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  • #31
    heinz57 wrote: View Post
    simmons doesnt know how good our weed is in toronto.... we'd destroy beasley here.
    People keep mentioning this in passing or as a joke, but I really believe it's true. Minnesota doesn't have the same "attractions" as cities like Los Angeles, Miami, and even Toronto have. Beasley can focus on his game with the T'Wolves, and because he's the only real offensive threat (and perhaps Love), that's what's showing up on the stat sheet.

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    • #32
      Marz wrote: View Post
      People keep mentioning this in passing or as a joke, but I really believe it's true. Minnesota doesn't have the same "attractions" as cities like Los Angeles, Miami, and even Toronto have. Beasley can focus on his game with the T'Wolves, and because he's the only real offensive threat (and perhaps Love), that's what's showing up on the stat sheet.
      Beasly on Minny is like Martin on Sacramento. Scoring a lot on a bad team needs an * next to the number.

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      • #33
        Nick wrote: View Post
        Thats kind of a contradiction isn't it? This is only Beasley's third year in the L, and he's contending for western conference player of the week. Miami was completely the wrong fit for him, plain and simple. Kleiza and Amir probably are better role players, but Beez is a franchise player. I don't understand how you can go wrong with a franchise player, who other then got busted for smoking pot, hasn't really done anything else wrong to lose my respect. And lets be honest, I think allot of pro athletes smoke pot.
        If you consider Beasley a franchise player then we completely disagree. TO me, Beasley is nothing more than a guy who can score really well, much like Bargnani (I don't want to get into a Bargnani argument, just trying to show a comparison). Beasley has no above average skills other than scoring. He doesn't play defense, doesn't make his teammates better, doesn't rebound the ball well. The Raptors spent years trying to build around a borderline franchise player who had no above average skills other than scoring and rebounding. And they got nowhere. The real franchise players make their teammates look better. Beasley doesn't do that.

        And as other people have stated, it's not the pot smoking, it's the possible mental health issues. In order to be a true franchise player in the NBA, you need a certain mental toughness. A guy who has battled depression, I'm sorry to say, will struggle just to remain consistent, let alone lead a team to a Championship.
        Read my blog, The Picket Fence. Guaranteed to make you think or your money back!
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        • #34
          Marz wrote: View Post
          People keep mentioning this in passing or as a joke, but I really believe it's true. Minnesota doesn't have the same "attractions" as cities like Los Angeles, Miami, and even Toronto have. Beasley can focus on his game with the T'Wolves, and because he's the only real offensive threat (and perhaps Love), that's what's showing up on the stat sheet.
          i keep saying it... and it gets taken as a joke... and to be honest, 90% of the time i frame it as a joke.. but i believe it wholeheartedly... given one hour after i leave work today, if i really wanted to, i could induldge in a plethora of "activity".................

          hmm..

          it is pay day.

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          • #35
            Legalize-It wrote: View Post
            the first sentence of your post shows how ignorant your are.... almost anyone in the league has proven they can be a role player on a good team...

            big baby davis
            saha vujacic

            the fact is beasley is younger, more talented, and has WAY MORE UPSIDE...

            i would rather hav a player that smokes weed or w/e but plays hard, over bargs, TJ Ford, hedo turkoglu, and jason kapono.
            I had trouble getting past your first sentence. If you want to rephrase it without the insult, I'd be glad to respond.
            Read my blog, The Picket Fence. Guaranteed to make you think or your money back!
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            • #36
              Liston wrote: View Post
              Hopefully. So far he's the ultimate in volume scoring - TS% of 47.9% ranks him 42nd for SF. Beasley is much better at 55.6%.
              Never have a clue that passing the ball on occasion can actually improve your team's chances of winning.
              Kleiza was one of the two best Raptors during the preseason. I doubt he's going to be that good, but my guess is it will be somewhere in between what we've seen so far during the regular season, and what he did in the preseason. Hopefully closer to the latter.
              Read my blog, The Picket Fence. Guaranteed to make you think or your money back!
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              • #37
                I think that more than anything, Beasley would have wanted to leave toronto. He just seems like that kind of player. He's arrogant and would have a fit about playing in Canada (it's stupid but it happens). If for no other reason than to just avoid the headache of having a guy who doesn't want to be here, then great. We need more guys like the young gunz who love toronto. If they can develop and spread the love of Canada/Toronto with our top draft pick next summer then we'll be okay.

