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  • Nilanka wrote: View Post
    It's simply a by-product of superfans not acknowledging the significance of their favourite player's flaws.
    or armchair analysts trying to be overly critical (read, trying to sound smart) through the use of [useless] PER?

    Comment


    • p00ka wrote: View Post
      Matt52, I'm trying to reform myself in my attitude with you, but this kind of stuff makes it hard, man. Whether it was Bargnani, or now DeMar, you keep initiating the same arguments over and over again, which is exactly what my "burr in the saddle" has been with you, with a secondary gripe being this "I've had my fill" line coming when someone presents something factual that trips you. Sorry, but that's how it seems anyway.
      In fairness, this exact debate has been had probably a half dozen times (at least) since the midway point of this past season. Lots of opinions and statistics on both sides of the debate have been presented, giving strong, passionate arguments on both sides of the DeRozan coin. In past debates I was among the most vocal proponents of the "trade DeRozan" faction (for lack of a better term), but I have had no desire to get into it again.

      Posters are free to comb through past threads and pickup the past debates, rather than starting them anew. All the posts, opinions and statistics are there to read, analyze, discuss and debate... Matt52 (and others on both sides) have made their points several times over... I'd suggest reading through past threads and commenting on them to get those debates going again. Doing so will allow new perspectives to be heard and fresh debate to be had, all without having to repost opinions/arguments/statistics for the umpteenth time.
      Last edited by CalgaryRapsFan; Tue Aug 13, 2013, 01:52 PM.

      Comment


      • phez wrote: View Post
        or armchair analysts trying to be overly critical (read, trying to sound smart) through the use of [useless] PER?
        It's a stretch to say PER is useless. It just doesn't seem to work that well for wing players.

        According to PER JR Smith is better than Paul George.

        Comment


        • Xixak wrote: View Post
          Funny you seemed really eager to give long-winded responses in the "Signs of Tanking" thread.
          Is this the "Signs of Tanking" thread?

          Is this the same topic of conversation as there?

          I've given a number of long winded responses on a number of topics. The one in question, DeRozan, has been beat to death - which I acknowledge having played a large part in. I'm tired of it. You're a homer with a bigger man crush on DeRozan. That is cool. I've been wrong before and, hell, maybe I'm wrong now. We'll see.

          Comment


          • CalgaryRapsFan wrote: View Post
            In fairness, this exact debate has been had probably a half dozen times (at least) since the midway point of this past season. Lots of opinions and statistics on both sides of the debate have been presented, giving strong, passionate arguments on both sides of the DeRozan coin. In past debates I was among the most vocal proponents of the "trade DeRozan" faction (for lack of a better term), but I have had no desire to get into it again.

            Posters are free to comb through past threads and pickup the past debates, rather than starting them anew. All the posts, opinions and statistics are there to read, analyze, discuss and debate... Matt52 (and others on both sides) have made their points several times over... I'd suggest reading through past threads and commenting on them to get those debates going again. Doing so will allow new perspectives to be heard and fresh debate to be had, all without having to repost opinions/arguments/statistics for the umpteenth time.
            Give me a break dude, he's the one who started this whole debate and then couldn't finish it, so he used the cop-out that he's "tired" of repeating himself, when you know as well as I that nobody on here ever gets tired of sharing their opinion. When you speak to someone like this you should expect a response:

            Matt52 wrote: View Post
            Why bother?

            That doesn't change the fact he is an average at best offensive player who settles for long 2s and is a mediocre at best defensive player.

            That replied quote RIGHT THERE is the PERFECT example of the Raptor fan content with MEDIOCRITY and hoping for AVERAGE AT BEST. BOOM.

            I'm not happy to settle. If you are, you've picked the right team to cheer for it would appear.
            Matt52 wrote: View Post
            I've been called worse by better.... so there you go. But thanks anyways.

            My BOOM showed you're a fan of mediocrity. You have done nothing to show DeRozan is not what I say: an average at best SG who settles for long 2s and is mediocre on defense. You are striving for a below average player to become average to a little above while making 2x the average player and over 3x the median. You are the classic Raptor fan which I myself was for many years.

