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  • 3inthekeon wrote: View Post
    Last year "disloyalty" got Demarre Carroll on the Raptors roster.
    Actually, it was more like the Hawks having to decide between Millsap and Carroll, and not willing or able to go over the cap to sign both. Loyalty wasn't really an option for Carroll, unless he was willing to sign for a fraction of his market value.

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    • Scraptor wrote: View Post
      Give me a break. You expected DeMar to take a $16 million pay cut ($9.5 vs 25.2) in the prime of his career after being underpaid as a two-time all-star?

      Would you take a 60% pay cut for a year? Didn't think so.

      And then there's the security. He's not a LeBron or a KD. If he gets a severe injury, no one is going to offer him another big deal. Would you take a one year deal at a 60% pay cut with the chance that you might miss out on over $100 million? Didn't think so.

      DeMar can't win with you guys, mostly because you hate his game and let it distort your common sense.

      If he walks he's disloyal and was just faking his love for the city (as mcHappy claimed last year).
      If he stays and gets paid anything but a massive pay cut he's greedy.

      The guy has done nothing but rep the city for seven years, was a total professional, not a single complaint, tranformed himself from a raw dunker to a two-time all-star through sheer effort and willpower, helped get us as deep in the playoffs as we've ever gotten, and when given the opportunity to leave for brighter lights in a big city, he stayed. Unlike Vince, unlike Bosh. And you still shit on his character. You make me sick.
      I clearly stated that I didn't expect him to take a paycut, nor would I. But the 'loyalty and nothing else' narrative is also silly. He took the best offer out there for him at the time. The good teams were chasing Durant! They weren't going to be courting him.

      He's been a good citizen and player, but I think that only gets you so far. At some point, how good he is is just as relevant as how loyal he is. The latter question has a clear answer, the former question is much more murky.
      twitter.com/anthonysmdoyle

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      • Barolt wrote: View Post
        I clearly stated that I didn't expect him to take a paycut, nor would I. But the 'loyalty and nothing else' narrative is also silly. He took the best offer out there for him at the time. The good teams were chasing Durant! They weren't going to be courting him.

        He's been a good citizen and player, but I think that only gets you so far. At some point, how good he is is just as relevant as how loyal he is. The latter question has a clear answer, the former question is much more murky.
        I feel like "The loyalty" narrative seems to be referenced much more often by the side who just want to thumb their nose at it and mock it over any fans who want to give DeRozan extra credit for it.

        DD would have had other options had he choose to play the field during his free agency, but he didn't bother. He signed with Toronto as soon as he possibly could, much like he promised to do during the last few seasons here. He was also compensated very very well, just like so many other free agents this summer. He doesn't need to be held up as some type of philanthropist who made this crazy sacrifice... but it can be considered as loyalty given the context of the modern day NBA.

        But once again some of us go to incredible depths to twist it around and try to turn something completely normal (or even positive) into some type of indictment of him. It's strange, strange behaviour. You don't have to blindly love Derozan or his style of play but at least keep the criticism in the realm of reality.
        Last edited by Fully; Tue Jul 5, 2016, 08:39 AM.

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        • Here's a bit more fuel on the Demar FA deal fire.....

          http://fivethirtyeight.com/features/...cid=538twitter

          Comment


          • Yeah, CARMELO is built on impact stats only, not production stats, so I'd expect DeMar to grade out poorly there.

            The Mozgov chart is hilarious.
            twitter.com/dhackett1565

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            • Barolt wrote: View Post
              I clearly stated that I didn't expect him to take a paycut, nor would I. But the 'loyalty and nothing else' narrative is also silly. He took the best offer out there for him at the time. The good teams were chasing Durant! They weren't going to be courting him.
              Ok Listen up. Demar Derozan was gonna get paid anywhere else, period. I am so tired of all the anger around here about basic basketball operational protocol.

              If you think his "loyalty" stance is BS youre whacked, he could have left for a number of other teams. Assuming Toronto owned this guy, or was a shoe in to keep him is asinine. period.

              You got one of the top 2 guards in the NBA, you had to pay, because they cost a lot. If you believe there was another one available, than thats fine, please elaborate and then explain how it would have been a done deal to sign them. If not, than you don't have an alternate, realistic solution, so really, no argument and youre wasting bandwidth.

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              • Fully wrote: View Post
                I feel like "The loyalty" narrative seems to be referenced much more often by the side who just want to thumb their nose at it and mock it over any fans who want to give DeRozan extra credit for it.

