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Hypothetical thread two: Should he stay or go? Jay Triano

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  • #31
    If they do hire a new coach, he needs to have much greater say in what kind of players are being brought in, kept and shipped out. Getting a new coach should be about adopting a particular philosophy and then sticking to it, and it has to align with the GM's philosophy. It's not about getting a new coach, it's about whether you trust BC to hire the right coach.

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    • #32
      Uhhh, that was me that mentioned Jamal Crawford.

      1 condition for bringing him in was that he would be the final piece.

      The second detail was that he would make the Raptors a better defensive team by forcing them to play him in practice. He may not be a great example, but again, the Raps don't see anyone in practice with any more than average on-the-ball creativity.

      The reason why I would want Triano fired is that he has not been able to get any incarnation of Raptors teams to play half-decent defence. Any player who arrives in Toronto regresses defensively. They don't put anyone on their butts, and they don't play with any killer instinct. If it was a few players like that, it's on those players. If the whole team is like that, it's on the coach.

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      • #33
        Triano needs to go.

        His defenders keep saying "it's not his fault, give him time". There is some truth to the comment that it's not his fault - no coach could turn this team into a serious contender - but that doesn't mean he deserves more time.

        Despite a good background, a reputation of knowing the game, and experience at the highest level, Triano still routinely makes bad coaching decisions. Questionable substitutions, poor use of timeouts, an inability to make anyone on the team play defense... and what was that childish BS tonight at the end of the Pacers game? Triano might make an excellent assistant, but he's not cut out to be a head coach in the NBA any more than Bargs can carry a team or Amir is destined to be the next Raptors all-star.

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        • #34
          Arsenalist wrote: View Post
          If they do hire a new coach, he needs to have much greater say in what kind of players are being brought in, kept and shipped out. Getting a new coach should be about adopting a particular philosophy and then sticking to it, and it has to align with the GM's philosophy. It's not about getting a new coach, it's about whether you trust BC to hire the right coach.

          Add to that this:

          Has BC even in the last 5 years showed that he is willing to adopt a philosophy ( as you put it) and stick to it !!!

          To me, he makes trade for the rush that he gets from it. He gets an intoxicating high from his trade and that is about it.

          Getting another Coach under BC is just a mistake. BC needs to go and after he is gone, the New GM can bring in his own coach and hopefully trade some of these guys away and build a real team.

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          • #35
            Matt52 wrote: View Post
            Not what I would be looking for but to each their own.

            I was attempting to highlight the fact you are advocating BC bringing in strong defenders in one sentence and in the next overpaying Jamal Crawford who is one of the worst defenders at guard in the league.
            no again, if you improve your reading comprehension skills, you would understand that i said in the exact words:

            "im pretty sure BC has him high on the list of players to try to recruit for next year."

            not that I ME karim_nasir want crawford, but i think BC has him high on a list of FA's (sorry...free agents) to recruit next year.

            the sentence after that was BC justifying the signing by saying "hey he scores 20 pts a game, takes horrible shots, and plays no D. LETS SIGN HIM UP

            meaning he fits everything BC looks for when signing players examples include kapono, turkoglu, calderon, bargnani, kleiza...etc.

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            • #36
              That Jason Kapono signing was a master pice, I tell ya

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              • #37
                All of the pre-season predictions were that the Raptors would be in for a dreadful season. No pundits said "This team is a winner!! Just make sure the coach doesn't get in the way and screw things up." They said this team had woefully little talent. And that's exactly what has been borne out. Seriously, no coach could have taken this bunch deep into the playoffs. They are what they are. So why act like its all JT's fault? Listen, no top coach or rising-star assistant is going to risk his reputation on this bunch of also rans. The Raptors have got to turn over their roster before they're going to get a sniff from any of the guys you are suggesting.

                Besides, didn't BC bring in PJ to turn the Raptors into defensive juggernauts? I imagine that wasn't JT's idea. Not sure if PJ is a bonafide NBA head coach but the man does know about defense. He just needs a team willing to carry out his schemes, and that ain't this team. The problem isn't JT and it isn't PJ. It's the guys on the the court when the clock starts running.

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                • #38
                  skeptical wrote: View Post
                  Triano needs to go.

                  His defenders keep saying "it's not his fault, give him time". There is some truth to the comment that it's not his fault - no coach could turn this team into a serious contender - but that doesn't mean he deserves more time.

                  Despite a good background, a reputation of knowing the game, and experience at the highest level, Triano still routinely makes bad coaching decisions. Questionable substitutions, poor use of timeouts, an inability to make anyone on the team play defense... and what was that childish BS tonight at the end of the Pacers game? Triano might make an excellent assistant, but he's not cut out to be a head coach in the NBA any more than Bargs can carry a team or Amir is destined to be the next Raptors all-star.
                  +1. Triano can be blamed for a number of issues this year. I bought into the 'he's good for the young talent and developing' which I now see as total BS considering the fact he is not playing the young players when options present themselves, appears to have no awareness of the games (timeouts, matchups, lineups, situational calls), for an X's/O's guy seems to have no ability to draw up plays out of a time out (fadeaway Bargnani 3pointer for the game anyone?), and is ridiculous with his substitutions. He is hurting the team development, but hey, let's go for the draft pick - 3rd now.

