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Should the Raptors Take a Bite at Anthony Randolph?

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  • #46
    Nine New Faces wrote: View Post
    Randolph brings a ton of what the Raps need from the 3 spot, with the exception of a polished half court game.
    Nine New Faces wrote: View Post
    You really can't see how Randolph doesn't fit into D'Antoni's system? The Knicks spread the floor around Stoudemire and Randolph doesn't have a reliable outside jumper. Thought that would be pretty obvious.
    What does he bring that they need at that spot? Outside shooting? Lock down defense? Please explain.

    Nine New Faces wrote: View Post
    As I mentioned above, I see Randolph as a 3.
    I disagree. I don't think he has the foot speed to guard guys at the 3. I think he would be a revolving door. I think that if they were going to trade their own 1st rounder for a prospect there are better options. Personally, I don't think they should trade the pick at all. I think it's going to be a top 10 in the worst case. Best case (in the perspective of draft positioning, not on court performance), they're pushing closer to 5th.

    Nine New Faces wrote: View Post
    Go compare their Per36 numbers from their first 2 seasons, and keep in mind that Randolph only played in 33 games that second year. Smith got double the minutes Randolph did in his first NBA season, but Randolph beats him in a lot of categories including WS/48 and PER. My point about Smith was that it wasn't until he learned to use his game effectively and efficiently that he became a genuinely dominant force. His defensive numbers were always solid, but his offensive game didn't catch up until last season when he realized he was hurting the team by taking bad shots and made the adjustment.
    One could argue the reason why Smith got far more opportunities is because he busts his ass on the court and plays stellar defense. Smith does a lot of things that don't show up on a stats sheet.



    Nine New Faces wrote: View Post
    Both of those guys play center, because Nelson and D'Antoni share the philosophy that you always need one big man out there for rebounding purposes (or in Stoudemire's case, for running the pick and roll against slower opponents). Randolph doesn't play center, so that comparison makes little sense. When Turiaf does play PF alongside Stoudemire it's for matchup reasons, and obviously putting Randolph on a guy that Turiaf is better suited to guarding would be a huge mistake.
    Randolph is a big man who couldn't find minutes on a bigman depleted team. And Turiaf played center and PF for the Warriors.

    Nine New Faces wrote: View Post
    Let's be honest here; the Raps got very, very lucky with that pick. The thing about picking late in the lottery range is that you don't control who drops to you. The Pistons could just as easily have drafted Davis and Greg Munroe could have fallen to the Raps. Given that the Raps could easily leverage some of their assets into a mid-to-late first rounder should they make the trade, and that someone in the NBA will always be interested in Randolph if he doesn't pan out in Toronto, it just seems like too good an opportunity to pass up.
    The Raptors are probably going to be selecting in the 5-10 range and Colangelo has a very good track record with selecting guards and forwards. Not sure why he moves that opportunity for a guy who would be playing on his third team in less than a year. There would be also a lot of uncertainty and risk involved. What if the guy stinks at the 3 in the Raptors system? Suddenly they have four young guys looking for minutes at the 4.

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    • #47
      Brain Colangelo wrote: View Post
      To be clear - I support trading the Heat pick for Randolph. I would not deal the Raps pick for Randolph before the lotto balls have finished falling. There's ZERO upside in doing that now because noone would trade a top pick for Randolph. A pick in the 25-30 range, why not?
      That makes sense.

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      • #48
        Apollo wrote: View Post
        What does he bring that they need at that spot? Outside shooting? Lock down defense? Please explain.
        1. Rebounding
        2. Weakside shotblocking
        3. Ability to close out on shooters at the 3-point line due to his length
        4. Ability to double team effectively in the post again due to his length
        5. Slashing off the ball
        6. Ability to post up smaller 3s
        7. Fire / energy

        Yes he doesn't have a a great outside shot yet, but that's the easiest thing for an NBA player to add over time. With his height he'd be a nightmare to try to close out on if he ever developed it.

