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  • Looks like the Jays are trying to hit their way into the playoffs. Interesting.
    The name's Bond, James Bond.

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    • white men can't jump wrote: View Post
      What's the Jays' outfield look like in terms of prospects if Pompey is traded?

      It'd be nice if they got pitching, but at this point, is it worth it to keep trading away young prospects to try and address that issue as well? If they want to make a run, you're absolutely right and they can't really trade any of their active guys. But is it worth it just to try and outhit teams this season, and hope by next year Stroman, Sanchez and Norris stay healthy and develop as hoped?

      I really like this move though. Wasn't liking Reyes too much since he got here. Didn't really seem to fit in as hoped. Get a great player who, if healthy, will be one of the top players at his position for a ton more seasons.
      Still have Alford who has had a good year. Not familiar enough with the system but I think they have a couple of guys in lower levels who are prospects.

      I don't think they'll move the Norris and Pompey level players for a rental pitcher - it will have to be a guy with control - so it won't just be about 2015. I actually will be shocked if they get a deal for a pitcher done. As I mentioned earlier, the Royals paid big for Cueto and you could argue the Jays got Tulo for less. Maybe the price for pitching is too high to pay.

      EDIT: Reyes took way too much heat in Toronto. He hit the ball well and was still, despite his tire fire defense, one of the most productive SS in baseball.

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      • slaw wrote: View Post
        Still have Alford who has had a good year. Not familiar enough with the system but I think they have a couple of guys in lower levels who are prospects.

        I don't think they'll move the Norris and Pompey level players for a rental pitcher - it will have to be a guy with control - so it won't just be about 2015. I actually will be shocked if they get a deal for a pitcher done. As I mentioned earlier, the Royals paid big for Cueto and you could argue the Jays got Tulo for less. Maybe the price for pitching is too high to pay.

        EDIT: Reyes took way too much heat in Toronto. He hit the ball well and was still, despite his tire fire defense, one of the most productive SS in baseball.
        The thing that probably brought on too much heat is how weak his mental game seemed to be for a veteran. A lot of that tire fire defense was him screwing up fairly routine plays. And that would work on the hitting side too. He rarely showed patience and smarts at the plate. He can hit, but he is still too undisciplined. He was just frustrating to watch more than he was bad.

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        • white men can't jump wrote: View Post
          The thing that probably brought on too much heat is how weak his mental game seemed to be for a veteran. A lot of that tire fire defense was him screwing up fairly routine plays. And that would work on the hitting side too. He rarely showed patience and smarts at the plate. He can hit, but he is still too undisciplined. He was just frustrating to watch more than he was bad.
          I think fans - and Jerry Howarth - had a big hand in this.

          Reyes has three more errors than Tulowitzki this season. Three. BIG DEAL. And we give up Reyes AND Castro AND Hoffman AND Tinoco (another 20-year-old Jays pitching prospect with a high 90's fastball, by the way).

          NBC's headline reads: The Troy Tulowitzki trade might be the strangest deadline deal ever.

          Wow. Tulowitzki's a fine, fine player. But I hope members of RR will realize that this deal is a little bizarre. A team with the kind of offense we have, and the pitching we have, giving up three pitching prospects AND a legitimate offensive shortstop/lead-off hitter for ... a minor upgrade at shortstop and a 42-year-old relief arm.

          Maybe this deal looks better in 3 years, if Tulo is still what he is today. But even if he is - a BIG "if"- you had better PRAY that we haven't - literally - sold the farm on this.

          Because if we still have to get pitching help now (or for next year) after this, we'll have said "good-bye" to our well-stocked minor-league system.

          Strange. I have to say I'm a little disappointed in AA. And I've been a booster of his since forever ...

          But some Knuckle-heads in the stands must be appeased, it seems. And the Knuckle-head in the booth, too, it seems. (Quite a few other broadcasters tried to point out that 5 or 6 extra errors a season over the average is not worth excoriating a premier-hitting SS. But no traction. Every error (and most SS's make quite a few) became a "fiesta" of noisy discontent. Torches were lit.... It became a Larry Murphy thing)

          Anyway. Wow. Just ... Wow ...

          (And I've been listening to Howarth for 30+ years. Preferred him to Tom Cheek. Such a warm voice for a sunny day. But he really knee-capped Jose Reyes. It was really a surprise. And it seems Bautista - and maybe others - are pissed. I am. I'll never feel the same way about Howarth. I think he may have hastened his own departure. There's bad blood here.
          Last edited by Wild-ling#1; Thu Jul 30, 2015, 02:07 AM.

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          • Howarth was an idiot on the Reyes stuff but AA didn't trade Jose Reyes to appease Jerry Howarth or some stupid fans: he traded him to get the best shortstop in baseball. The idea that AA did a blockbuster trade like this to appease the radio play-by-play man is beyond ridiculous.

