Amir to the Bench, Start AB-ED

[Joey]

AST/TO ratio doesn't really matter much when talking about your 4/5 though. Like, it's neat, but it's not the benchmark by which they should be evaluated.

But when you make points like 'he turns the ball over like crazy', you should be prepared to deal with stats that disprove this statement.

[Joey]

Bargs had foul trouble like crazy his 2nd and 3rd years, but he is over it. Amir needs to take that next step too.

How'd he get over it? He just stopped playing defense. haha

[Multipaul]

How'd he get over it? He just stopped playing defense. haha

That's not really fair to say. His man defense is good. And by the way, as much as you might fault his help defense, Amir is just as bad, if not worse. Considering he played for a tough Pistons squad, he should know better.

[Multipaul]

I don't know, I think amir is the raps most well rounded player. Foul trouble was a serious issue last year but he's curbed that problem for the most part this year. Also there's something to be said about a young team with a 4 who can run the floor like amir.

I'd like Bargs to stick around. I do think he's more of a PF than a C and he's got the moves of a top tier guard, unfortunately he's also got the rebounding numbers of one too.

if i had a chance to "fix" the raptors I'd move Bargs to the starting 4 and trade amir (I love the dude but his back problems are worrisome) I'd do what i could to pick up a strong defensive SF to help neutralize all the crazy good 3s in the NBA and last but not least I'd try to pick up a strong in the post and on the glass Centre. I think that would fill up some of the defensive gaps the raptors have and would actually give toronto a chance to make some noise in the east. If you guys are curious i'd say my untradeables in this scenario are Davis, Derozan, Bargs, Calderon and Bayless(i still got faith in this kid).


Any good Cs or SFs coming up for free agency this summer?

I agree with you, i like Amir, but we have a lot of bigs that need nurturing.

There are quite a few C's on the market this summer.

[Joey]

That's not really fair to say. His man defense is good. And by the way, as much as you might fault his help defense, Amir is just as bad, if not worse. Considering he played for a tough Pistons squad, he should know better.

I know, I know. I'm a Bargs supporter, just a wee Joke.
His man-defense has significantly taken a step back though. At least before I could say he was top-20 in the league in Blocks per game. Now he doesn't even offer that.

[Multipaul]

I know, I know. I'm a Bargs supporter, just a wee Joke.
His man-defense has significantly taken a step back though. At least before I could say he was top-20 in the league in Blocks per game. Now he doesn't even offer that.

Listen, we are talking about who should start with Bargs- Ed or Amir. Ed is obviously the better choice, that's all I am saying.

[webcrawler89]

It's too soon to start talking about starting Davis next year, we have to see how much he improves during the remainder of the season, and next year in preseason. Lets face it, Amir is out there earning his contract and playing hard, and he's been working on those fouls, there have been games when he's been comfortably playing in the 4th quarter. Not to mention that right now his shooting selection, FG% and FT% are quite high. I personally like him starting and Ed coming off the bench, especially since I think Ed is someone who might be injury prone.

[pran]

rearanging the deck chairs on the titanic to be honest, both amir and davis are playing well and seem to be thriving in the way things are set up now, they might win 1 or 2 more games by changing the starters...or they might not. What IS certain is that bargs does not fit in long term with this team, i would be very surprised if ii see him next year past the trade deadline.

[Tim W.]

I know, I know. I'm a Bargs supporter, just a wee Joke.
His man-defense has significantly taken a step back though. At least before I could say he was top-20 in the league in Blocks per game. Now he doesn't even offer that.

Bargnani is a below average man-to-man defender. This has to be the most overrated aspect of his game. He'll have one good game in 10 defending his man and THAT'S the game that people seem to remember. The thing with Bargnani is that he defends adequately in certain specific situations. He defends slower, back to the basket players who don't like to face up much and go around their defender. Normally, he's pretty poor, but people just remember a game like last year against Tim Duncan and assume that is the norm when it is not.

