positives" aren't exactly knocking my socks off. Catching a ride on the Tim Duncan and Gregg Popovich gravy train as your biggest accomplishment doesn't exactly scream "most important off-season move". And let's face it, PJ is only the assistant coach. The head coach is the one who demands the accountability and enforces that by doling out minutes and roles. Jay's got to do that - not PJ. The real positive here is that we've got an assistant coach waiting in the wings who will get into guys faces. Hopefully the players recognize that and will play for Jay if for no other reason than to avoid the alternative. His bigger contribution might be helping Jay grow a pair, in which case I would start to agree with you.

You should check out his coaching history - you are selling the guy short.

The reference to being part of the Tim Duncan and Gregg Pop gravy train is not about him getting 'lucky' in circumstances. The reference is he was a part of a winning team and organization. He has had more success, even if it is as an assistant, than any other player on the Raptors or in their front office.

Check his Seton Hall record.

You realize his first NBA coaching gig was the Blazers in '94? That is a pretty sucessful first stint.

Did you see the movie Michael Clayton? PJ is the Raptors Michael Clayton.

Edit: And guaranteed he will be Jay's successor.

[golden]

You should check out his coaching history - you are selling the guy short.

The reference to being part of the Tim Duncan and Gregg Pop gravy train is not about him getting 'lucky' in circumstances. The reference is he was a part of a winning team and organization. He has had more success, even if it is as an assistant, than any other player on the Raptors or in their front office.

Check his Seton Hall record.

You realize his first NBA coaching gig was the Blazers in '94? That is a pretty sucessful first stint.

Did you see the movie Michael Clayton? PJ is the Raptors Michael Clayton.

Edit: And guaranteed he will be Jay's successor.

Dude, I know my NBA history. PJ took over a Blazers program that was hovering just under .700 freakin' ball for the previous 4 years. Adelman got fired because he didn't win it all. PJ walked into yet another golden opportunity and turned that program into a slightly above average squad. The program got worse after PJ any way you want to measure - regular season W-L, playoff performance (or lack thereof). Seriously, get your facts straight before you attempt to call out others.

[yertu damkule]

The media has been written them off for the past 2 years and the media and critics were right! MLSE marketing spin doctors are doing whatever they can to convince the casual fan that this team has a legit shot in making the playoffs.

If there ever was a season to finish in the bottom 3 teams in the league and potentially get a shot in a player via the draft that could turn this franchise around, it would be this upcoming season. This group of guys are here to build something for the long haul but they can't do that until they get at least one legit star in one of the starting position while hoping that Derozan will become the other star.

i think we need to settle down a bit & ponder the notion that with a new CBA looming & a potential lockout, this upcoming draft may be unsettled. i mean, if there's no agreement in place by the spring, and it looks like there'll be a lockout, i can envision a lot of the top prospects simply not hiring agents, thereby giving them the flexibility to back out of the draft to stay in college for another year, while the CBA mess is worked out. it may seem an unlikely situation now, but who knows how things will unfold over the ensuing months? would a top prospect be willing to risk injury by playing another year in college over getting drafted & going unpaid if there's a lockout?

[mcHAPPY]

Dude, I know my NBA history. PJ took over a Blazers program that was hovering just under .700 freakin' ball for the previous 4 years. Adelman got fired because he didn't win it all. PJ walked into yet another golden opportunity and turned that program into a slightly above average squad. The program got worse after PJ any way you want to measure - regular season W-L, playoff performance (or lack thereof). Seriously, get your facts straight before you attempt to call out others.

Sorry dude. I'm not sure you know your history of the great Blazers program that PJ took over.

Drexler was traded in the 94-95 season.
Terry Porter played 35 games in 94-95.
Kevin Duckworth was no longer with team.
Buck Williams was 34.
Jerome Kearsey was 32 and only played 32 games - next year he was in GS.
Otis Thorpe was 32 and traded to HOU with Drexler.

This was a team very much in transition.

Here is their record and finish from 1990-1991. The excellent program you spout was in 91 and 92. Carlesimo held his own in 94, 95, and did better in 97. Those Blazers teams hold the top defensive records in the history of hte organization. They also did this while losing their franchise player in Clyde Drexler.

1996-97 49 33 3rd
1995-96 44 38 3rd
1994-95 44 38 4th
1993-94 47 35 4th
1992-93 51 31 3rd
1991-92 57 25 1st
1990-91 63 19 1st

In 93-94 the Blazers were ranked 10th offenseively and 12th defensively.

