Everything Derozan

[Raptorsnz]

I don't think that's it at all man. For me I don't like how it's used as rhetoric seemingly for the purpose of flaming DeRo supporters and lumping them into "fanboy" status.


This is coming from someone who tends to agree with your opinions on DeRo (i.e. he needs to play more team ball and within the "system", team plays better when he doesn't try to do too much on his own, too many unnecessarily difficult shots etc etc).

That's exactly why I personally hate it

[mcHAPPY]

I don't think that's it at all man. For me I don't like how it's used as rhetoric seemingly for the purpose of flaming DeRo supporters and lumping them into "fanboy" status.

This is coming from someone who tends to agree with your opinions on DeRo (i.e. he needs to play more team ball and within the "system", team plays better when he doesn't try to do too much on his own, too many unnecessarily difficult shots etc etc).

The intent and its interpretation are clearly different things.

You'll notice I have not used the term since I said I'd stop after it became apparent the intent and interpretation were in conflict.

Many others, including some of DeRozan's biggest fans, have continued its use in celebratory and mocking fashion.

chico has an axe to grind. His interpretation speaks to a much larger issue with the creator than anything else.


I find it interesting the "DOD" and "fanboy" get all the outrage but there are quite a few of us labelled "hater" in these parts without peep. It is also extremely interesting that around that time when "DOD" began, a poster who agreed with my view was called something to the effect of a "mcHAPPY dick rider" by the biggest opponent to the phrase, chico.... yet that is let slide. You'll have to excuse my confusion on the inconsistencies in moderation. I just hope this is not another one of my posts that disappear.

[Doc]

*sigh*

Things appear to be getting ridiculous once again.

I suggest certain members use the ignore option here. Might save some people's sanity.

[chico]

The intent and its interpretation are clearly different things.

You'll notice I have not used the term since I said I'd stop after it became apparent the intent and interpretation were in conflict.

Many others, including some of DeRozan's biggest fans, have continued its use in celebratory and mocking fashion.

chico has an axe to grind. His interpretation speaks to a much larger issue with the creator than anything else.


I find it interesting the "DOD" and "fanboy" get all the outrage but there are quite a few of us labelled "hater" in these parts without peep. It is also extremely interesting that around that time when "DOD" began, a poster who agreed with my view was called something to the effect of a "mcHAPPY dick rider" by the biggest opponent to the phrase, chico.... yet that is let slide. You'll have to excuse my confusion on the inconsistencies in moderation. I just hope this is not another one of my posts that disappear.

oh gawd, will it ever end? Yes, you're holier than me. Does that make you mcHAPPY? sheeesh

That said, "chico has an axe to grind.". I have an axe to grind? Aside from the boohoo spirit, talk about the pot calling the kettle black. Wow. But yeah,m oh holy one.

" It is also extremely interesting that around that time when "DOD" began, a poster who agreed with my view was called something to the effect of a "mcHAPPY dick rider" by the biggest opponent to the phrase, chico.... yet that is let slide. You'll have to excuse my confusion on the inconsistencies in moderation."

Yeah, I agree. That poster calls people "fucking idiot", more than once, and apparently never gets spoken to about, but I call him "dickrider" and someone whines to the mods and I get threatened with banishment. You're told to stop the DOD crap, and you publicly say "NO, I WON"T STOP", and carry on, over and over again. Good point, oh holy one.

[Doc]

I'll say this again, please ignore one another because this back and forth has to stop soon. And if it doesn't, then timeouts will be handed out ONCE AGAIN. I don't want to have to treat grown adults like children, but for the sake of this forum, the pissing matches have to stop now. It's beyond idiotic.

So please, please .... set your egos or whatever it this might be aside and move on.

[.40 Cal Flakes]

The intent and its interpretation are clearly different things.

1.You'll notice I have not used the term since I said I'd stop after it became apparent the intent and interpretation were in conflict.

Many others, including some of DeRozan's biggest fans, have continued its use in celebratory and mocking fashion.

chico has an axe to grind. His interpretation speaks to a much larger issue with the creator than anything else.


