Everything Derozan

[Chr1s1anL]

Here's another one - DeMar is on pace to score 20,000 points in his career.

How many players have scored 20,000+ points and haven't made the HOF?

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[DanH]

How many players have scored 20,000+ points and haven't made the HOF?

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Of eligible players? One. Tom Chambers. That's out of 30 all time 20,000+ pointers (that are eligible to be in the hall).

[Lupe]

Not that he has anything sort of similar in his game other than being a SG but I think DeMar could be a Reggie Miller type hall of famer. I know that Reggie in terms of advanced stats was hyper-efficient and better than DeMar, but I still think he could get in a similar way.

Reggie didn't really have a ton of individual accolades. 5 all-star games, 3 all-NBA 3rd teams. Never finished in the top 10 in MVP voting, no scoring titles, never broke 25ppg and only 18ppg career average. Wasn't particularly good defensively despite being on some great defensive Pacers teams, and never really stuffed the stat sheet. But what he did have was longevity and lots of time spent in the playoffs. Never won the title obviously but had a finals trip and a few conference finals multiple times. What really helped him I think was being with the Pacers his whole career and having several signature moments in the playoffs. Also he's a member of the 25K points club.

DeMar I think can have a resume similar to that and get in. On top of that he has the added bonus of winning gold with team USA.

[golden]

Not that he has anything sort of similar in his game other than being a SG but I think DeMar could be a Reggie Miller type hall of famer. I know that Reggie in terms of advanced stats was hyper-efficient and better than DeMar, but I still think he could get in a similar way.

Reggie didn't really have a ton of individual accolades. 5 all-star games, 3 all-NBA 3rd teams. Never finished in the top 10 in MVP voting, no scoring titles, never broke 25ppg and only 18ppg career average. Wasn't particularly good defensively despite being on some great defensive Pacers teams, and never really stuffed the stat sheet. But what he did have was longevity and lots of time spent in the playoffs. Never won the title obviously but had a finals trip and a few conference finals multiple times. What really helped him I think was being with the Pacers his whole career and having several signature moments in the playoffs. Also he's a member of the 25K points club.

DeMar I think can have a resume similar to that and get in. On top of that he has the added bonus of winning gold with team USA.

You just convinced me that Reggie Miller should not be in the Hall of Fame. That's a really weak resume.

[tDotted]

Here's another one - DeMar is on pace to score 20,000 points in his career.

Antawn Jamison has 20k and I doubt he has a chance

[Lupe]

You just convinced me that Reggie Miller should not be in the Hall of Fame. That's a really weak resume.

Well that's a different discussion. The Basketball Hall of Fame is notoriously one of the easiest ones to get into. However we're just discussing whether DeMar can get in or not, and I think he can. As long as he doesn't get injured it's hard to imagine him not scoring 20K+ points, he'll be at close to 12K by the end of this season, the real question would be whether he can hit 25K or not. He'll probably make a few more all-star games in his career and possibly All-NBA 3rd team, although that will be very tricky with the insane number of good guards. Curry, Westbrook, Harden and CP3 are gonna get in before him every year.

He needs more playoff runs with the Raptors, and needs to actually have a few series where he looks great against a team that we beat. Like the Cleveland production in a winning series.

The greatest Raptor of all-time branding will help him. Again that debate isn't really so much about who was actually the best player at their peak (which would obviously be Vince) as opposed to who holds the big cumulative records, had the longevity and was on more winning teams. That is why most people would rank Kobe ahead of Shaq in a greatest Lakers of all-time list (however number 1 would probably be Magic) even though peak Shaq was a better player and when they won those first 3 titles Kobe was clearly the 2nd best player on that team and didn't even do much in the first finals series

- Raptors all-time leader in scoring and games played
- 5+ All-Star Appearances
- A couple All-NBA
- A few eastern conference finals trips
- 20K or 25K points club
- Team USA Gold Medalist

Will get him in imo.

[Scraptor]

You just convinced me that Reggie Miller should not be in the Hall of Fame. That's a really weak resume.