In 94-95 the Blazers were ranked 6th offensively and 7th defensively.

I think you should re-read the final sentence in your previous post and look in the mirror. As I recall you were the one who started this dialogue.

[golden]

Sorry dude. I'm not sure you know your history of the great Blazers program that PJ took over.

Drexler was traded in the 94-95 season.
Terry Porter played 35 games in 94-95.
Kevin Duckworth was no longer with team.
Buck Williams was 34.
Jerome Kearsey was 32 and only played 32 games - next year he was in GS.
Otis Thorpe was 32 and traded to HOU with Drexler.

This was a team very much in transition.

Here is their record and finish from 1990-1991. The excellent program you spout was in 91 and 92. Carlesimo held his own in 94, 95, and did better in 97. Those Blazers teams hold the top defensive records in the history of hte organization. They also did this while losing their franchise player in Clyde Drexler.

1996-97 49 33 3rd
1995-96 44 38 3rd
1994-95 44 38 4th
1993-94 47 35 4th
1992-93 51 31 3rd
1991-92 57 25 1st
1990-91 63 19 1st

In 93-94 the Blazers were ranked 10th offenseively and 12th defensively.

In 94-95 the Blazers were ranked 6th offensively and 7th defensively.

I think you should re-read the final sentence in your previous post and look in the mirror. As I recall you were the one who started this dialogue.

Held his own? LMAO. We're supposed to get excited about taking a team from 12th to 7th defensively? Heck, even KO took the Raps from 26th to 7th (with VC on the roster) and he got fired. Sorry, but I still can't get all worked up over PJ's resume to the level of calling it the "most important off-season move" like you do. If that's the best you can muster then we'll be going in circles for quite a while. I acknowledge that PJ does have some 'sandpaper' in him, which might be the best attribute to help the team. That's about as much due as he'll get from me, for now. His NBA resume is a whole lotta 'meh' and less.

[Raptorsss]

So, Golden, if the Raptors defense improves you'll still think that PJ was a bad hire? I'll take a 12th place to 7th every single day.

[golden]

So, Golden, if the Raptors defense improves you'll still think that PJ was a bad hire? I'll take a 12th place to 7th every single day.

I don't think PJ was a bad hire. Just because I'm not fawning over PJ and calling him the key to the off-season, it doesn't mean he isn't an improvement over Iavaroni. He is an improvement, which makes it a good hire. However, remember that the Raps were 30th overall in team Drat, so there really is no place to go but up. Getting rid of Jerkoglu will improve the D. If Amir gets more minutes, that will improve the D. A year of experience under DD's belt will improve the D. If Jack starts over Jose, that will improve the D. If Ed Davis gets significant minutes, that should improve the D.

The point is, we should EXPECT improvement in Raps defense this year, regardless of PJ, and even if Iavaroni stayed on. If PJ's a huge part of that improvement, then heck yes, full kudos and props to him. If PJ can help Jay stick to his guns when Jay has to discipline guys who can't or won't do what their supposed to do, then he's worth full value and more.

[SirChillyMost]

I keep telling this to people but despite the lack of action on the trade and TPE front, the biggest, most important, and least discussed move this off-season was bringing on P.J. Carlesimo.

PJ Carlesimo aka Yosemeti Sam

is a very foul mouthed egomaniac and the last that I checked on him OKC took off as soon as he left........PJ is a coaching cancer in my mind....

Plus, what's he going to do? Yell, curse at the players where as Jay couldn't or wouldn't? The player's will tune out PJ's rhetoric in a very quick minute, truss.... So many other coaches out there that could have been much better additions to TO's staff ie Paul Silas, in my mind.

[mcHAPPY]

Held his own? LMAO. We're supposed to get excited about taking a team from 12th to 7th defensively? Heck, even KO took the Raps from 26th to 7th (with VC on the roster) and he got fired. Sorry, but I still can't get all worked up over PJ's resume to the level of calling it the "most important off-season move" like you do. If that's the best you can muster then we'll be going in circles for quite a while. I acknowledge that PJ does have some 'sandpaper' in him, which might be the best attribute to help the team. That's about as much due as he'll get from me, for now. His NBA resume is a whole lotta 'meh' and less.

The "most important off-season move" made in a summer where adding Kleiza and Barbosa was basically it - unless you want to count the draft pick of Davis. Maybe the statement is a little strong but I still think it is an under-discussed and under-appreciated move.

You said he ruined a .700 team before he got there - wrong.

