Everything Derozan

[golden]

Plus the endorsement opportunities in LA or NY would blow his current ones out of the water.

DeMar taking less than the max and staying is about as clear a sign of loyalty as you'll get with a player his age/status.

I have no numbers on this, but I would wager that Lowry makes equal or better endorsements as a leading face of basketball in Canada to rival what any major US local market can provide. Demar doesn't strike me as that type of marketable personality or one to really seek out endorsements that aggressively.

“I play in Canada and it’s a big market, and there’s a lot of deals that are thrown at you,” Lowry said at a news conference announcing the partnership. “When you’re an all star you get a lot more attention (than in the past).”

https://www.thestar.com/business/spo...chek-deal.html

Partnerships with shoe and sports nutrition companies are common for pro athletes, but deals with financial institutions are rare, though retired NBA star Steve Nash has partnered with Tangerine Bank since 2009, when it was still ING.

“With shoes and apparel it’s already been done, but for a bank it’s pretty amazing,” Widdis said. “They’re walking the talk. They’re speaking to the 19-year-old kid at Oakwood Collegiate who might want to go to their
bank.”

https://www.thestar.com/sports/baske...-with-bmo.html

But jeezus, man. I love Demar and have backed him on this site, repeatedly. But the backlash for saying out loud the pros & cons that Demar and his agent likely are and should be considering is getting ridiculous.

[SkywalkerAC]

Beal being worth more than DeMar is kind of funny considering he's never posted a WS/48 over league average and just managed to squeak past the league average PER of 15 for the first time this season. Even his impact stats are mostly neutral, just like DD's.

Not to mention injuries (Or is that taken into account by win shares?)

[DanH]

I have no numbers on this, but I would wager that Lowry makes equal or better endorsements as a leading face of basketball in Canada to rival what any major US local market can provide. Demar doesn't strike me as that type of marketable personality or one to really seek out endorsements that aggressively.



https://www.thestar.com/business/spo...chek-deal.html



https://www.thestar.com/sports/baske...-with-bmo.html

But jeezus, man. I love Demar and have backed him on this site, repeatedly. But the backlash for saying out loud the pros & cons that Demar and his agent likely are and should be considering is getting ridiculous.

Is what I'm saying backlash?

I'm just saying, as much as it makes financial sense, it almost always makes more sense financially to stay and players leave anyway. Even from winning programs. It's 29:1 odds in terms of the ideal location being the one you are at already. I don't think there's any harm in recognizing that for DeRozan, loyalty was a big factor in his decision. Not the only factor, of course. But just looking around the NBA right now at the various examples of how rare loyalty in any from is in the NBA, it's worth mentioning here.

[golden]

Is what I'm saying backlash?

I'm just saying, as much as it makes financial sense, it almost always makes more sense financially to stay and players leave anyway. Even from winning programs. It's 29:1 odds in terms of the ideal location being the one you are at already. I don't think there's any harm in recognizing that for DeRozan, loyalty was a big factor in his decision. Not the only factor, of course. But just looking around the NBA right now at the various examples of how rare loyalty in any from is in the NBA, it's worth mentioning here.

Loyalty fully recognized and kudos for you being reasonable and acknowledging that money + winning situation also plays a big part to make re-signing more a no-brainer for DD than any magnanimous gesture of sacrifice. Sure, he could get full max from the Lakers or Philly, but that's still a long rebuild and he had been quoted saying he didn't want to do that.

In fact, the only other team that I can think of that could offer a similar situation as the Raptors would have been the LA Clippers, with the added bonus of being home. But the Clips never really made Demar a top priority which perhaps speaks volumes to Demar's true market value for a max salary +contender situation. Instead the Clips chased Durant with almost no real chance (perhaps that insulted DD?) and then quickly blew up that cap space with Doc Rivers handing out $35M allowance money to Austin Rivers (side note: how effed up are those optics?)

And I don't get the "loyalty is rare" comment. At least half or more of the top FAs re-signed with their existing teams. Although with the money skyrocketing, you could definitely see a trend where guys don't mind forgoing the security of the 5th year for a chance at a ring, like Durant did.

[S.R.]

I don't know where this straw man "I'm sick of people saying DeMar just stayed here because he's loyal and not because of business!" opinion sprang up from in the last couple of pages. I haven't read anything like that, but maybe I missed half a dozen posts somewhere that failed to acknowledge that a major part of this discussion is the fact that DeMar just signed the biggest contract in franchise history. I mean it's easy to forget, I guess?

Also funny that in this same forum we're still bitching about Vince leaving. Almost 12 years ago. And Bosh (who left at the exact point in his career that DeMar is at this summer) leaving. And T-Mac leaving. And Durant is getting mocked by a couple of people here for leaving OKC.

There's no need to either understate the loyalty angle, overstate the loyalty angle, or create a false dichotomy between "loyalty" and "business" to rail against. All anybody ever said is loyalty a thing, and DeMar has it, and we're benefiting from it. The money is a thing too, and it's been talked about a ton over the past couple of days and will continue to be.

One error that definitely needs to be corrected is the suggestion that DeMar just started acting loyal as a lead-up to negotiations. You can't argue the fact that the guy has been reppin' the city for 7 years straight without complaint. I respect that without feeling the need to contextualize by offering several criticisms.