                An important part of business is culture and what the young gunz are creating is a culture that loves canada, works hard and gives back to the community. Beasley would have taken away from that. What do we need more? Talent or culture? I think the culture has to come first and fans need to be patient with the process instead of trying to hang someone new everyday. e.g. Jack, Calderon, Colangelo, Triano, Bargnani. It circulates daily. We haven't played poorly except for the washington game. If we can compete and work hard all year long, then I will be happy (happier if we win) but happy nonetheless if everyone works their butts off. We don't have tons of talent but if we can show heart then we have something to build on.

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                • #38
                  I have to say that I agree w/ Tim W. on mostly everything in this topic except for his opinion on the lack of success people w/ mental health issues can have.

                  There are a ton of people who battle depression, etc...who go on to do great things.

                  I think in many cases, and I could see basketball as one of them, their depression may fuel them to become better and more competitive.

                  With that being said, sometimes I get upset we didn't take Beasley. But in the long run I think we will be happier with Kleiza.

                  And obviously BC has made some mega mega mistakes. But Ill bet a lot of us would agree that this team (without the major additions we are crossing our fingers for) are a much more exciting team to root for than a lot of the previous teams.

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                  • #39
                    heinz57 wrote: View Post
                    simmons doesnt know how good our weed is in toronto.... we'd destroy beasley here.
                    hahahah, he's sitting out one game on the inactive list and is sitting on the sideline just all strung out.jokes

                    seriously, just johnson i understand,but, kleiza and johnson, hell no.

                    kleiza is better than beasley.
                    If Your Uncle Jack Helped You Off An Elephant, Would You Help Your Uncle Jack Off An Elephant?

                    Sometimes, I like to buy a book on CD and listen to it, while reading music.

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                    • #40
                      Tim W. wrote: View Post
                      think both you and the Sports Guy are vastly overvaluing Beasley. He's a volume scorer that does little else. Amir Johnson, despite his flaws, is a much better piece on a winning team than Beasley, who would have quite a bit of trouble fitting in on a contender where he was not the leading scorer. Much like he did in Miami. Beasley is the perfect guy for a team that doesn't want to win.

                      And you're judging Kleiza WAY too early. I'm pretty sure he's going to be easily worth his contract in the long run.
                      Well Johnson is a volume fouler (is that even a word) who does little else. IF he can manage to not foul every 13 seconds then Simmons may be proven wrong. Until then, I would take a volume scorer who can consistantly stay on the court for 30+ minutes.
                      Deadallus

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                      • #41
                        Beasley is just as much as a volume shooter as Bargnani and connects a better rate (49% vs. 44%). Plus he rebounds better and is better defensively.

                        The main point is... Toronto is bereft of talent and as much as you want to knock Beasley, he was a number 2 overall pick and 21. To sit there and say that he can't get it together when we've seen other players get their s--t together when they start off with shady reps (Zach Randolph and Carmelo Anthony to name 2) is just jumping the gun. Klieza is what he is (as Tim W. described, a good role player). Beasley has way more upside. By the time that the Raptors are good, Klieza might not be even with the team. Why not take a chance on a young guy who seems to be a decent kid that just has some issues that a lot of dudes I grew up had and kicked when they grew up? If it doesn't work, oh well, you lose 60 games either way.

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                        • #42
                          DirtyMikeSeaver wrote: View Post
                          Beasley is just as much as a volume shooter as Bargnani and connects a better rate (49% vs. 44%). Plus he rebounds better and is better defensively.

