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Tim W. wrote: View PostI thought New York stole Anthony Randolph away from the Warriors, where I blamed his lack of play on Don Nelson's insanity. After another half season of him not playing, I really think it's him. Anthony Randolph is the perfect example of the high skilled player who never seems to "get it" and is constantly gambled on by GMs looking for a gamble. Benoit Benjamin played 14 seasons in the NBA, for 9 teams and only 2 of those teams made the playoffs. Bad teams usually gamble on these types of players because you have to be desperate to take on guys like this. Minnesota already has Randolph, Beasley and Milicic. That's why they're my favourite to eventually trade for Bargnani. Bargnani has a better attitude than a lot of those guys, but he probably will never "get it".
that would be an awesome team with bargnani!!! on paper!!!! hahaha
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Tim W. wrote: View PostI thought New York stole Anthony Randolph away from the Warriors, where I blamed his lack of play on Don Nelson's insanity. After another half season of him not playing, I really think it's him. Anthony Randolph is the perfect example of the high skilled player who never seems to "get it" and is constantly gambled on by GMs looking for a gamble. Benoit Benjamin played 14 seasons in the NBA, for 9 teams and only 2 of those teams made the playoffs. Bad teams usually gamble on these types of players because you have to be desperate to take on guys like this. Minnesota already has Randolph, Beasley and Milicic. That's why they're my favourite to eventually trade for Bargnani. Bargnani has a better attitude than a lot of those guys, but he probably will never "get it".
As i mentioned, since we can possibly draft a good SF this year, and lets just agree that Bargs is pretty much not going anywhere, would it have made more sense for the Raps, long term, to have gotten Randolph who can play the 4 and 5 to play alongside Bargnani? 2 years younger than JJ and pretty much the same salary structure?
If it doesnt work they can easily trade or waive him, same with JJ.Last edited by TheGloveinRapsUniform; Mon Mar 7, 2011, 04:25 PM.
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tbihis wrote: View PostWould you prefer JJ over Randolph?
As i mentioned, since we can possibly draft a good SF this year, and lets just agree that Bargs is pretty much not going anywhere, would it have made more sense for the Raps, long term, to have gotten Randolph who can play the 4 and 5 to play alongside Bargnani? 2 years younger than JJ and pretty much the same salary structure?
If it doesnt work they can easily trade or waive him, same with JJ.Read my blog, The Picket Fence. Guaranteed to make you think or your money back!
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WJF wrote: View PostHe is a 4, I think we are pretty set there with Amir and Davis, better to roll the dice on James.
it is a bit of a retorical question, that you asked.
plus, there were swirls that if demar wasn't here, johnson would have already been here.If Your Uncle Jack Helped You Off An Elephant, Would You Help Your Uncle Jack Off An Elephant?
Sometimes, I like to buy a book on CD and listen to it, while reading music.
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tbihis wrote: View Postthis is a tough issue. if it was jerry sloan or phil jackson then id definitely side with them but Mike D'Antoni, i really dont have much respect for him, but thats just me.
I dont have the articles to back this up, but i know D'Antoni has had issues with pretty much everybody, from players, to management to personnel.
i also think it was a tough situation for Randolph, if you know youre one of the highly touted up and comers in the league, and the coach gives you 5 mins a game then i would probably pout too. i mean common, its not the like the knicks are loaded with talent. he should at least be backing up amare or playing over turiaf.
Notice I did not bring up "defense" once! He does have shot blocking ability but so does JJ to a degree. Now if JJ can improve his shot like DD did then we may have something in him.
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tbihis wrote: View PostHe can play the 4 and 5“The saving of our world from pending doom will come, not through the complacent adjustment of the conforming majority, but through the creative maladjustment of a nonconforming minority.” - Martin Luther King
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Tim W. wrote: View PostI thought New York stole Anthony Randolph away from the Warriors, where I blamed his lack of play on Don Nelson's insanity. After another half season of him not playing, I really think it's him. Anthony Randolph is the perfect example of the high skilled player who never seems to "get it" and is constantly gambled on by GMs looking for a gamble. Benoit Benjamin played 14 seasons in the NBA, for 9 teams and only 2 of those teams made the playoffs. Bad teams usually gamble on these types of players because you have to be desperate to take on guys like this. Minnesota already has Randolph, Beasley and Milicic. That's why they're my favourite to eventually trade for Bargnani. Bargnani has a better attitude than a lot of those guys, but he probably will never "get it".