        Apollo wrote: View Post
        I disagree. I don't think he has the foot speed to guard guys at the 3. I think he would be a revolving door. I think that if they were going to trade their own 1st rounder for a prospect there are better options. Personally, I don't think they should trade the pick at all. I think it's going to be a top 10 in the worst case. Best case (in the perspective of draft positioning, not on court performance), they're pushing closer to 5th.
        You say he doesn't have the foot speed to guard 3s, I say he has the length to play off of them while still effectively contesting deep shots. Fact is, 9/10ths of the players at the wings in the NBA can't guard their position 1on1 and keep players in front of them. In my opinion Randolph has the physical tools to recover and contest at the 3.

        As for the pick, if the lottery was today they'd be selecting 11th. Your best case would have to involve a series of injuries, because unlike the teams below them in the standings, the Raps have the depth to sustain injuries and continue to be (relatively) competitive. My best case is around 8th. As I said before, the raps can afford to trade their pick and still package some expendable assets to get back into the mid first round, where they're just as likely to find a good player as they are at around 10th.

        Apollo wrote: View Post
        One could argue the reason why Smith got far more opportunities is because he busts his ass on the court and plays stellar defense. Smith does a lot of things that don't show up on a stats sheet.
        The Josh Smith playing today is not the same Josh Smith that came into the league as a 19-year old. He got minutes because that team went 13-69 and was absolutely god awful. The knock on Smith had always been that he played apathetic, inconsistent ball, only showing glimpses but more often than not playing without using his head.

        Apollo wrote: View Post
        Randolph is a big man who couldn't find minutes on a bigman depleted team. And Turiaf played center and PF for the Warriors.
        In no way does Randolph play like a big man. Much like young Bargs, he's a 3 trapped in a 6'11 body. Unlike bargs, randolph has the coordination and athleticism to use it. Asking Randolph to play center is like asking Austin Daye to play center. Players that have also been in Nelson's doghouse over the course of their careers: Nowitzki, Nash, Ellis, etc. Go read some of the GSW blogs and their reactions to Nelson's inconsistent and inexplicable rotations. Randolph may have had maturity issues, but most young players do. As I've maintained, stability, defined expectations and consistent playing time would likely do wonders for the kid.

        Apollo wrote: View Post
        The Raptors are probably going to be selecting in the 5-10 range and Colangelo has a very good track record with selecting guards and forwards. Not sure why he moves that opportunity for a guy who would be playing on his third team in less than a year. There would be also a lot of uncertainty and risk involved. What if the guy stinks at the 3 in the Raptors system? Suddenly they have four young guys looking for minutes at the 4.
        Just as BC has a good track record in the draft, he also has a good track record of fixing his mistakes by shipping them out. Like I said, GMs will always be interesting in Randolph's potential and if it's simply a case of fit then his stock will maintain it's value. Bayless is playing on his third team in less than a year. Sonny Weems isn't far off that. it's not as if Randolph has been dumped for salary relief, GS traded their glut of wings for the traditional big man / pick and roll presence that they desperately needed, and New york would be trading him in order to facilitate a trade for Melo.

        As for suggesting that a he's more risky than a draft pick in the 5-10 range, I simply disagree.

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        • #49
          again, this isn't even a question because he is better than everyone on this team and in the 2011 draft...i hated him at lsu but u you cannot deny his skills...this guy is a future all star player as soon as ppl stop jerking him around
          "the raptors were my fav team growing up"-kevin durant

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          • #50
            i told you guys abot ed davis, bayless, and now i'm telling you about anthony randolph...i would give upbthe 1st and whoever to get him
            "the raptors were my fav team growing up"-kevin durant

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            • #51
              Seriously, Anthony Randolph is like Ed Davis/Amir?

              Not a chance, folks. Better ballhandler, worse rebounder... basically better offensive skills with no D. does that really remind you of Amir (especially prior to this year). I'm not talking #s either, I know Amir is efficient, but he doesn't have the ballhandling skills that randolph had in high school. fact.

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              • #52
                Nine New Faces wrote: View Post
                As for the pick, if the lottery was today they'd be selecting 11th. Your best case would have to involve a series of injuries, because unlike the teams below them in the standings, the Raps have the depth to sustain injuries and continue to be (relatively) competitive. My best case is around 8th. As I said before, the raps can afford to trade their pick and still package some expendable assets to get back into the mid first round, where they're just as likely to find a good player as they are at around 10th.
                He's more risky than the Raps' current opportunity to pick in that range b/c they could still win the lottery. If they move out of the lotter or end up with a pick from 8-10 then it makes more sense to compare, salary, upside, positional need and years under control. For now it does not make sense and the Raps don't need Randolph this year. So... either trade the Heat pick or wait until the offseason.