[DanH]

Loyalty fully recognized and kudos for you being reasonable and acknowledging that money + winning situation also plays a big part to make re-signing more a no-brainer for DD than any magnanimous gesture of sacrifice. Sure, he could get full max from the Lakers or Philly, but that's still a long rebuild and he had been quoted saying he didn't want to do that.

In fact, the only other team that I can think of that could offer a similar situation as the Raptors would have been the LA Clippers, with the added bonus of being home. But the Clips never really made Demar a top priority which perhaps speaks volumes to Demar's true market value for a max salary +contender situation. Instead the Clips chased Durant with almost no real chance (perhaps that insulted DD?) and then quickly blew up that cap space with Doc Rivers handing out $35M allowance money to Austin Rivers (side note: how effed up are those optics?)

Miami was said to be in the running, and could have cleared a max or very close to it deal for him. That's not exactly a loser situation, and DeRozan didn't even take a meeting with them to find out what his options were. That's the one thing that makes him different than most (I do understand that Batum did a similar thing this off-season). He didn't take meetings. Even Lowry took meetings, and eventually re-signed (with the winning environment and money as major factors, I'm sure). Players don't get to do this dance very often, and to this point in DeMar's career he's had one opportunity to do so, and turned it down.

As for the Rivers optics, yeah, everything always ends up complicated when family is involved. Just look at how fast the Morris situation deteriorated in PHX. Best to avoid if possible.

[Letter N]

One error that definitely needs to be corrected is the suggestion that DeMar just started acting loyal as a lead-up to negotiations. You can't argue the fact that the guy has been reppin' the city for 7 years straight without complaint. I respect that without feeling the need to contextualize by offering several criticisms.

So true, the one thing you can't take away from Derozan is that he's been bigging up the city since the day he got drafted. At first it came off as fake to me, because I basically said what the hell does some kid from Compton know about Toronto that makes him say he loves it so much only after one visit for a workout, but for years now he's sang the same tune, so either he's a consummate professional (which isn't a bad thing) bordering on being excessive or he truly loves Toronto and the Raptors organization.

[3inthekeon]

Just spitballing here, but maybe they project Beal for more growth than DeMar because they're accounting for career minutes played, and Beal has played less than half of DeMar's minutes?

They use VORP - Beal has almost as much as DD in half the minutes. What it doesn't take into account are the reasons for Beal having so many fewer minutes.
Would make little or no difference in a case like Paul George where hi injury was a freak, with seemingly no residual effects. Beal's may well be chronic - this is not taken into account whatsoever.

[golden]

Miami was said to be in the running, and could have cleared a max or very close to it deal for him. That's not exactly a loser situation, and DeRozan didn't even take a meeting with them to find out what his options were. That's the one thing that makes him different than most (I do understand that Batum did a similar thing this off-season). He didn't take meetings. Even Lowry took meetings, and eventually re-signed (with the winning environment and money as major factors, I'm sure). Players don't get to do this dance very often, and to this point in DeMar's career he's had one opportunity to do so, and turned it down.

As for the Rivers optics, yeah, everything always ends up complicated when family is involved. Just look at how fast the Morris situation deteriorated in PHX. Best to avoid if possible.

But again, just like the Clippers, Miami was chasing Durant. We'll never know how serious the Heat were about DD, but track record seems to indicate that if Pat Riley wants a meeting with you, Pat Riley gets a meeting with you. Even so, not sure if Wade and Demar would have been a great fit, tbh.

[DanH]

They use VORP - Beal has almost as much as DD in half the minutes. What it doesn't take into account are the reasons for Beal having so many fewer minutes.
Would make little or no difference in a case like Paul George where hi injury was a freak, with seemingly no residual effects. Beal's may well be chronic - this is not taken into account whatsoever.

Yeah, so not only do they not account for injuries potentially being an issue, they also use only one statistic (VORP, build off of RPM I believe) to make their judgments.

[DanH]

But again, just like the Clippers, Miami was chasing Durant. We'll never know how serious the Heat were about DD, but track record seems to indicate that if Pat Riley wants a meeting with you, Pat Riley gets a meeting with you. Even so, not sure if Wade and Demar would have been a great fit, tbh.

We do know for sure that Miami was calling for a meeting with DeMar right away (as sure as anything is based on reports). Reports were that MIA, DAL, LAL and PHI were lined up for meetings if DD didn't immediately sign on the dotted line. And of course he did.

And it would have been for DeMar to replace Wade, unless Wade was going to take a discount (all signs say no on this one).

[MixxAOR]

I bet this thread will reach 2000 by the end of his new contract

[3inthekeon]

Yeah, so not only do they not account for injuries potentially being an issue, they also use only one statistic (VORP, build off of RPM I believe) to make their judgments.

I think VORP is built off Box +/- at bbref.

[golden]

I bet this thread will reach 2000 by the end of his new contract

Safe bet. The last 500 pages have been added in less than a year.

[DanH]

I think VORP is built off Box +/- at bbref.

Yeah, and Box +/- is a regression of box score stats to RPM. You are right, though. BPM it is.