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DunkinDerozan wrote: View PostSeriously dude enough with your Bargnani love affair. You alwayse need to bring his name up even in a totally unrelated post. Listening to your Bargnani bashing is funny only because there is a perfect negative corelation the more you keep insulting him the better he plays. I just don't understand some of your ridicioulous claims about his game heres a few off the top of my head: worst rebounding center of all time, biggest problem onour team, most likely to be traded to minnesota lool.. everytime its something new. It just amazes me because we all watch the same games yet your analysis about his game is so delusional its almost laughable.“The saving of our world from pending doom will come, not through the complacent adjustment of the conforming majority, but through the creative maladjustment of a nonconforming minority.” - Martin Luther King
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Bendit wrote: View PostActually it is precisely the reason that I think there is something wrong (basket ball wise) with AR. If he cant play for 2 crazee offensive coaches like Dantoni & Nelson who both give the greenlight to shoot from 25 ft with 23 secs rem. on the clock ...it makes me ponder. I had also heard that with Dantoni he had recurring positional brain farts on offense so he probably is a statue in the half court sets.
I've always thought that he simply needs to find a role that fits him with a good coaching fit in order to make some use of his physical abilities. Even if he never fully gets it, having a freakish athlete that rebounds, blocks shots, finishes high above the rim and has good potential for a consistent jumper is always great as your 3rd, 4th or 5th best player, at any position. If he adds an ability to learn to play help D (which neither Nelson or D'Antoni has likely spent much time on) or be a consistent offensive match-up problem then that's a very useful player.
So does he fit with the Raps? From a coaching standpoint, no. Development maybe, but I don't see Triano as a great coach for a personality like Randolph's. I also don't see any vets besides the probably-gone Evans that would be a steadying force for him. Though if you could hire Oak to toughen him up, then do it. Get him to work with Bargs too.
On the floor I could see it working, but only once DeRozan has improved his consistency from long range. I've always seen Randolph as a 3, that's where I'd want him to play as a Raptor. If you've got DeRozan, Bargs and Calderon/point-guard-of-the-future shooting the 3 and one of Amir or Ed working near the basket, there's a lot of room to work the midrange game, crash the boards, and post up shorter players. And he brings what the raps need from a 3 on the defensive end so long as he can learn to exert the required effort and move his feet. That's part of why I don't think Triano is the right coach for him. He'd also be great for guarding stretch 4s.
I was disappointed the Raps didn't pick him up, but not surprised and not sure it would have worked out well if they had. I like what Johnson gives them until they can find a better long-term solution.
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DunkinDerozan wrote: View PostSeriously dude enough with your Bargnani love affair. You alwayse need to bring his name up even in a totally unrelated post. Listening to your Bargnani bashing is funny only because there is a perfect negative corelation the more you keep insulting him the better he plays. I just don't understand some of your ridicioulous claims about his game heres a few off the top of my head: worst rebounding center of all time, biggest problem onour team, most likely to be traded to minnesota lool.. everytime its something new. It just amazes me because we all watch the same games yet your analysis about his game is so delusional its almost laughable.
As for my claims, maybe you could point to where I said he was the worst rebounding 7 footer of all time? I remember someone saying that, but it wasn't me. He wasn't the worst rebounding 7 footers, but statistics show he was ONE OF THE worst rebounding 7 footers of all time. There is plenty of evidence to support that claim. If you have evidence to the contrary, please point me to it. I'd be happy to take a look.