                BryCo is good at not giving up too much for upside.

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                • #53
                  i think the biggest issue with AR is he isnt a 3! hes a 4 trapped in a female frame! on top of that he does not fit what we need for the 3 spot...if we plan to use DD or dare i say Crummy Weems at the 2 then we def need a 3 who can shoot from outside... & with our horrible track record guarding wings we def. need a 3 who can lock it down...AR does not address any of these area's.... hes a talent... but def not a talent we currently need...hes a guy who is supposed to be more of an offensive threat but yet he has horrible FG% & he couldnt score in a high octaine offence...someone really needs to strap AR down to a buffett table & then maybe hell fit his role with some team... maybe he should hang out more with eddie curry LOL
                  Last edited by DoNDaDDa; Mon Dec 13, 2010, 03:45 PM.

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                  • #54
                    Nine New Faces wrote: View Post
                    1. Rebounding
                    2. Weakside shotblocking
                    3. Ability to close out on shooters at the 3-point line due to his length
                    4. Ability to double team effectively in the post again due to his length
                    5. Slashing off the ball
                    6. Ability to post up smaller 3s
                    7. Fire / energy

                    Yes he doesn't have a a great outside shot yet, but that's the easiest thing for an NBA player to add over time. With his height he'd be a nightmare to try to close out on if he ever developed it.

                    You say he doesn't have the foot speed to guard 3s, I say he has the length to play off of them while still effectively contesting deep shots. Fact is, 9/10ths of the players at the wings in the NBA can't guard their position 1on1 and keep players in front of them. In my opinion Randolph has the physical tools to recover and contest at the 3.
                    A lot of this is opinion based and so it's pointless to continue. We probably shouldn't have carried it this far because we're wasting time trying to change each others' mind and it's not happening.

                    Nine New Faces wrote: View Post
                    The Josh Smith playing today is not the same Josh Smith that came into the league as a 19-year old. He got minutes because that team went 13-69 and was absolutely god awful. The knock on Smith had always been that he played apathetic, inconsistent ball, only showing glimpses but more often than not playing without using his head.
                    I gave you Josh Smith's stat line at age 21, the same age Randolph is now. The Warriors were absolutely horrible over the past two seasons. They won 26 games last year, Randolph's second year in the league. Josh Smiths second year in the league the Hawks won 26 games.

                    Nine New Faces wrote: View Post
                    Players that have also been in Nelson's doghouse over the course of their careers: Nowitzki, Nash, Ellis, etc. Go read some of the GSW blogs and their reactions to Nelson's inconsistent and inexplicable rotations. Randolph may have had maturity issues, but most young players do. As I've maintained, stability, defined expectations and consistent playing time would likely do wonders for the kid.
                    Not to nit pick here but come on now. Define "dog house" if you're going to use Dirk and Steve in that sentence. Anyway, I'm not arguing that the young guys needs PT to develop, I'm saying I hope it's not here.

                    Nine New Faces wrote: View Post
                    Just as BC has a good track record in the draft, he also has a good track record of fixing his mistakes by shipping them out. Like I said, GMs will always be interesting in Randolph's potential and if it's simply a case of fit then his stock will maintain it's value. Bayless is playing on his third team in less than a year. Sonny Weems isn't far off that. it's not as if Randolph has been dumped for salary relief, GS traded their glut of wings for the traditional big man / pick and roll presence that they desperately needed
                    Good point but Bayless and Weems didn't cost the Raptors a high lottery pick like you're proposing with Randolph.

                    Nine New Faces wrote: View Post
                    As for suggesting that a he's more risky than a draft pick in the 5-10 range, I simply disagree.
                    Colangelo has a far better track record in using picks than in dealing them.