2.I find it interesting the "DOD" and "fanboy" get all the outrage but there are quite a few of us labelled "hater" in these parts without peep. 3.It is also extremely interesting that around that time when "DOD" began, a poster who agreed with my view was called something to the effect of a "mcHAPPY dick rider" by the biggest opponent to the phrase, chico.... yet that is let slide. You'll have to excuse my confusion on the inconsistencies in moderation. I just hope this is not another one of my posts that disappear.

1.If that's the case, then it's probably a good idea the term isn't used as the intent and interpretation are being confused.

2.I don't like the term hater either. Members should be able to criticize any player freely without being called a "hater". I think some posters may take issue when it appears that only Dero's faults are brought up by his critics while ignoring his strengths in any particular game. Regardless calling out hater doesn't serve any purpose much the same as labelling someone DOD.

3.That is simply not the case my man. Not to put chico on blast but he was warned and discussions were had regarding that. I personally removed the posts with the infractions. By no means did any of that slide.

At the end of the day I think we all need to chill and not take things too personally. After all raptors are at the top of the east and about to go to 6-1! Woohoo! Good time to be a Raptors fan!

[mcHAPPY]

1.If that's the case, then it's probably a good idea the term isn't used as the intent and interpretation are being confused.

2.I don't like the term hater either. Members should be able to criticize any player freely without being called a "hater". I think some posters may take issue when it appears that only Dero's faults are brought up by his critics while ignoring his strengths in any particular game. Regardless calling out hater doesn't serve any purpose much the same as labelling someone DOD.

3.That is simply not the case my man. Not to put chico on blast but he was warned and discussions were had regarding that. I personally removed the posts with the infractions. By no means did any of that slide.

At the end of the day I think we all need to chill and not take things too personally. After all raptors are at the top of the east and about to go to 6-1! Woohoo! Good time to be a Raptors fan!

You're right on all accounts.

My bad on the areas where I was incorrect.

[mcHAPPY]

*sigh*

Things appear to be getting ridiculous once again.

I suggest certain members use the ignore option here. Might save some people's sanity.

I'll say this again, please ignore one another because this back and forth has to stop soon. And if it doesn't, then timeouts will be handed out ONCE AGAIN. I don't want to have to treat grown adults like children, but for the sake of this forum, the pissing matches have to stop now. It's beyond idiotic.

So please, please .... set your egos or whatever it this might be aside and move on.

Message received.

I'm putting a new filter in place with regards to comments: is this Raptor related or member related? Member related won't be posted. Call me on it if I forget in future.

golden, I believe, was the one who changed my tune on DeRozan last year and the back and forth the last two hours is the best Raptor discussion I've had on the season.

[Doc]

We're all here for the same reason guys. We're all passionate fans who love this franchise. You don't have to like one another, but I think we can all coexist using the same platform here on the boards and not have to flame one another. You're intelligent fellas, I trust that you can fix it. Whether its using the ignore feature or trying to work out your differences in conversation.

Let's all have a drink! Because after all, I just turned 40 the other day and officially sold my house yesterday. So I need to let loose a little.

[007]

.

[Doc]

[mcHAPPY]

In an attempt to get thread back on track.....

A mix of really good and really bad teams from last season: Boston, Dallas, Portland, Philly, Indy, Orlando, Cleveland. Link is below - you have to switch to Advanced Log and sort by USG% to view it properly.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/...l_advanced::19

Just to be a dick, if you take the top 12 games of his usage last year, then the Raptors are 6-6. lol - but that is not the point of my reply and hopefully we don't get sidetracked.



DeRozan's average was 30.6.

If you take the games where he was over his usage average, a total of 22 games, the Raptors were 11-11.

If you take the games where he was at his average or just below, lets say the 25-30 usage rate, the Raptors were 24-10; a .706 win% and good for 58 wins.