                DD would have had other options had he choose to play the field during his free agency, but he didn't bother. He signed with Toronto as soon as he possibly could, much like he promised to do during the last few seasons here. He was also compensated very very well, just like so many other free agents this summer. He doesn't need to be held up as some type of philanthropist who made this crazy sacrifice... but it can be considered as loyalty given the context of the modern day NBA.

                But once again some of us go to incredible depths to twist it around and try to turn something completely normal (or even positive) into some type of indictment of him. It's strange, strange behaviour. You don't have to blindly love Derozan or his style of play but at least keep the criticism in the realm of reality.
                Well said my friend.

                Comment


                • Superjudge wrote: View Post
                  Ok Listen up. Demar Derozan was gonna get paid anywhere else, period. I am so tired of all the anger around here about basic basketball operational protocol.

                  If you think his "loyalty" stance is BS youre whacked, he could have left for a number of other teams. Assuming Toronto owned this guy, or was a shoe in to keep him is asinine. period.

                  You got one of the top 2 guards in the NBA, you had to pay, because they cost a lot. If you believe there was another one available, than thats fine, please elaborate and then explain how it would have been a done deal to sign them. If not, than you don't have an alternate, realistic solution, so really, no argument and youre wasting bandwidth.
                  Can we not just compromise and say that being 'loyal' and staying in Toronto was also the best business/career decision for Demar and that he got paid more for that loyalty than he could get anywhere else (because Raps could offer the 5th year). And can we also say that paying DD instead of losing him for nothing was also a smart business decision for the Raps - assuming DD keeps up his efficiency from this season and doesn't bomb out in the playoffs again.

                  Being even more loyal would be doing what Wade has done in Miami, which is basically being underpaid by Pat Riley his whole career and never getting a chance to make it up (like Dirk is getting with the Mavs this season).
                  Last edited by golden; Tue Jul 5, 2016, 01:14 PM.

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                  • Fair, but belittling, or insulting DD isn't cool.

                    He could he very happily sitting in LA right now as a Laker. One year means shit when you get paid 25 million a year

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                    • Superjudge wrote: View Post
                      Fair, but belittling, or insulting DD isn't cool.

                      He could he very happily sitting in LA right now as a Laker. One year means shit when you get paid 25 million a year
                      Plus the endorsement opportunities in LA or NY would blow his current ones out of the water.

                      DeMar taking less than the max and staying is about as clear a sign of loyalty as you'll get with a player his age/status.
                      twitter.com/dhackett1565

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                      • Superjudge wrote: View Post
                        Fair, but belittling, or insulting DD isn't cool.

                        He could he very happily sitting in LA right now as a Laker. One year means shit when you get paid 25 million a year
                        There's where I think you're 1000% wrong. If you think Demar would be very happy in LA "teaming up" with their marquee free agent signing Timofey "LOL" Mosgov after just going to the ECF, there's nothing I can tell you. Winning matters.

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                        • golden wrote: View Post
                          Here's a bit more fuel on the Demar FA deal fire.....

                          http://fivethirtyeight.com/features/...cid=538twitter


                          I hate FiveThirtyEight's BS sports stuff. They're all completely fucking wrong.

                          FiveThirtyEight should stick to doing polls and looking at things after the fact, cause they're god awful at these predictions they attempt, at least their sports predictions.

                          Fucking Batum is worth more than Beal and Drummond and Derozan???
                          That's the shit some stat geek says with numbers that completely ignore everything else that matters in an actual game of basketball.

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                          • Beal being worth more than DeMar is kind of funny considering he's never posted a WS/48 over league average and just managed to squeak past the league average PER of 15 for the first time this season. Even his impact stats are mostly neutral, just like DD's.
                            twitter.com/dhackett1565

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                            • DanH wrote: View Post
                              Beal being worth more than DeMar is kind of funny considering he's never posted a WS/48 over league average and just managed to squeak past the league average PER of 15 for the first time this season. Even his impact stats are mostly neutral, just like DD's.
                              Just spitballing here, but maybe they project Beal for more growth than DeMar because they're accounting for career minutes played, and Beal has played less than half of DeMar's minutes?
                              twitter.com/anthonysmdoyle

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                              • Barolt wrote: View Post
                                Just spitballing here, but maybe they project Beal for more growth than DeMar because they're accounting for career minutes played, and Beal has played less than half of DeMar's minutes?
                                Sure. More growth is great, and he'll need a tonne of it to even reach DeMar's level of production.
                                twitter.com/dhackett1565

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