                    DRAFTED:
                    '95
                    Michael Finley, 21st overall

                    '96

                    Steve Nash, 15th overall

                    '97
                    Stephen Jackson, 43rd overall

                    '99
                    Shaun Marion, 9th overall

                    '02
                    Amare Stoudemire, 9th overall

                    '06
                    Andrea Bargnani, 1st overall

                    TRADED PICKS OR DRAFT DAY TRADE:
                    '99
                    1st round pick traded in package for Luc Longley

                    Two 1st round picks traded in package for Penny Hardaway

                    '04
                    Two 1st round picks traded to Utah for Keon Clark

                    '05
                    Traded 21st overall pick (Nate Robinson) to the Knicks for Q-Rich and traded 57th overall pick (Marcin Gortat) to Magic for cash.

                    '09
                    Traded 17th overall pick (Roy Hibbert) to Pacers in package for Jermaine O'Neal

                    Traded future 1st rounder to Miami in package for Marion's expiring contract and to rid himself of Jermaine O'Neal

                    DoNDaDDa wrote: View Post
                    i think the biggest issue with AR is he isnt a 3! hes a 4 trapped in a female frame! on top of that he does not fit what we need for the 3 spot...if we plan to use DD or dare i say Crummy Weems at the 2 then we def need a 3 who can shoot from outside... & with our horrible track record guarding wings we def. need a 3 who can lock it down...AR does not address any of these area's.... hes a talent... but def not a talent we currently need...hes a guy who is supposed to be more of an offensive threat but yet he has horrible FG% & he couldnt score in a high octaine offence...
                    I hear you. Last season and this season combined, he's not even a 43% shooter from the field. He has zero outside range and contrary to some things said in here, it's not easy to develop long range when you can't even find consistency from in closer.

                    One would also think that a guy being proclaimed as being good with the ball in his hands would have a better AST to TO ratio than 0.72...
                    Last edited by Apollo; Mon Dec 13, 2010, 04:27 PM.

                    Comment


                    • #55
                      The answer is absolutely unequivocally yes. Anthony Randolph himself was a 14th rounder, and although he hasn't played or hasn't been given the opportunity, he's certainly worth more than Miami's pick, which will most certainly end up being a late 20s pick.

                      We have a shit team. And on shit teams, players get more chances than anywhere else. I'd trade the Miami pick for Randolph in a heartbeat, let him play his heart out for the rest of this season and next. There is a very small chance we end up drafting someone better than Randolph with the 27th or 28th overall pick, and I'll take those odds every day.
                      your pal,
                      ebrian

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                      • #56
                        ebrian wrote: View Post
                        The answer is absolutely unequivocally yes. Anthony Randolph himself was a 14th rounder, and although he hasn't played or hasn't been given the opportunity, he's certainly worth more than Miami's pick, which will most certainly end up being a late 20s pick.

                        We have a shit team. And on shit teams, players get more chances than anywhere else. I'd trade the Miami pick for Randolph in a heartbeat, let him play his heart out for the rest of this season and next. There is a very small chance we end up drafting someone better than Randolph with the 27th or 28th overall pick, and I'll take those odds every day.
                        Would you trade a pick somewhere between 5th and 10th overall though? That's the debate.

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                        • #57
                          No, the debate is whether or not he is worth Miami's first round pick. Arguably the 28-30th.

                          We do possess ours AND theirs, correct?
                          It's about money

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                          • #58
                            Randolph could be a very good player if he weighed at least 245 pounds. But to achieve that he'd have to put on 345 pounds. I'd be ok with trading a low-first-rounder for him, but not anything higher than 15.

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                            • #59
                              South_Side_Jane wrote: View Post
                              all the knicks want in return is a first round draft pick so they can use it for the melo trade.
                              we can send them miami first round. any thoughts ? than we can trade reggie and dorsey or waive dorsey

                              Source: http://realgm.com/src_wiretap_archiv...rade_for_melo/
                              Have a look at Tyler Honeycutt at 17, can shoot the 3, plays defense and rebounds the ball. According to draft express, he will be available at 17. That guy is a player to keep a tab on - he is a Nicolas Batum-like mode of player.

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                              • #60
                                i just have to add that i found the thread title kinda funny...:-) if the raptors take a bite on AR will there be any meat left on those bones LOL

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