imanshumpert wrote:
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I've reiterated that DeRozan is not an ideal #1 option (an ideal #1 option wing can drop 25+ppg on mid-high 50s TS%, guys like Kobe, prime Wade, Melo, even Harden). But I think it's actually possible to win with him as the leading scorer (and highest paid player, which he likely will be in 2016).
Generally the difference with a guy like DeRozan is that the rest of the team needs to be stacked. Near all-stars or extremely high level role players in the starting 5, and an elite bench. When you have a guy like Kobe you can get away with having a weaker supporting cast.
EDIT: Tbh, even last year's Spurs were an example of this. Tony Parker, their leading scorer was statistically very similar to DeMar.
Almost the same points per 36, identical oRTG, dRTG and WS/48. Parker was more efficient by TS% and a better passer but he's also a point guard. Points per shot almost exactly the same.Last edited by imanshumpert; Thu Jul 24, 2014, 04:40 PM.
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imanshumpert wrote: View PostWell actually even those were similar in some ways. Both of them upped their efficiency in the playoffs by getting to the FT Line more. Scoring and assists about the same, Melo rebounded better but he's also 6'8 240+, etc. WS/NetRTG better for Melo but likely because his team as a whole performed better in the playoffs.
Melo:
27-6-4
56.4 TS%
1.35 PPS
DeRozan:
24-4-4
55 TS%
1.43 PPS
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DanH wrote: View PostI like the bit where you emphasize the stats that make them most similar, and put in a one liner writing off the differences in the more important and impactful stats like overall performance (WS) and impact on the team (net rating). And that you didn't show how different - just noted that they were "better." Melo had a .201 WS/48 and a +8 net rating - that's elite. DD had a .136 WS/48 and a +2 rating. That's above average. Worlds apart. And I really like that you assume Melo's better overall stats were a result of his team's better play, rather than a cause of said better play.
oRTG and dRTG (which are also related with win shares) ARE affected significantly by your team's performance.
Yeah DeRozan's net RTG in the playoffs last year was +2, the Raptors was only +3.8
Yeah Melo had a +8 net RTG in the playoffs in 2008-09, but the Nuggets net rating was +9.6
I didn't just conveniently leave it out, team performance absolutely, MUST be considered here. Thinking otherwise is foolish and stupid to say the least.
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mcHAPPY wrote: View Post*repetitive headshakes*
Is this really happening?
It seems like if you have a really, really good team around DD, but who is still your best player, you can be successful.
That's literally the only point that was made, and it's really not that far fetched."Bruno?
Heh, if he is in the D-league still in a few years I will be surprised.
He's terrible."
-Superjudge, 7/23
Hope you're wrong.
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stooley wrote: View PostI don't really understand where you guys are coming from to be honest.
It seems like if you have a really, really good team around DD, but who is still your best player, you can be successful.
That's literally the only point that was made, and it's really not that far fetched.
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stooley wrote: View PostI don't really understand where you guys are coming from to be honest.
It seems like if you have a really, really good team around DD, but who is still your best player, you can be successful.
That's literally the only point that was made, and it's really not that far fetched."Both teams played hard my man" - Sheed
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MACK11 wrote: View PostI don't know what McHappy's opinion on this is but I for one cannot see us being a contender ala OKC, SAS, MIA(with LBJ) with DeRozan being our best player, DD's ideal role is 2nd option. If we had someone like KD or another superstar player on his team DD's shooting % and his overall game would flourish because he is not the top gun.
KHD wrote: View PostDid I just see a statistical comparison of Derozan to Tony Parker used as an argument point? God I hate the offseason.
Which is actually a pretty good comp (as far as much better players go), since if you paint their games in broad strokes, they look very similar.
Volume scorers who play subpar defense."Bruno?
Heh, if he is in the D-league still in a few years I will be surprised.
He's terrible."
-Superjudge, 7/23
Hope you're wrong.
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DanH wrote: View PostI like the bit where you emphasize the stats that make them most similar, and put in a one liner writing off the differences in the more important and impactful stats like overall performance (WS) and impact on the team (net rating). And that you didn't show how different - just noted that they were "better." Melo had a .201 WS/48 and a +8 net rating - that's elite. DD had a .136 WS/48 and a +2 rating. That's above average. Worlds apart. And I really like that you assume Melo's better overall stats were a result of his team's better play, rather than a cause of said better play.
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FoxMachine wrote: View PostHis forte is cherry picking stats to suit whatever point he is trying to make. I thought everyone knew that by now.
The net rating does seem very easy to explain away, since Melo was under his team's overall performance by almost the exact same amount as DD.
I'll look into WS, to try and figure out what's going on there, because the stat is based on boxscores, so it should be fairly easily explainable and it may be that in this specific circumstance, it is highlighting something critical or misrepresenting worth.
edit:
So for Anthony, in the playoffs, at the age of 24, I see:
a greater usg% by about 3%
about double the steals per 100 possessions
3.1 vs. 3.4 turnovers per 100 possessions (so again, slightly in Anthony's favour)
a marginally better assist rate and a marginally better rebound rate
a TS% of .564 which is slightly higher than DD's at .550, and this stat sums up Anthony's better 3p%, although that may have an effect of his teammates as well (being able to better stretch the floor)
edit again:
So I'm thinking that WS adjusts for league average, as well. So I'm thinking that the Nuggets performance while Anthony was on the court may have been further above league average than the Raptors' performance with DD on the court.
So again, this may raise other questions, like, obviously the league has changed a lot since then, is an mid range player like DD still effective, but the box scores are nearly identical.Last edited by stooley; Thu Jul 24, 2014, 08:58 PM."Bruno?
Heh, if he is in the D-league still in a few years I will be surprised.
He's terrible."
-Superjudge, 7/23
Hope you're wrong.
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imanshumpert wrote: View PostmcHAPPY likes criticizing other people's opinions, but if you do a quick forum search on his past posts you can see that his opinions/predictions are almost always wrong.
Like a broken clock I'm right twice a day.
Don't toss dirt now, friend. Remember I'm smrt.
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