Hall of Fame's like the MVP: means different things to different people. Reggie was an icon of 90s basketball. He is the face of the Pacers franchise and was more famous than some superior basketball players. To me, that's Hall-of-Fame worthy, because it's not just about raw stats, it's about the story of an entire career.

If DeMar can start coming up big in the playoffs in the clutch he definitely has a shot, but I think it'll be tougher because he doesn't have a distinguishing skill like Reggie, who for a time was consider the GOAT shooter.

[Lupe]

Hall of Fame's like the MVP: means different things to different people. Reggie was an icon of 90s basketball. He is the face of the Pacers franchise and was more famous than some superior basketball players. To me, that's Hall-of-Fame worthy, because it's not just about raw stats, it's about the story of an entire career.

If DeMar can start coming up big in the playoffs in the clutch he definitely has a shot, but I think it'll be tougher because he doesn't have a distinguishing skill like Reggie, who for a time was consider the GOAT shooter.

Yeah your last point is a good one and one that hurts the Reggie comparison a fair bit. HOF is a lot about narratives and Reggie was sort of the villain of the 90s trying to thwart the Knicks and Bulls as the main rival to those teams. He also was the best shooter of his era too like you said.

[Scraptor]

Nice to see DeMar still has a good relationship with BC. Committing to DeMar was one of the better things BC did during his time here.

“I text him every time I accomplish something in my career, because without him I wouldn’t be nowhere. He had full faith in me,” DeRozan said. “ He didn’t have one foot in, one foot out, that type of thing.

“It’s like he pictured everything now: what I could be, what I could turn myself into being.”

https://theathletic.com/27277/2016/1...e-an-all-star/

[iblastoff]

without lowry, derozan would be terrible.

[KeonClark]

without lowry, derozan would be terrible.

He's still score points, he just wouldn't win any games

[tDotted]

He's still score points, he just wouldn't win any games

Kind of like Cousins

[special1]

without lowry, derozan would be terrible.

I guess i'm the one who has to bring context to the party....

If you guys watch the games you'd notice the rotations are always the same...

Lowry exits with 3-5 mins to go in the first and 3rd Quarters. Demar plays the whole 1st and 3rd Quarters.

Could it be that fatigue may be affecting those numbers?? Lowry comes back in fresh in the 2nd and 4th Quarters when he's playing with the bench units.... Demar is finishing his shift with the bench units......

Also, maybe it takes the bench guys a few minutes to get into the groove of the games and by the time the 2nd and 4th Quarters start, they are more comfortable.....Who knows?

Lowry is amazing.....not trying to take anything away from his usual performances.

Just wanted to add some context to those numbers.

[special1]

P.S.

Without Demar the Raptors would be terrible. Lowry would blow a gasket before Christmas.

I get the efforts to praise one over the other but sometimes you can just appreciate both because we need them both!

They didn't accomplish anything individually until they played TOGETHER. I think even they realize this... which explains why they are like brothers.

[DanH]

P.S.

Without Demar the Raptors would be terrible. Lowry would blow a gasket before Christmas.

I get the efforts to praise one over the other but sometimes you can just appreciate both because we need them both!

They didn't accomplish anything individually until they played TOGETHER. I think even they realize this... which explains why they are like brothers.

This has been my argument for DeRozan's value. Lowry undeniably is the driver of the team's success - everything points to it. DeRozan is a volume scorer (and a very good one) and a decent distributor for a wing, and little else, while Lowry is the engine of the entire team. But Lowry has proven he can't survive in the offence if he has to take on that scoring load. And when you have a guy like Lowry, you do whatever it takes to make him survive, and your team will be really good. DeRozan allows Lowry to do that - his defence is certainly lacklustre, but his improving offensive game is not only allowing him to carry more and more of that offensive load, but to do so with above average efficiency, which means the team's offence (which was already good due to the high efficiency of our bigs and shooters) skyrockets.

At this point it's kind of a given that Lowry is the superstar on this team - but DeRozan's value is higher than ever with Lowry getting further up there in years. It was my entire argument for why the team should give DeRozan the max (give or take) to keep him around.