            You keep spinning whatever fantasies you need to convince yourself whatever about what DeRozan will become. I've been down this road. It doesn't end where you hope.

            Bold 1: So? And? Where is the Raptors Billups? Prince? Wallace? Sheed? Brown?

            Bold 2: I'm the one who is happy to go in whatever direction but would prefer to part with Lowry and Gay. Why do I care? Because the Raptors are screwed with DeRozan one way or another. If they tank, he's already shown he can't handle being the guy and does nothing to help the team now. If they compete, he doesn't mesh with the talent currently under contract.
            In response to these statements I presented facts that showed otherwise. Instead of a similar response I got:

            Matt52 wrote: View Post
            Circles. That is all this is. I'm tired of it. I bet others are too. We'll all see soon enough. I hope nothing but the best for DD but I'm not betting on it.
            Really?

            Comment


            • Matt52 wrote: View Post
              Is this the "Signs of Tanking" thread?

              Is this the same topic of conversation as there?

              I've given a number of long winded responses on a number of topics. The one in question, DeRozan, has been beat to death - which I acknowledge having played a large part in. I'm tired of it. You're a homer with a bigger man crush on DeRozan. That is cool. I've been wrong before and, hell, maybe I'm wrong now. We'll see.
              This is a DeMar DeRozan thread... if you don't want to respond to the evidence I presented with evidence to the contrary, then just leave.

              I also think it's hilarious that you assume I'm a DeMar homer just because I'm trying to defend him. He isn't even my favourite player on the team for starters. But if it makes you feel better to dismiss my arguments as homerism or satisfaction with mediocrity, then so be it. Just don't complain when I present facts that make you look clueless.

              Comment


              • p00ka wrote: View Post
                Matt52, I'm trying to reform myself in my attitude with you, but this kind of stuff makes it hard, man. Whether it was Bargnani, or now DeMar, you keep initiating the same arguments over and over again, which is exactly what my "burr in the saddle" has been with you, with a secondary gripe being this "I've had my fill" line coming when someone presents something factual that trips you. Sorry, but that's how it seems anyway.
                No problem, p00ka. I appreciate a civil response.

                But I'm really tired of the same arguments. Did I initiate? Possibly. Are people making the same comments over and over that I've replied to in the past? Possibly. Discussion is two ways. I've had my fill means the discussion is going in circles, in my opinion. I feel like I'm saying the same things over and over which you just confirmed. In fact, wasn't it you and Xixak just a few weeks ago telling me to quit? Well, here goes boys, I am quitting this topic. Nothing here has tripped me, I just no longer care to debate it.

                Question: was it Bargnani before this last season or Bargnani that showed up for this year? Reason being I recall you being very polite and in agreement with many of the things I typed whether in these forums or on the homepage. Unfortunately I had a revelation that there comes a point in time when a player is what he is. It really has changed my view on things. Hope and potential is good for a year or two and then it is you have what you have - especially when we get in to the 23/24 age range (barring major role change, trade, or coaching change). You seem to have taken quite negatively (as long as a number of other posters over the last 10 months or so) to this change in view.

                I'm sorry my new views are not relished and cheered by you. However I'm tired of cheering for a losing team and hoping for an average team. It is my opinion DeRozan is part of the problem moving forward given the numerous amount of games I've watched and statistics I've come across. It is also my opinion the majority have been so conditioned to losing that they are willing to throw away the chance of a lifetime (AS potential C just 21 years of age to build around) to MAYBE make a playoff berth.

                So here is another long winded response and hopefully I never enter a DeRozan discussion until the season starts.

                Comment


                • Trade him.
                  If Your Uncle Jack Helped You Off An Elephant, Would You Help Your Uncle Jack Off An Elephant?

                  Sometimes, I like to buy a book on CD and listen to it, while reading music.

                  Comment


                  • nilanka wrote: View Post
                    it's simply a by-product of superfans not acknowledging the significance of their favourite player's flaws.
                    my eyes and ears are burning!!!

                    Comment


                    • Matt52 wrote: View Post
                      No problem, p00ka. I appreciate a civil response.