With all that said, ball dominant in the terms I attempted to use it doesn't reflect usage. You can have a high usage without being ball dominant. Usage, by definition at Basketball-Reference.com, is estimate of percentage of team plays used by a player while on the floor. Ball dominant, in the terms I meant, was to reflect ball stopping, aimless dribble, or waving teammates off for ISO/hero ball. You can have an extremely high usage out of set plays, coming off screens, or pick and rolls.


It would appear DeRozan's sweet spot for usage, in terms of Raptor wins, is around 25-30.




Interesting enough the usage stats for the Boston and Washington game reflect what I've been saying. Washington usage lowest of the season at 26.3 and the Boston game was highest of the season at 34.4.

[enlightenment]

In an attempt to get thread back on track.....




Just to be a dick, if you take the top 12 games of his usage last year, then the Raptors are 6-6. lol - but that is not the point of my reply and hopefully we don't get sidetracked.



DeRozan's average was 30.6.

If you take the games where he was over his usage average, a total of 22 games, the Raptors were 11-11.

If you take the games where he was at his average or just below, lets say the 25-30 usage rate, the Raptors were 24-10; a .706 win% and good for 58 wins.




With all that said, ball dominant in the terms I attempted to use it doesn't reflect usage. You can have a high usage without being ball dominant. Usage, by definition at Basketball-Reference.com, is estimate of percentage of team plays used by a player while on the floor. Ball dominant, in the terms I meant, was to reflect ball stopping, aimless dribble, or waving teammates off for ISO/hero ball. You can have an extremely high usage out of set plays, coming off screens, or pick and rolls.


It would appear DeRozan's sweet spot for usage, in terms of Raptor wins, is around 25-30.




Interesting enough the usage stats for the Boston and Washington game reflect what I've been saying. Washington usage lowest of the season at 26.3 and the Boston game was highest of the season at 34.4.

Could be another correlation, games where we are losing are games where derozan HAS to take over (Kobes 81), versus games where we are ahead, Derozan doesn't need to be used as much

[MACK11]

Raptors win Philly Loses

Its a win-win situation for everyone

[golden]

In an attempt to get thread back on track.....




Just to be a dick, if you take the top 12 games of his usage last year, then the Raptors are 6-6. lol - but that is not the point of my reply and hopefully we don't get sidetracked.



DeRozan's average was 30.6.

If you take the games where he was over his usage average, a total of 22 games, the Raptors were 11-11.

If you take the games where he was at his average or just below, lets say the 25-30 usage rate, the Raptors were 24-10; a .706 win% and good for 58 wins.




With all that said, ball dominant in the terms I attempted to use it doesn't reflect usage. You can have a high usage without being ball dominant. Usage, by definition at Basketball-Reference.com, is estimate of percentage of team plays used by a player while on the floor. Ball dominant, in the terms I meant, was to reflect ball stopping, aimless dribble, or waving teammates off for ISO/hero ball. You can have an extremely high usage out of set plays, coming off screens, or pick and rolls.


It would appear DeRozan's sweet spot for usage, in terms of Raptor wins, is around 25-30.




Interesting enough the usage stats for the Boston and Washington game reflect what I've been saying. Washington usage lowest of the season at 26.3 and the Boston game was highest of the season at 34.4.

Busted me cherry picking stats, lol.

Anyway, I can't really disagree with any of this. Only guys like Jordan and Lebron should be over 30% usage on a regular basis. DD was at 28% last year, with 110 ORTG, which was awesome. I think I'm commenting more on the offense itself, which seems to encourage high usage, creating off the dribble, from the wings & guards.

I don't think the offense prioritizes ball movement for open shots (e.g. Ross), and Casey loses trust in JV pretty quickly, so who does that leave? Lowry, DD and Amir - and you don't run plays for Amir? And the over-usage doesn't just apply to DD either. I think it applies to Vasquez and Rudy Gay before that and Lowry at times. Lou Wiliams has a tremendous handle, so this actually plays to his strength, but that type of offense makes it hard for other players (e.g. Vasquez and Patterson) to get into any kind of offensive rhythm.

Personally, like you, I'd prefer a more balanced attack, with more plays called for Ross and especially JV as the first options.