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  • Matt52 wrote: View Post
    hmmmmmmm... name five teams, did it. What more do you want.

    If you wanted playoff teams you should have asked for it. None would have been the answer.

    I would like to see a quote taken from anything I typed stating JJ is a legit starter in the league. Could he develop? Maybe, a big one at that, but given just turning 24 and 2nd year in league with little to no PT in first two years, it is not outside the realm of possibility with the right coach in the right system.

    If you look back at my comments on the forum you'll see I have said numerous times the Raps have starters who should be backups, back ups who should be third string, and third strings who would struggle to stay in the league elsewhere.

    Opinions are cool but when one presents opinions as fact, lack information to back up opinions, or make up statements to prove positions, credibility is lost and one gets relegated to the troll bin. You have a different perspective that is valued while maybe not agreed with - but that is why we are here. I hope you can stay rational enough to stay relevant in discussion.
    There's a reason I put him on ignore.
    Read my blog, The Picket Fence. Guaranteed to make you think or your money back!
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    • Matt52 wrote: View Post
      hmmmmmmm... name five teams, did it. What more do you want.
      And I gave you the reasons why being a starter on this those does not mean anything and does not say anything about the quality of the player . But it seems like you can not see the simple logic here and hence enough time wasted on you. You can not teach a Chimpanzee how to fly an airplane despite breaking it down for him and making it very simple.

      The rest of your post is pure non-sense not worth responding.
      Last edited by Raptor4Ever; Sun Apr 3, 2011, 03:34 PM.

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      • Tim W. wrote: View Post
        There's a reason I put him on ignore.
        Oh, Timmy, you put me on your ignore list because you simply did not have the basketball knowledge or the wit to have a debate with me. So you took the easy path and buried your head in the sand.

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        • Raptor4Ever wrote: View Post
          And I gave you the reasons why being a starter on this those does not mean anything and does not say anything about the quality of the player

          The rest of your post is pure non-sense not worth responding.
          The reasons why being a starter does not mean anything on those teams is not the question you originally asked.

          Is the bolded section because there is logic and thought put in to the response without lowering myself to disrespectful comments or insinuations directed towards you because we have a difference of opinion?

          The rest of my post is at the very heart of the thread. The fact you do not with to discuss opinions supported by facts means, to me, you do not wish to have rational discussions. In doing this it would appear, to me, you would much rather turn your attention from differing views and lose the possibility of enlightenment - which has happened to me here numerous times at RR - and stick with preconceived notions and opinions that are viewed as all or nothing, right or wrong, my way or the highway. That is cool if it is what you want but the conversations can get extremely lonely after a while.
          Last edited by mcHAPPY; Sun Apr 3, 2011, 03:44 PM.

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          • Raptor4Ever wrote: View Post
            Oh, Timmy, you put me on your ignore list because you simply did not have the basketball knowledge or the wit to have a debate with me. So you took the easy path and buried your head in the sand.
            Pot meet kettle, kettle pot.

            Matt52 wrote:
            hmmmmmmm... name five teams, did it. What more do you want.
            Raptor4ever wrote:

            The rest of your post is pure non-sense not worth responding.
            in response to Matt52:

            hmmmmmmm... name five teams, did it. What more do you want.

            If you wanted playoff teams you should have asked for it. None would have been the answer.

            I would like to see a quote taken from anything I typed stating JJ is a legit starter in the league. Could he develop? Maybe, a big one at that, but given just turning 24 and 2nd year in league with little to no PT in first two years, it is not outside the realm of possibility with the right coach in the right system.

            If you look back at my comments on the forum you'll see I have said numerous times the Raps have starters who should be backups, back ups who should be third string, and third strings who would struggle to stay in the league elsewhere.

            Opinions are cool but when one presents opinions as fact, lack information to back up opinions, or make up statements to prove positions, credibility is lost and one gets relegated to the troll bin. You have a different perspective that is valued while maybe not agreed with - but that is why we are here. I hope you can stay rational enough to stay relevant in discussion.
            Last edited by mcHAPPY; Sun Apr 3, 2011, 03:42 PM.

            Comment


            • Matt52 wrote: View Post
              Is that because there is logic and thought put in to the response without lowering myself to disrespectful comments or insinuations directed towards you because we have a difference of opinion?
              yah yah yah .....