            Also, let's be clear: Tulo is a huge upgrade over Reyes. Reyes' defense was a tire fire. Errors? Really? Is this 1974? Reyes has trouble to getting to balls hit to his left and Lawrie and Donaldson have saved him from having to range into the hole, which is why his errors are so low: he isn't there to even try to make plays anymore.

            I like Reyes and thought he took way too much heat in Toronto but the deficiencies were becoming hard to defend and he's being replaced with a clearly better player whose bat will play at other positions even after he declines defensively.

            As for young pitching: Stroman, Hutch, Sanchez, Osuna, Norris, Boyd, Reid-Foley, Smoral, are all still around. There's lots left in the system.

            Comment


            • Holy hell.

              Sounds like a Price deal is done. Norris, Boyd and Labourt.

              Keeping both Alford and Pompey is nice. Tough to lose Norris but them's the breaks....

              EDIT: And it's done. David Price is a Jay. Fuck me. I am going drinking. What an awesome day to be a Jays fan.

              Double EDIT: LOL. Jays got Price for what Royals gave up for Cueto, though Norris might be a tick better than Finnegan. Nice.
              Last edited by slaw; Thu Jul 30, 2015, 01:09 PM.

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              • slaw wrote: View Post
                Howarth was an idiot on the Reyes stuff but AA didn't trade Jose Reyes to appease Jerry Howarth or some stupid fans: he traded him to get the best shortstop in baseball. The idea that AA did a blockbuster trade like this to appease the radio play-by-play man is beyond ridiculous.

                Also, let's be clear: Tulo is a huge upgrade over Reyes. Reyes' defense was a tire fire. Errors? Really? Is this 1974? Reyes has trouble to getting to balls hit to his left and Lawrie and Donaldson have saved him from having to range into the hole, which is why his errors are so low: he isn't there to even try to make plays anymore.

                I like Reyes and thought he took way too much heat in Toronto but the deficiencies were becoming hard to defend and he's being replaced with a clearly better player whose bat will play at other positions even after he declines defensively.

                As for young pitching: Stroman, Hutch, Sanchez, Osuna, Norris, Boyd, Reid-Foley, Smoral, are all still around. There's lots left in the system.
                Scratch Boyd and Norris, we got David Price!

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                • Wildling, have you ever heard of projection systems?

                  ZiPS is one of the best and pegs Tulo's value at +$40 million over the length of his contract.

                  ZiPS pegs Reyes- value at -$20 million.

                  $60 million is more than a minor upgrade.
                  If we knew half as much about coaching an NBA team as we think, we"d know twice as much as we do.

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                  • Mack North wrote: View Post
                    Scratch Boyd and Norris, we got David Price!
                    You may be scratching more names off, too.

                    Jeff Blair is saying MLB execs are telling him that they Jays are still shopping.

                    Comment


                    • Ok, I'm trying to avoid hyberbole here, but now with price and eventually stroman, is there a better team on paper than toronto? My god we are stacked with all stars like the early 2000s yanks and bo sox. AA has built this team up huge since since the first binging of prospects-for-star veterans began 3 offseasons ago. It has to start paying off right..right??
                      9 time first team all-RR, First Ballot Hall of Forum

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                      • KeonClark wrote: View Post
                        Ok, I'm trying to avoid hyberbole here, but now with price and eventually stroman, is there a better team on paper than toronto? My god we are stacked with all stars like the early 2000s yanks and bo sox. AA has built this team up huge since since the first binging of prospects-for-star veterans began 3 offseasons ago. It has to start paying off right..right??
                        We're going to lose in the Wild Card.

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                        • Mindlessness wrote: View Post
                          We're going to lose in the Wild Card.
                          Come on. Today we celebrate!

                          The abject disappointment won't come along for a couple months!

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                          • Mindlessness wrote: View Post
                            We're going to lose in the Wild Card.
                            I would love just the opportunity to play in that game. And now if we get there we have an actual ace to play that game.
                            As a 4 man playoff rotation, with this star studded batting order, I like price-stroman-beuhrle-dickey in a best of 7 against anyone.
                            9 time first team all-RR, First Ballot Hall of Forum

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                            • Mindlessness wrote: View Post
                              We're going to lose in the Wild Card.
                              We may, but with Price pitching and the hitters we have, I'd bet money on the Jays. I just hope to god we have a real MLB outfielder playing left by then - no Cola, Valencia or Carrera.
                              If we knew half as much about coaching an NBA team as we think, we"d know twice as much as we do.

                              Comment


                              • Wow. Jays have to make the playoffs now. They're only 2 games out.
                                The name's Bond, James Bond.

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