He took over a team that won 47 games then took that team that lost its franchise player in Drexler and had a supporting cast of aging players in 1995 to 44 wins, 44 wins in 96, and 49 wins in 97 finishing the same as the previous season in 4th, 4th, and 3rd. Kind of similar - minus the aging players - as the current Raptors and the competitive team.

Not only did he take the team from 12th to 7th but when he left they were 5th in the league. The Raps finished dead last, think about it.

While you say his coaching career is a whole lotta 'meh' or less, it is better than ANYONE else on the current Raptors bench. If you want to start trashing coaching careers, lets look at the Raps.

Your 'meh' or less implies that:

Winningest coach in Seton Hall history
NCAA final apperance
numerous NCAA tournament appearance
1992 gold medal winning asst. coach for the orginal DREAM TEAM (because they'd let just anyone coach there)
3 playoff appearances in first nba coaching gig
assistant coach 2 NBA championship teams (if you knock the team, lets knock Phil Jackson too).

Supposed negatives then:
choked by a less than respectable NBA player but VERY talented
Not a good go in GS - but seriously, GS?
coached a team that was in ownership transition and relocation plans with little financial backing due to old vs. new ownership.
coached a young, talented team that less than 2 years after are one of the most exciting teams in the league led by an MVP-calibre player in Durant with an all-star calibre point guard and Jeff Green.

Awful man, just awful!

Here is how things go down for the Raptors (and I'll most likely be wrong but whatever):

Triano is fired
PJ takes over for a year or two
New coach is given the Scott Brooks opportunity with matured DeRozan, blossoming Davis, prime Andrea, and whatever major pieces they add through FA or future draft (Irving?)

[mcHAPPY]

I don't think PJ was a bad hire. Just because I'm not fawning over PJ and calling him the key to the off-season, it doesn't mean he isn't an improvement over Iavaroni. He is an improvement, which makes it a good hire. However, remember that the Raps were 30th overall in team Drat, so there really is no place to go but up. Getting rid of Jerkoglu will improve the D. If Amir gets more minutes, that will improve the D. A year of experience under DD's belt will improve the D. If Jack starts over Jose, that will improve the D. If Ed Davis gets significant minutes, that should improve the D.

The point is, we should EXPECT improvement in Raps defense this year, regardless of PJ, and even if Iavaroni stayed on. If PJ's a huge part of that improvement, then heck yes, full kudos and props to him. If PJ can help Jay stick to his guns when Jay has to discipline guys who can't or won't do what their supposed to do, then he's worth full value and more.

How can a guy who destroyed the Blazers not be a bad hire?

The IF's of what you say in your last paragraph is exactly what I expect PJ to bring to a Raptors team that dearly needs it. IF he does bring this, which I think he will, then that is why he will be the most-important off-season move by the Raps.

[mcHAPPY]

PJ Carlesimo aka Yosemeti Sam

is a very foul mouthed egomaniac and the last that I checked on him OKC took off as soon as he left........PJ is a coaching cancer in my mind....

Plus, what's he going to do? Yell, curse at the players where as Jay couldn't or wouldn't? The player's will tune out PJ's rhetoric in a very quick minute, truss.... So many other coaches out there that could have been much better additions to TO's staff ie Paul Silas, in my mind.

Lots of opinions in there, little facts. Luckily I don't argue opinions, only facts.

As for OKC taking off when PJ left, very questionable:

1-12 PJ fired
2-17 next 19 games
20-30 final 50

They still finished 23-59 with Durant/Green third year, Westbrook second year.

I am not taking anything away from Scott Brooks but with the talent that team possessed, any coach coming in was given a golden opportunity.

The breakout came only last year with matured, MVP-calibre player in Durant, potential All-Star PG in Westbrook, solid Jeff Green, and amazing cast of young athletic role players.

I agree Paul Silas would be an awesome addition - to any coaching staff.

[Apollo]

Revisited

Time to give Hollinger props guys. He called it dead on the nose.

[mcHAPPY]

Not I.

I was and am really let down by PJ's contribution. I was expecting improvement on the defensive end.

Next up..... Dwayne gets a crack.

[enlightenment]

hell of a prediction!

[charlz]

do you think the players or raptors coaching staff read articles about the team?

i think they should, and share things like this with the organization to serve as extra motivation on the upcoming season.
dont know about you guys but me personally, one of the worst feelings is knowing that people think you suck, so youd try to do everything in your power to change the mind of people.

The reason the raps will do essentially what he said is not due to lack of motivation