              You know you lost the debate and now are crying wolf that I disrespected you. You might want to add me to your ignore list like your Pal Timmy, believe me, life will be much easier when there is not someone who can point to fallacy of your logic in every step of the way. Ask your Pal Timmy and he will confirm.

              But I have a little good news for you. I am off to Europe for 4 weeks in about 2 hours so will not be posting for the reminder of the season. So you and Timmy can keep drooling over Amir and JJ and bashing AB

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              • Raptor4Ever wrote: View Post
                yah yah yah .....

                You know you lost the debate and now are crying wolf that I disrespected you. You might want to add me to your ignore list like your Pal Timmy, believe me, life will be much easier when there is not someone who can point to fallacy of your logic in every step of the way. Ask your Pal Timmy and he will confirm.

                But I have a little good news for you. I am off to Europe for 4 weeks in about 2 hours so will not be posting for the reminder of the season. So you and Timmy can keep drooling over Amir and JJ and bashing AB
                We'll have to agree to disagree. Personally, I've felt no disrespect nor do I feel our discussion has enlightened me with an opposing view that might cause me to question my line of thinking or logic. If anything it only reaffirms.

                Do not worry, I will not put you on ignore. I do read just about all posts from all posters in the Everything Raptors and Trade Proposal Forum.

                Have a great trip to Europe and make sure you contact your credit card company to let them know you are going over there. There is nothing worse than booking out of your hotel and the credit card company has put a hold on your account.

                Comment


                • Based on the fact this is his first real opportunity at playing, you could say he's having a better rookie year than DeMar did.

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                  • Tim W. wrote: View Post
                    There's a reason I put him on ignore.
                    I ignored him too. So you're not the only one. And isn't life soo much grander?!
                    I mean I still have to see how people respond to him, but at least I don't have to read it first hand.
                    Last edited by Joey; Sun Apr 3, 2011, 10:22 PM.

                    Comment


                    • jeff_hostetler wrote: View Post
                      And if jumpshooting is what's holding him back, he should consider himself fortunate as it's probably the easiest skill to develop.

                      Those numbers are indeed solid.

                      Compare the numbers of James Johnson as a Raptor to Josh Smith's numbers in his second year:

                      Johnson in 26.5 minutes per game:
                      8.7 points/.492% - 5.2 rebs - 2.5 asts - 1.4 blks - 1.1 stls

                      Smith in 32 minutes per game:
                      11.3 points/.425% - 6.6 rebs - 2.4 asts - 2.6 blks - 0.8 stls

                      Given the minutes advantage Smith had over Johnson, those stats are actually fairly comparable. In fact, at quick glance, it looks like James Johnson's numbers are actually better than Smith's were.
                      Jamario Moon's first season is eerily similar to James Johnson.

                      J.Moon (07-08)
                      8.5 pts/.485% - 6.2 rebs - 1.2 asts - 1.4 blks - 1.0 stls

                      J. Johnson
                      8.7 pts/.492% - 5.2 rebs - 2.5 asts - 1.4 blks - 1.1 stls


                      Basically, that's what JJ and J. Moon are. "Serviceable" 2nd-3rd tier wings, which is also one of the most common commodities to find in the NBA, especially recycled (see: Dorell Wright). The amount of fawning over JJ is probably more of an indication of the tremendous lack of talent on this year's Raptors squad, rather than any slight against JJ himself. Having said that, I do like his overall game, and would be pleasantly surprised and thrilled if he can take it to another level. He's decent bench player and a role player on a team with a couple of all-stars.
                      Last edited by golden; Sun Apr 3, 2011, 10:40 PM.

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                      • golden wrote: View Post
                        Jamario Moon's first season is eerily similar to James Johnson.