As for him being the biggest problem on the Raptors, I would agree with that. He's certainly not the only problem, but I'd argue he is the biggest problem because he plays the most minutes, and seems to be an important foundation to the team despite his game being so fatally flawed. Instead of just "lol"ing, maybe you could actually try and debate me on that point.
And I never said he was most likely to be traded to Minnesota. I said it's my favourite trade. Again, there's a big difference.
I think the biggest difference between you and I, besides our opinions about Bargnani's game, is that I have the ability to debate and disagree with someone without insulting them. You, apparently, do not. And while you may not like my criticisms of Bargnani, I would say far more people are bothered by posters who insult people simply because they disagree with them.Read my blog, The Picket Fence. Guaranteed to make you think or your money back!
Follow me on Twitter.
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I rarely bring up Bargnani's name in unrelated posts. There are A LOT more people that do that. And why on earth do you think I insult him? I don't recall ever insulting him? I've, in fact, defended him against those I felt unfairly insulted him (like when he was called a cancer). I've never said anything personal about Bargnani. Ever. What I have done plenty of is criticize him and his game. There's a big difference, and one you apparently don't understand.
In this case I m not talking about personal insults. I never expected you to call him ugly, or his mom fat. I am talking about professionally insulting him, which to me are the same but I’ll leave that for now. When you repeatedly mention a players weaknesses call them the worst rebounder the biggest problem on the team etc to me that doesn’t really sound like you’re defending his game. If you were defended his game you would point to player strengths such as improved scorer, versatile big man and opportunity to be very helpful player moving forward.
As for my claims, maybe you could point to where I said he was the worst rebounding 7 footer of all time? I remember someone saying that, but it wasn't me. He wasn't the worst rebounding 7 footers, but statistics show he was ONE OF THE worst rebounding 7 footers of all time. There is plenty of evidence to support that claim. If you have evidence to the contrary, please point me to it. I'd be happy to take a look.
Firstly, team statistics relating to individuals are not helpful measures. By that I mean rebounding is a result of team input but is tracked as an individual output. I don’t know what data you used to base your claims against but you’d think just by watching a game one wouldn’t have to use such data to prove a point, unless they had some other motives to draw attention to such as wanting a player to be traded. And last time I checked statements relating to “all time” are used for retired players.
As for him being the biggest problem on the Raptors, I would agree with that. He's certainly not the only problem, but I'd argue he is the biggest problem because he plays the most minutes, and seems to be an important foundation to the team despite his game being so fatally flawed. Instead of just "lol"ing, maybe you could actually try and debate me on that point.
Here are my civilized reasons for disagreeing with you about him being our biggest problem.
I listen to and read player / coach’s interviews. Their opinions should be valued more highly the average fan and just based on hearing what they think about his game would make me believe he is a solution player. Here are some opposing players and coaches I remember who have spoke very highly about his game. Lebron James, Dirk Nowitsky, Brook Lopez, Big Z, every opposing coach whose been interviewed. However popular opinion shouldn’t be the determine factor because Id surely loose that battle, seems media/blogger opinions are more important these days. So let’s talk about his game. Well what can’t he do on offence he can step back hit the three, pull up hit the jumper, pump fake drive and dunk in his opponents face, post up a shorter defender, drive by taller one. Did i miss anything? His individual defense is excellent. He moves his feet well, contests every shot and doesn’t foul. His team defense is developing. He shows hard on screens, switches better and blocks some shots. Team defending is one area I would say needs improvement, but you can say that about the majority of NBA players.
And I never said he was most likely to be traded to Minnesota. I said it's my favourite trade. Again, there's a big difference.
What happened to your belief that defense and only defense wins championships? Yet you’re willing to trade for a combination of Beasley, Milicic and or Randolph. Those players who are softer than vanilla ice.
I think the biggest difference between you and I, besides our opinions about Bargnani's game, is that I have the ability to debate and disagree with someone without insulting them. You, apparently, do not. And while you may not like my criticisms of Bargnani, I would say far more people are bothered by posters who insult people simply because they disagree with them.