                          The main point is... Toronto is bereft of talent and as much as you want to knock Beasley, he was a number 2 overall pick and 21. To sit there and say that he can't get it together when we've seen other players get their s--t together when they start off with shady reps (Zach Randolph and Carmelo Anthony to name 2) is just jumping the gun. Klieza is what he is (as Tim W. described, a good role player). Beasley has way more upside. By the time that the Raptors are good, Klieza might not be even with the team. Why not take a chance on a young guy who seems to be a decent kid that just has some issues that a lot of dudes I grew up had and kicked when they grew up? If it doesn't work, oh well, you lose 60 games either way.
                          but beasley doesnt have that the amazing moral ethics and character that bargs, hedo, TJ Ford, and jason kapono have...

                          dont you see bargs fighting for rebounds, hedo giving it his all every game, tj not sulking on the bench, and kapono doing more than just launching trays...

                          all those guys are WAY BETTER than this 21 year old...

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                          • #43
                            bearvon wrote: View Post
                            I have to say that I agree w/ Tim W. on mostly everything in this topic except for his opinion on the lack of success people w/ mental health issues can have.

                            There are a ton of people who battle depression, etc...who go on to do great things.

                            I think in many cases, and I could see basketball as one of them, their depression may fuel them to become better and more competitive.

                            With that being said, sometimes I get upset we didn't take Beasley. But in the long run I think we will be happier with Kleiza.

                            And obviously BC has made some mega mega mistakes. But Ill bet a lot of us would agree that this team (without the major additions we are crossing our fingers for) are a much more exciting team to root for than a lot of the previous teams.
                            I never said that people with mental issues can't go on to great success, but in the NBA, to be a truly elite player, it takes incredible mental toughness, and I think it would be incredibly hard for a player with a history of depression to get to that level. In the NBA, often the only difference between a good player and a great player is mental.

                            And I'm not saying it can't be done, but it would be a HUGE gamble.
                            Read my blog, The Picket Fence. Guaranteed to make you think or your money back!
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                            • #44
                              Deadallus wrote: View Post
                              Well Johnson is a volume fouler (is that even a word) who does little else. IF he can manage to not foul every 13 seconds then Simmons may be proven wrong. Until then, I would take a volume scorer who can consistantly stay on the court for 30+ minutes.
                              Johnson does much more than foul. FOuling obviously doesn't allow him to play more than 25 minutes, on most nights, but in those 25 minutes Johnson generally proves to be one of the more valuable players on the floor. As a backup big, Amir is fantastic. He doesn't have to play a lot of minutes, but those minutes have to be incredibly productive, which they are.

                              Beasley would probably help the team more immediately, but that's the last thing we should worry about. The Raptors are not built to win now, so you take the guy who will help you most in the long run. To me, that's Amir because while neither is a guy who is going to lead your team anywhere, Amir is a much better roll player.
                              Read my blog, The Picket Fence. Guaranteed to make you think or your money back!
                              Follow me on Twitter.

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                              • #45
                                DirtyMikeSeaver wrote: View Post
                                Beasley is just as much as a volume shooter as Bargnani and connects a better rate (49% vs. 44%). Plus he rebounds better and is better defensively.

                                The main point is... Toronto is bereft of talent and as much as you want to knock Beasley, he was a number 2 overall pick and 21. To sit there and say that he can't get it together when we've seen other players get their s--t together when they start off with shady reps (Zach Randolph and Carmelo Anthony to name 2) is just jumping the gun. Klieza is what he is (as Tim W. described, a good role player). Beasley has way more upside. By the time that the Raptors are good, Klieza might not be even with the team. Why not take a chance on a young guy who seems to be a decent kid that just has some issues that a lot of dudes I grew up had and kicked when they grew up? If it doesn't work, oh well, you lose 60 games either way.
                                I'm not saying I would be against having Beasley, I just don't think it's as big a mistake to have let him go that others seem to. I agree that Beasley has more potential, but potential for what? Beasley doesn't seem to possess the skills to become a good roll player, and I don't think he possesses the skills to be a truly good franchise player. His future, it seems to me, is to be the big scorer on teams that never go anywhere, like Zach Randolph, Kevin Martin and Corey Maggette. Put them on better teams, and their inability to do the little things hurts them.
                                Read my blog, The Picket Fence. Guaranteed to make you think or your money back!
                                Follow me on Twitter.

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