And he's possibly one of the worst bigs in the entire league at help defense.

And to say that Amir is possibly worse at either man-to-man or help defense is possibly the most ridiculous comment I've ever heard (no, I realize it wasn't you that said it). I'm sorry, but you make yourself look like you either know nothing about basketball or you will outright lie in order to try and advance your argument. Neither one makes you look good.

And this whole argument is pretty flawed because it's based solely on one game. For the most part, lately, Amir has been able to stay out of foul trouble, which is why he's been able to average 30 mpg since New Years.

Bargnani is a better player to bring off the bench because he can't defend or rebound and if he's not scoring, he's a complete liability. Of course, that would probably bring down his trade value.

[Multipaul]

Bargnani is a below average man-to-man defender. This has to be the most overrated aspect of his game. He'll have one good game in 10 defending his man and THAT'S the game that people seem to remember. The thing with Bargnani is that he defends adequately in certain specific situations. He defends slower, back to the basket players who don't like to face up much and go around their defender. Normally, he's pretty poor, but people just remember a game like last year against Tim Duncan and assume that is the norm when it is not.

And he's possibly one of the worst bigs in the entire league at help defense.

And to say that Amir is possibly worse at either man-to-man or help defense is possibly the most ridiculous comment I've ever heard (no, I realize it wasn't you that said it). I'm sorry, but you make yourself look like you either know nothing about basketball or you will outright lie in order to try and advance your argument. Neither one makes you look good.

And this whole argument is pretty flawed because it's based solely on one game. For the most part, lately, Amir has been able to stay out of foul trouble, which is why he's been able to average 30 mpg since New Years.

Bargnani is a better player to bring off the bench because he can't defend or rebound and if he's not scoring, he's a complete liability. Of course, that would probably bring down his trade value.

Bargs is clutch. Amir fouls and puts his team in jeopardy. He is mediocre in all aspects except that intangible "hustle".

[Apollo]

Hey, did you see early in the game when Randy Foye absolutely blew by DeMar DeRozan and finished with a big dunk?

Then did you see DeMar turn around and look at Amir and say, “where the bleep were you?”

And Amir took full responsibility for blowing the help, he turned to DeRozan and said, ‘yep, you’re right’ and things were all well and good.

While that’s not quite the kind of “communication” coaches want (they’d rather it comes before the uncontested dunk, you know) at least there was recognition that something bad had happened and responsibility taken.

Source: Doug Smith's Blog

[Multipaul]

Source: Doug Smith's Blog

Yup, dudes fouls alot. Even 2nd year players call him out.

[Tim W.]

Source: Doug Smith's Blog

The difference is that he's usually there. Bargnani is not.

[RaptorsFan4Life]

Listen, we are talking about who should start with Bargs- Ed or Amir. Ed is obviously the better choice, that's all I am saying.

How is he the obvious better choice?

FT Shooting: Amir
Jump shop: Amir
Overall Offense: Amir
Reb: Amir (by a bit)
BLK: Ed
Def: Amir (Ed is good but he gets pushed around)

And what you said about fouling is completely untrue. Amir has been doing a MUCH better job of handling fouls as of late.

BTW Amir has been in the league 5 years but has really only got to play the last year and this year.

[Multipaul]

How is he the obvious better choice?

FT Shooting: Amir
Jump shop: Amir
Overall Offense: Amir
Reb: Amir (by a bit)
BLK: Ed
Def: Amir (Ed is good but he gets pushed around)

And what you said about fouling is completely untrue. Amir has been doing a MUCH better job of handling fouls as of late.

BTW Amir has been in the league 5 years but has really only got to play the last year and this year.

LOL, come on man, Amir and Bargs is apples and oranges. Bargs is on a much higher level, he is a "go to" guy, puts up like 30 pts a game. You can't even compare.

PS- if Amir played better in DET he wouldve got more playing time.