                        J.Moon (07-08)
                        8.5 pts/.485% - 6.2 rebs - 1.2 asts - 1.4 blks - 1.0 stls

                        J. Johnson
                        8.7 pts/.492% - 5.2 rebs - 2.5 asts - 1.4 blks - 1.1 stls


                        Basically, that's what JJ and J. Moon are. "Serviceable" 2nd-3rd tier wings, which is also one of the most common commodities to find in the NBA, especially recycled (see: Dorell Wright). The amount of fawning over JJ is probably more of an indication of the tremendous lack of talent on this year's Raptors squad, rather than any slight against JJ himself. Having said that, I do like his overall game, and would be pleasantly surprised and thrilled if he can take it to another level. He's decent bench player and a role player on a team with a couple of all-stars.
                        James Johnson's basketball IQ is higher and I think he's tougher than Moon. Moon avoided contact, a lot of the time, which was the big knock on him. He had the athleticism to be better, but didn't like to go to the hoop. I think it's a good comparison, but I think Johnson is the guy Moon should have tried to be.
                        Read my blog, The Picket Fence. Guaranteed to make you think or your money back!
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                        • Here are the first year stats of a guy who I think Johnson should pattern his game after. They had similar strengths and weaknesses at the same point in their careers.

                          20.9 mpg .463 fg% .174 3p% 3.8 rpg 2.1 apg 1.2 spg 0.7 bpg 7.9 ppg

                          Here are Johnson's this year, which in many ways is his rookie season:

                          19.2 mpg .466 fg% .217 3p% 3.7 rpg 2.0 apg 0.9 spg 1.1 bpg 6.4 ppg

                          As you see the numbers are very similar, and as I said their games were somewhat similar at the same stage.

                          Anyone care to guess who the first person is? One clue. He went on to appear in 7 All-Star games and appeared on more than a few All Defensive and All NBA teams.

                          (For those of you jumping to conclusions, NO I AM NOT SAYING THAT JOHNSON IS THE NEXT ____)
                          Read my blog, The Picket Fence. Guaranteed to make you think or your money back!
                          Follow me on Twitter.

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                          • Tim W. wrote: View Post
                            Here are the first year stats of a guy who I think Johnson should pattern his game after. They had similar strengths and weaknesses at the same point in their careers.

                            20.9 mpg .463 fg% .174 3p% 3.8 rpg 2.1 apg 1.2 spg 0.7 bpg 7.9 ppg

                            Here are Johnson's this year, which in many ways is his rookie season:

                            19.2 mpg .466 fg% .217 3p% 3.7 rpg 2.0 apg 0.9 spg 1.1 bpg 6.4 ppg

                            As you see the numbers are very similar, and as I said their games were somewhat similar at the same stage.

                            Anyone care to guess who the first person is? One clue. He went on to appear in 7 All-Star games and appeared on more than a few All Defensive and All NBA teams.

                            (For those of you jumping to conclusions, NO I AM NOT SAYING THAT JOHNSON IS THE NEXT ____)
                            Pippen?

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                            • JoePanini wrote: View Post
                              Pippen?
                              Wow. I thought it would be a little more difficult than that. That's obviously right.

                              Now, I don't think James Johnson has the potential to be Scottie Pippen, but I think he really needs to look at Scottie's game because their skills are so similar. Pippen had an awful jumpshot coming into the league, but became a very good one. Johnson has the ability to become a very good player, if he works on his weaknesses and doesn't try to do too much. Johnson's strength is his ability to do a bit of everything. He just needs to work on those things he doesn't do all that well, at the moment.
                              Read my blog, The Picket Fence. Guaranteed to make you think or your money back!
                              Follow me on Twitter.

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                              • I don't like the Jamario Moon comparisons for two reasons:

                                The first is that Moon was already something like 27 or 28 when he got his contract with the Raps. Not only had he spent his prime development years playing against non-NBA players, but I think he was one of those guys who got his contract, then checked out. I never saw in him any kind of drive to get better, no real competitiveness, nor high understanding of the NBA. Probably why it took him so long to get in the league, and why he now plays for the Cavs. J.Johnson is a tough mother lover. A fighter and competitor. That kind of disposition only helps you to get better.

                                The second is that I hate Jamario Moon (as a player).

                                Also, it just occurred to me that the Raps seem to have a top-notch shooting coach (English? I can't remember). Derozan has shown crazy improvement. Ditto for Calderon. Amir Johnson is now a somewhat solid mid-range shooter. Ed Davis was awful just months ago, but now is starting to be able to knock down the J. It's not crazy to think that J.Johnson can become a decent shooter. Even developing the ability to consistently knock down the spot up 3.

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