                  But I don't like mid-season firings so keep him until the end of it.

                  As for who to come in:
                  Would like van Gundy, definitely Nate McMillan (although the Lakers and Portland will be certainly ahead in line.), MAYBE Mike Brown.

                  NO NO NO: Larry Brown, O'brien, Woodsen.

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                  • #39
                    DonCarlos wrote: View Post
                    Uhhh, that was me that mentioned Jamal Crawford.

                    1 condition for bringing him in was that he would be the final piece.

                    The second detail was that he would make the Raptors a better defensive team by forcing them to play him in practice. He may not be a great example, but again, the Raps don't see anyone in practice with any more than average on-the-ball creativity.

                    The reason why I would want Triano fired is that he has not been able to get any incarnation of Raptors teams to play half-decent defence. Any player who arrives in Toronto regresses defensively. They don't put anyone on their butts, and they don't play with any killer instinct. If it was a few players like that, it's on those players. If the whole team is like that, it's on the coach.
                    Yeah, sorry about that. Got mixed up.

                    I don't think Crawford is a player who helps on D which is where the Raptors issues lie. DD defense is suspect right now and Calderon's is as well and Crawford is playing for his last contract plus Barbosa. There isn't a defender in the group. The O has been struggling of late but that is more due to injuries IMO.

                    Comment


                    • #40
                      karim_nasir wrote: View Post
                      no again, if you improve your reading comprehension skills, you would understand that i said in the exact words:

                      "im pretty sure BC has him high on the list of players to try to recruit for next year."

                      not that I ME karim_nasir want crawford, but i think BC has him high on a list of FA's (sorry...free agents) to recruit next year.

                      the sentence after that was BC justifying the signing by saying "hey he scores 20 pts a game, takes horrible shots, and plays no D. LETS SIGN HIM UP

                      meaning he fits everything BC looks for when signing players examples include kapono, turkoglu, calderon, bargnani, kleiza...etc.
                      Again with the insults? You are correct that I made a mistake in who replied to what. Sorry to you and DonCarlos for the mix up.

                      Comment


                      • #41
                        Keeper

                        He's doing a good job, progress isnt always messured in win / loss

                        Comment


                        • #42
                          "Are we getting the most out of this roster every given night?" Colangelo said. "That is what we're seeking to improve."

                          "It is safe to say that after the debacle that we all witnessed last night against Denver, a 39-point loss, not to mention several other incidents this early season where we gave up double-digit leads or had mental breakdowns, with respect to the effort on the court, you come to a point where you realize some of the things you want to see out on the court are not taking place," Colangelo said.

                          "There comes a time when you feel that the best way to improve a situation is to make a change at the top and a change in the voice."

                          This was said after firing Sam Mitchell in 2008. Where art thou Mr. Colangelo?

                          Your comments could be used against both you and Triano this year.

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                          • #43
                            sleepz wrote: View Post
                            "Are we getting the most out of this roster every given night?" Colangelo said. "That is what we're seeking to improve."

                            "It is safe to say that after the debacle that we all witnessed last night against Denver, a 39-point loss, not to mention several other incidents this early season where we gave up double-digit leads or had mental breakdowns, with respect to the effort on the court, you come to a point where you realize some of the things you want to see out on the court are not taking place," Colangelo said.

                            "There comes a time when you feel that the best way to improve a situation is to make a change at the top and a change in the voice."

                            This was said after firing Sam Mitchell in 2008. Where art thou Mr. Colangelo?

                            Your comments could be used against both you and Triano this year.
                            HAH. Nice. Good find.

                            Comment


                            • #44
                              My two cents:

                              1. Keep Triano this year to ensure that we finish as low as possible without giving the impression of tanking.
                              2. Lawrence Frank would be a solid hire for next season. He's a good teacher for young players, great defensive coach who holds players accountable and he won't stab his GM or the organization in the back publicly. The guy sucked it up for 16 losses on his coaching record last year, when the Nets were in tank mode and he still left with dignity.

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                              • #45
                                sleepz wrote: View Post
                                "Are we getting the most out of this roster every given night?" Colangelo said. "That is what we're seeking to improve."

                                "It is safe to say that after the debacle that we all witnessed last night against Denver, a 39-point loss, not to mention several other incidents this early season where we gave up double-digit leads or had mental breakdowns, with respect to the effort on the court, you come to a point where you realize some of the things you want to see out on the court are not taking place," Colangelo said.

                                "There comes a time when you feel that the best way to improve a situation is to make a change at the top and a change in the voice."

                                This was said after firing Sam Mitchell in 2008. Where art thou Mr. Colangelo?

                                Your comments could be used against both you and Triano this year.
                                Good find. Different situations though - IMO. That was at the start of the season and playoffs were still a possibility and an expectation for the season. That is not the same expectation as this season.

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