                      But I'm really tired of the same arguments. Did I initiate? Possibly. Are people making the same comments over and over that I've replied to in the past? Possibly. Discussion is two ways. I've had my fill means the discussion is going in circles, in my opinion. I feel like I'm saying the same things over and over which you just confirmed. In fact, wasn't it you and Xixak just a few weeks ago telling me to quit? Well, here goes boys, I am quitting this topic. Nothing here has tripped me, I just no longer care to debate it.

                      Question: was it Bargnani before this last season or Bargnani that showed up for this year? Reason being I recall you being very polite and in agreement with many of the things I typed whether in these forums or on the homepage. Unfortunately I had a revelation that there comes a point in time when a player is what he is. It really has changed my view on things. Hope and potential is good for a year or two and then it is you have what you have - especially when we get in to the 23/24 age range (barring major role change, trade, or coaching change). You seem to have taken quite negatively (as long as a number of other posters over the last 10 months or so) to this change in view.

                      I'm sorry my new views are not relished and cheered by you. However I'm tired of cheering for a losing team and hoping for an average team. It is my opinion DeRozan is part of the problem moving forward given the numerous amount of games I've watched and statistics I've come across. It is also my opinion the majority have been so conditioned to losing that they are willing to throw away the chance of a lifetime (AS potential C just 21 years of age to build around) to MAYBE make a playoff berth.

                      So here is another long winded response and hopefully I never enter a DeRozan discussion until the season starts.
                      Wait hold up a second.

                      How does keeping DeRozan prevent us from building around/with Val?

                      Explain now.

                      Comment


                      • Xixak wrote: View Post
                        It's a stretch to say PER is useless. It just doesn't seem to work that well for wing players.

                        According to PER JR Smith is better than Paul George.
                        anyways im satisfied DD's TS% is better than JR Smith.

                        And Joe Johnson. And Andre Igoudala. And Luol Deng. And Josh Smith. Even Rudy Gay.

                        I call that a bargain if anything.

                        Comment


                        • Xixak wrote: View Post
                          Wait hold up a second.

                          How does keeping DeRozan prevent us from building around/with Val?

                          Explain now.
                          You know, I'm not taking sides here, but I think you need to step away from the keyboard the next time you are inclined to call anyone else out as a "douche" on this forum. The tone in many of your posts is as bad or worse than the people you are calling out... It's become pretty clear you have a particular ax to grind with Matt52, and it makes you look bad.

                          (ie. He never mentions Derozan as "preventing us from building around Val", just that he's "part of the problem" he sees with the current roster; you cherry-picked and changed what he said for the sole purpose of starting another argument...)
                          Definition of Statistics: The science of producing unreliable facts from reliable figures.

                          Comment


                          • Xixak wrote: View Post
                            It's a stretch to say PER is useless. It just doesn't seem to work that well for wing players.

                            According to PER JR Smith is better than Paul George.
                            According to PER, JR Smith has a better PER than Paul George. Individual people then extrapolate as they please.
                            "Stop eating your sushi."
                            "I do actually have a pair of Uggs."
                            "I've had three cups of green tea tonight. I'm wired. I'm absolutely wired."
                            - Jack Armstrong

                            Comment


                            • Xixak wrote: View Post
                              This is a DeMar DeRozan thread... if you don't want to respond to the evidence I presented with evidence to the contrary, then just leave.

                              I also think it's hilarious that you assume I'm a DeMar homer just because I'm trying to defend him. He isn't even my favourite player on the team for starters. But if it makes you feel better to dismiss my arguments as homerism or satisfaction with mediocrity, then so be it. Just don't complain when I present facts that make you look clueless.
                              I do know the Raptors were under .500 to end the year after trade.

                              Again if settling is your thing, awesome.


                              Personally I'm tired of hoping veterans improve to go to the next level or making excuses why they didn't do this or that. It is possible but is the rare exception.

                              Comment


                              • Matt52 wrote: View Post
                                I do know the Raptors were under .500 to end the year after trade.

                                Again if settling is your thing, awesome.


                                Personally I'm tired of hoping veterans improve to go to the next level or making excuses why they didn't do this or that. It is possible but is the rare exception.
                                I'm not settling on anything. I didn't even say we HAD to keep DeRozan.

                                You said he's a below-average player, yet have provided no proof for it.

                                Comment

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