Unless you’re an aspiring analyst for the NBA you shouldn’t be personally insulted by my criticism towards your criticism of another player’s game. And even if you were personally offended you should have only brought it up if you were certain that David Stern would be reading my post. You say that you have never insulted Bargnani on a personal level, yet now you’re saying I am insulting you on a personal level make up your mind son.Last edited by DunkinDerozan; Tue Mar 8, 2011, 08:05 PM.
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DunkinDerozan wrote: View PostI rarely bring up Bargnani's name in unrelated posts. There are A LOT more people that do that. And why on earth do you think I insult him? I don't recall ever insulting him? I've, in fact, defended him against those I felt unfairly insulted him (like when he was called a cancer). I've never said anything personal about Bargnani. Ever. What I have done plenty of is criticize him and his game. There's a big difference, and one you apparently don't understand.
In this case I m not talking about personal insults. I never expected you to call him ugly, or his mom fat. I am talking about professionally insulting him, which to me are the same but I’ll leave that for now. When you repeatedly mention a players weaknesses call them the worst rebounder the biggest problem on the team etc to me that doesn’t really sound like you’re defending his game. If you were defended his game you would point to player strengths such as improved scorer, versatile big man and opportunity to be very helpful player moving forward.
As for my claims, maybe you could point to where I said he was the worst rebounding 7 footer of all time? I remember someone saying that, but it wasn't me. He wasn't the worst rebounding 7 footers, but statistics show he was ONE OF THE worst rebounding 7 footers of all time. There is plenty of evidence to support that claim. If you have evidence to the contrary, please point me to it. I'd be happy to take a look.
Firstly, team statistics relating to individuals are not helpful measures. By that I mean rebounding is a result of team input but is tracked as an individual output. I don’t know what data you used to base your claims against but you’d think just by watching a game one wouldn’t have to use such data to prove a point, unless they had some other motives to draw attention to such as wanting a player to be traded. And last time I checked statements relating to “all time” are used for retired players.
As for him being the biggest problem on the Raptors, I would agree with that. He's certainly not the only problem, but I'd argue he is the biggest problem because he plays the most minutes, and seems to be an important foundation to the team despite his game being so fatally flawed. Instead of just "lol"ing, maybe you could actually try and debate me on that point.
Here are my civilized reasons for disagreeing with you about him being our biggest problem.
I listen to and read player / coach’s interviews. Their opinions should be valued more highly the average fan and just based on hearing what they think about his game would make me believe he is a solution player. Here are some opposing players and coaches I remember who have spoke very highly about his game. Lebron James, Dirk Nowitsky, Brook Lopez, Big Z, every opposing coach whose been interviewed. However popular opinion shouldn’t be the determine factor because Id surely loose that battle, seems media/blogger opinions are more important these days. So let’s talk about his game. Well what can’t he do on offence he can step back hit the three, pull up hit the jumper, pump fake drive and dunk in his opponents face, post up a shorter defender, drive by taller one. Did i miss anything? His individual defense is excellent. He moves his feet well, contests every shot and doesn’t foul. His team defense is developing. He shows hard on screens, switches better and blocks some shots. Team defending is one area I would say needs improvement, but you can say that about the majority of NBA players.
And I never said he was most likely to be traded to Minnesota. I said it's my favourite trade. Again, there's a big difference.
What happened to your belief that defense and only defense wins championships? Yet you’re willing to trade for a combination of Beasley, Milicic and or Randolph. Those players who are softer than vanilla ice.
I think the biggest difference between you and I, besides our opinions about Bargnani's game, is that I have the ability to debate and disagree with someone without insulting them. You, apparently, do not. And while you may not like my criticisms of Bargnani, I would say far more people are bothered by posters who insult people simply because they disagree with them.
Unless you’re an aspiring analyst for the NBA you shouldn’t be personally insulted by my criticism towards your criticism of another player’s game. And even if you were personally offended you should have only brought it up if you were certain that David Stern would be reading my post. You say that you have never insulted Bargnani on a personal level, yet now you’re saying I am insulting you on a personal level make up your mind son.
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